American Rifle Company New Archimedes Action, New Xylo Chassis, and major Mausingfield revision

[Cody S]

pure curiosity here, any of you guys using the ARC mags in a mausingfield and having problems?
mine has fed anything from 6 dasher to x47s and creedmoors flawlessly without modification... really smooth mag too, just goes belly up when dust gets in there. going out on a limb here but did you guys also try cleaning mags?

 

[TSpork]

May’s a week away. Fingers crossed that the Archimedes is on schedule to come out this month

 

[Winny94]

May’s a week away. Fingers crossed that the Archimedes is on schedule to come out this month

I spoke w/ ARC, and as of right now, the Arch is not going to be shipping until June

 

[flyer]

This would be a good time for an ARC update.

A delay is ok for me but I would like to at least think I know what's going on...

 

[LawnMM]

 

[Ledzep]

No need to go around posting selfies...

 

[Kimber.204]

Need I remind you @LawnMM that Sloth was the hero of the Goonies!

Baby Ruth!

It's no uglier than an MPA chassis.

 

[LawnMM]

Makes an MPA look like Salma Hayek

 

[flyer]

You do realize you're looking at a computer rendering with a minimally shaped grip, no wood grain, poor shading and no real cheek piece or butt pad.

And any chassis looks weird if it has no action in it.

The Xylo will look fine.

 

[Winny94]

You do realize you're looking at a computer rendering with a minimally shaped grip, no wood grain, poor shading and no real cheek piece or butt pad.

And any chassis looks weird if it has no action in it.

The Xylo will look fine.

Haha, nah that's exactly what it looks like. I'm a fan personally, but I'm not even sure I'd say that's a rendering because that is identical to the samples I've held.

 

[hereinaz]

This would be a good time for an ARC update.

A delay is ok for me but I would like to at least think I know what's going on...

Spoke with Justin today, he said it looks like June and July for a bunch of preorder Archimedes.

FYI, I sent three bolt heads last week, .223, .308, and mag. They are shipping new ones today.

 

[MarkLeupold]

Spoke with Justin today, he said it looks like June and July for a bunch of preorder Archimedes.

FYI, I sent three bolt heads last week, .223, .308, and mag. They are shipping new ones today.

Let us know how those new bolt heads feel. I want to exchange mine, but I don't have a "problem" with it. I just want a little better feel on close.

 

[Skunkworx]

Let us know how those new bolt heads feel. I want to exchange mine, but I don't have a "problem" with it. I just want a little better feel on close.

I exchanged all of mine, I couldn’t tell any difference in feel

 

[hereinaz]

I am not expecting much. I played with an action with the new bolt head. Honestly couldn't tell much difference, but it had the 25 lb spring. Mine have 16 still.

Maybe with a 25 lb on my old heads it might be worse.

I will let you know though.

 

[LawnMM]

You do realize you're looking at a computer rendering with a minimally shaped grip, no wood grain, poor shading and no real cheek piece or butt pad.

And any chassis looks weird if it has no action in it.

The Xylo will look fine.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[flyer]

Ok, any other facts I should repeat?

 

[karagias]

This would be a good time for an ARC update.

A delay is ok for me but I would like to at least think I know what's going on...

Flyer is correct. This is a good time for an update.

Regarding the Xylo chassis, some design tweaks have been made since Shot Show. These include the following:
1. The grip has been moved aft by about 0.3 inches.
2. The resolution of the cheek piece elevator adjustment has been tripled enabling more precise eyeball placement behind the scope.
3. A lock has been added to the cheek piece elevator in order to eliminate movement to due clearance between parts.
4. An aluminum bad rider will be included because I prefer to use the chassis with it and you probably will too.
5. Ambidexterity will likely be abandoned in favor of a more optimal grip.
5. Still planning on August deliveries

Regarding the both the Mausingfield and Archimedes, deliveries have been delayed but we now expect to start shipping actions this month. When we announced that the Mausingfield would no longer have an integral recoil lug, we immediately received enough negative feedback to make me rethink the matter. So we decided that both the Mausingfield and the Archimedes will have integral recoil lugs but doing so caused a delay. The delay is due to a forging operation that was required to reshape a 1.385" round bar so that a lug can be machined from it. The forged bars are now in heat treatment and will be in the machines on Monday, May 6. The Archimedes receivers will immediately follow the Mausingfield receivers so Archimedes action will begin shipping in June.

The following design changes have been made to the Mausingfield since Shot Show 2019:
1. Integral recoil lug has been added
2. Integral dovetail scope mount has been added enabling direct connection with American Rifle's titanium scope rings, priced at $800 - $1000 per pair. These rings are a favorite among some customers who like high-end Mauser-based hunting rifles.
3. A newly designed Picatinny rail will be included with each action enabling the use of any Picatinny-style scope mounting system. The rail engages the receiver's integrally machined dovetail.
4. The tang of the receiver has been modified to improve stability of a fully retracted bolt. This makes the action a bit easier to run.
5. The bolt stop design has been tweaked to better cooperate with the newly added integral dovetail.

And finally, the Archimedes design. Since this action represents a radical departure from the conventional, I won't go into the details, saving that discussion for a video that we will release before shipping. Instead, I want to address just a couple of key points.
First, your Archimedes will have an integrally machined recoil lug, as mentioned above. The second point pertains to the nature of the bolt cycle and I want customers to know what to expect and why the bolt cycle is as it is.

The bolt rotation of the Archimedes is intentionally limited to 75 degrees in order to provide adequate clearance for your thumb between the bolt knob and the scope . This is important for ergonomics and thus a priority. Theoretically, the Archimedes does not need closing cams machined into the front of the receiver and it certainly does not need an extraction cam machined into the back of the receiver because the pivoting bolt handle solves the extraction problem better than anything else does. However, in my opinion, a closing cam machined into the front of the receiver should be incorporated, and will be, in order to help you force a slightly over-sized cartridge into the chamber. Admittedly, you shouldn't be using slightly over-sized cartridges, but we're all reloaders and we know how things go. The forward cams will accommodate about 0.040" - 0.050" of cartridge protrusion beyond that of a cartridge that is fully inserted into the chamber. That forward cam comes at the price of a little bit of bolt handle lift but it's worth it.

The next, and less important characteristic of the bolt cycle that you should know about pertains to the extractor as it moves forward and encounters a cartridge that was manually placed into the chamber. The extractor will meet the cartridge before the bolt lugs are far enough forward to engage the receiver's closing cams meaning that the closing cams will not help you snap the extractor over the case rim. Instead, you will rely upon just a little bit of bolt inertia to snap the extractor over the case rim. I could have made the closing cams larger in which case they would help, but doing so would come at the price of bolt handle lift and/or cock-on-close. The Archimedes is a 100% cock-on-open action and I want to keep it that way because customers are oddly sensitive to that. They are also desirous of easy bolt handle lift and I want to give them that as well.

Now, all of this is hardly worth mentioning because it is extremely easy to push the bolt forward with enough momentum to snap the extractor over the case rim. In fact, if you are unfamiliar with the details of bolt-action function, and I didn't tell you about this, you'd likely never know what the extractor was doing upon encountering the case rim. But, in the age of social media and YouTube, someone will invariably make a video in which one slowly pushes the bolt up against a cartridge manually placed into the chamber and demonstrates that a push accompanied by a feminine "eh" sound is required to snap the extractor over the cartridge. Either that, or they will demonstrate that the bolt will not close unless it's extractor has snapped over the case rim, and insinuate that something is wrong with the action. So, in anticipation of such non-sense, the characteristics of a properly functioning Archimedes bolt action have been described herein for the ages.

Lastly, regarding the Archimedes, it is a controlled-round-feed action, when feeding cartridges from a magazine, the extractor engages the case rims as they emerge from the magazine making the previous two paragraphs completely moot.

I hope this update helps those who have placed orders and those who are considering placing orders. It's been a busy year but we remain committed to serving you well and strive to improve everything we do so that when you vote with your precious dollars, you vote for American Rifle Company. And for that, we will always be grateful.

Ted

 

[ForgeValley]

Awesome, thank you for the update Ted, looking forward to the Archimedes!

 

[dghboy315]

Thanks @karagias! I have one on pre-order. Ted, any possibility of a folding option for transport (a shorter LOP would also help in transport) and the ability to preset both the long (prone) stock position and short (seated) stock position?

Personally love the look of the Xylo. Very steam punky / Blade Runner-esque.

 

[flyer]

Sounds great but I guess the Archimedes integral lug kind of kills the Barloc option.

The integral lug is a very premium feature so I guess I'll just have to get a shouldered barrel.

Not a complaint, just a slight change of plans.

 

[flyer]

Oh, thanks for the bag rider too.

 

[ForgeValley]

Sounds great but I guess the Archimedes integral lug kind of kills the Barloc option.

The integral lug is a very premium feature so I guess I'll just have to get a shouldered barrel.

Not a complaint, just a slight change of plans.

Barloc is available without a lug, or at least used to be.

 

[Steel head]

But, in the age of social media and YouTube, someone will invariably make a video in which one slowly pushes the bolt up against a cartridge manually placed into the chamber and demonstrates that a push accompanied by a feminine "eh" sound is required to snap the extractor over the cartridge. Either that, or they will demonstrate that the bolt will not close unless it's extractor has snapped over the case rim, and insinuate that something is wrong with the action. So, in anticipation of such non-sense, the characteristics of a properly functioning Archimedes bolt action have been described herein for the ages.

Ted

Lol!

 

[moshek]

“we decided that both the Mausingfield and the Archimedes will have integral recoil lugs but doing so caused a delay. The delay is due to a forging operation...”

I’m looking forward to hearing that our Archimedes pre-orders are shipping pretty soon. The decision for integral recoil lug is very much appreciated, and well worth the short delay.

 

[HOLLYW00D]

Anything new/different with the firing pin assembly in the Archimedes, pertaining to the "light strikes" of the Nucleus with a sub 25# spring, assuming the "ignition system" between the two actions is/was the same?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Now while you guys are playing with forgings, why not make the
Nucleus lug integral?

 

[tomcatfan]

Now while you guys are playing with forgings, why not make the
Nucleus lug integral?

If I had to guess it would be because the nucleus is the least expensive of the three. It’s more expensive to make the integrated lug.

 

[karagias]

Anything new/different with the firing pin assembly in the Archimedes, pertaining to the "light strikes" of the Nucleus with a sub 25# spring, assuming the "ignition system" between the two actions is/was the same?

The Archimedes uses a completely different striker assembly than that of the Nucleus because it must pass through the pivoting bolt handle. That said, lessons learned from the Nucleus will certainly be applied to the Archimedes.

The use of 16 and 19 pound springs within the Nucleus certainly pushed the limit. The 25 pound springs are more tolerant of grease and improper assembly of the striker mechanism. Since then, we have introduced a spring compression tool for the Nucleus and the Mausingfield which makes it much easier to compress the main spring in order to either install or remove the retention nut and washer. Nevertheless, many customers still prefer the 16 pound spring because it makes cycling the bolt easier. We encourage people to buy the spring compression tool by pricing it at only $20. At that price, we're essentially breaking even on it.

The disassembly and reassembly procedure for the Archimedes will have to be the topic of a future video. Its bolt is unlike any other that I am aware of. The energy and the momentum of the Archimedes striker closely matches that of a factory Remington 700 so I don't expect light strikes will be a problem. Archimedes bolt lift is well within acceptable limits even though it is 100% cock-on-open. Bear in mind that the Remington 700s are about 70% cock-on-open and 30% cock-on-close and as such, it is much easier to store the energy required for reliable ignition within the space available. However, that all comes at the price of poor extraction capability and a hard-close which seems to have fallen out of favor among precision rifle competitors. Their heats want what their hearts want so who am I to tell them otherwise. My job is easier when customers understand bolt actions and the many subtleties hidden within.

When choosing a bolt action, one of the most import things to know about is the actions capability to extract a cartridge that is stuck in the chamber. It is perfectly acceptable to design an action with no extraction capability at all, so long as you make it known to your prospective customers that you have done so. I hear many people comment about the ease with which a bolt handle can be lifted but they say nothing of extraction. Almost every characteristic for a reliable and robust bolt cycle will increase the effort required to cycle the bolt. That is inescapable. But the one action that comes the closest to escaping from that rule is the Archimedes because of its pivoting bolt handle. Even so, I still opted to limit the bolt rotation to 75 degrees in order to improve the action ergonomically and doing so came at the price of, you guessed it, bolt lift. So, contrary to what the supporters of Bernie Sander believe, absolutely nothing in this universe is free. The Second Law of Thermodynamic simply does not allow free and nothing that human kind is aware of violates the second law. If public education wasn't such a pathetic failure in this country, maybe we would have a thermodynamically-correct social order instead of politically-correct insanity. Oh no, where is this going? Focus. Oh yeah, bolt actions. They're pretty cool and lots of fun.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Now while you guys are playing with forgings, why not make the
Nucleus lug integral?

I knew someone would ask. Maybe someday, but for now, the Nucleus is what it is and it's also in stock and available for immediate delivery. We have both longs and shorts.

Ted

 

[BurnOut]

Well, kickass! I'm excited about the integral lug on the Archimedes! Further, I'm looking forward to playing around with it because it really does sound like a unique action, and I'm into that sort of thing.

Oh, and what are the odds of convincing you (@karagias) of allowing Archimedes pre-order holders to select their preferred bolt knob at the time that the order is completed/the rest of the money is collected?

 

[flyer]

I don't see so much need for an integral lug Nucleus. I would rather see a cost reduced Mausingfield around the Nucleus price point, no integral lug, no integral rail, nitride, 90° throw but still with the big claw extractor, CRF, inertial ejector and Nucleus style bolt stop.

 

[Ledzep]

Any plans to make Aluminum (or NOT $800-1000) direct mount rings for the new Mausingfield?

 

[TSpork]

@karagias

Thank you for the update! That’s all very exciting. We haven’t heard much about the Archimedes lately, so this is great update. Can’t wait for it (first custom). That’s awesome to hear that it now has an integral recoil lug

Admittedly one of the things I was most worried about was the light strike issues. But it seems like I don’t have much to worry about anymore.

Getting more and more excited to get this in hand now

 

[karagias]

Thanks @karagias! I have one on pre-order. Ted, any possibility of a folding option for transport (a shorter LOP would also help in transport) and the ability to preset both the long (prone) stock position and short (seated) stock position?

Personally love the look of the Xylo. Very steam punky / Blade Runner-esque.

Thanks. It certainly looks better in real life. To me, a rifle is a machine and as such, it is not a home for superfluous features. That which is required is there, and that which is not, is not. I find most modern firearm designs poorly executed but I am also looking through tens of thousand of hours of CAD and design experience. I can immediately see where other designers focused their efforts, where they struggled, and where they just didn't know any better.

The design of the Xylo chassis certainly adheres to form following function. Many of the people who touched it at Shot Show indicated that something just felt more correct about it. Keith (friend and collaborator) and I anticipated as much because we focused a great deal of effort on the placement, shape, and function of the parts that your body will contact. And that's a tricky deal because we are looking for an average human solution that will appeal to the largest number of people.

Casting aside the subjective, I can honestly say that the Xylo does not have a functional peer, not yet anyway. Keith and I designed it with an awareness of the products that the Xylo would compete against. We chose the the functions that the Xylo would perform and then executed a design that fulfilled those functions in a manner that was measurably superior to the manner with which our competitors executed the same. The Xylo design is cautious and deliberate.

Ted

 

[chrismartin]

Yes, thanks for the update. Especially the info on the Nucleus striker springs and compression tool.

 

[Chesapeake]

@karagias Thank you for the pleasant surprise on the integrated recoil lug on the Archimedes. I preordered because I believe in your design and engineering values and principles that you have displayed and your follow through on making bold steps in the industry. The Bernie free-lunchers can go to hell. Keep up the good work. I think I speak for a few more than just myself when I say we will keep voting with our dollar for those who move things forward the right way. Thanks again!

 

[Random_Scrub]

Any word on the Barloc? I had intended on using the Archimedes along with the barloc.

 

[karagias]

Any plans to make Aluminum (or NOT $800-1000) direct mount rings for the new Mausingfield?

Yeah, that's come up before. It's just a matter of capacity and the speed with which we can deploy capital assets like machinery. And it's also a matter of how hard I'm willing to work. Willingness to work and age seem to be inversely proportional to one another.

Ted

 

[schmi015]

@karagias Whats your next hat trick? A straight pull action for prs? I'm curious what you think about these and if a straight pull is possible/feasible. The old K31 and the newer blaser are good but I'm curious if ARC could bring something revolutionary to market.

I'm looking forward to my archimedes in the mean time.

German Straight Pull Bolt Action Rifles by Steel Action -

A German company located in Cologne, Germany and called Steel Action makes yet another straight pull bolt action rifle. If you have noticed, the straight pull action is pretty popular in Europe. Not only large companies make rifles utilizing this action but also smaller and newer ones like Steel...

www.thefirearmblog.com

Steel-Action HS - Straight pull rifle

During Instajagd2018 in Schwerin in Germany we hade the oppertunity to try out the new brand of rifles, Steel-Action. It is engineers that earlier worked...

www.facebook.com

http://lynxrifles.fi

 

[Steel head]

@karagias Whats your next hat trick? A straight pull action for prs? I'm curious what you think about these and if a straight pull is possible/feasible. The old K31 and the newer blaser are good but I'm curious if ARC could bring something revolutionary to market.

I'm looking forward to my archimedes in the mean time.

German Straight Pull Bolt Action Rifles by Steel Action -

A German company located in Cologne, Germany and called Steel Action makes yet another straight pull bolt action rifle. If you have noticed, the straight pull action is pretty popular in Europe. Not only large companies make rifles utilizing this action but also smaller and newer ones like Steel...

www.thefirearmblog.com

Steel-Action HS - Straight pull rifle

During Instajagd2018 in Schwerin in Germany we hade the oppertunity to try out the new brand of rifles, Steel-Action. It is engineers that earlier worked...

www.facebook.com

http://lynxrifles.fi

Something like a Heym SR30 would be awesome

 

[karagias]

Any word on the Barloc? I had intended on using the Archimedes along with the barloc.

To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the Barloc. I never was and only designed it reluctantly after people kept asking if it's OK to drill the face of a Mausingfield receiver in order to use the Switch Lug from WTO. Having blown up a few receivers, I never liked the idea of drilling the face so the reply was always, "No, don't drill the face of your Mausingfield."

I'm not crazy about the Barloc because it adds one more element to a system that would otherwise operate in a more reliable manner without it. Some people have reported experiencing zero shifts after striking the barrel against barricades or similar objects. Since learning about those reports, I have struck barrels extremely hard with 2x4s and experienced significant shifts both with and without Barloc so quantifying the effect will be difficult and take more time that we can currently allocate. All that said, we do have customers that use the Barloc and seem to be happy with it. If the utility of replacing barrels using only small hand tools is of value to you and you're willing to pay for it reduced reliability, then I'd say go ahead and buy one, especially if you think that the likelihood of dropping your rifle or subjecting it to a hard hit is low. And to be fair, subjecting a scoped rifle to significant impact is generally a bad idea, with or without a Barloc, because there are many mechanical connections within the rifle that, if impacted, can contribute to zero shifts. Determining the zero shift contribution from each connection is anything but easy, so take care not to subject your rifle to unnecessary impacts.

You can certainly use a Barloc with any of our actions and nearly all others as well, but if you do, I would certainly recommend using the barrel nut version of it. Should you encounter a problem with it or become worried about an unexpected blow to your rifle, you can always remove the Barloc and replace it with a standard barrel nut.

Ted

 

[DoNotReply]

Thanks @karagias! As a new shooter who has been looking around at components for a future custom build it’s nice to see the detail you have been putting out. Pretty sure when I’m ready I will be getting a Nucleus action. But who knows… if people agree with your high opinion/standard of the Archimedes then I may have to push for it. ?

 

[karagias]

@karagias Whats your next hat trick? A straight pull action for prs? I'm curious what you think about these and if a straight pull is possible/feasible. The old K31 and the newer blaser are good but I'm curious if ARC could bring something revolutionary to market.

I'm looking forward to my archimedes in the mean time.

German Straight Pull Bolt Action Rifles by Steel Action -

A German company located in Cologne, Germany and called Steel Action makes yet another straight pull bolt action rifle. If you have noticed, the straight pull action is pretty popular in Europe. Not only large companies make rifles utilizing this action but also smaller and newer ones like Steel...

www.thefirearmblog.com

Steel-Action HS - Straight pull rifle

During Instajagd2018 in Schwerin in Germany we hade the oppertunity to try out the new brand of rifles, Steel-Action. It is engineers that earlier worked...

www.facebook.com

http://lynxrifles.fi

Revolutionary is really hard to do in the firearms industry. Firearms have been around for a long long time and the patent databases all over the world are full of ideas, both good and bad. Beretta will soon, in 2026, celebrate their 500 year anniversary. Think about that. Just 34 years after Columbus was nearly eaten by Haitians, Bartolomeo and friends were making guns for the Venetians and they're still at it today.

Straight pulls are neat but far from revolutionary. Straight pull designs have been around for a while, at least since the Steyr Mannlicher M95 (1895). I bought one a few years back for $85.

I've though about straight pulls but they are inherently more complex than the Mauser derivatives. Less movement isn't necessarily faster movement. Turn-bolts are now both highly engineered and highly evolved making them pretty hard to beat. Sometimes I think that the next major step in firearms must come from the ammo. Imagine a rifle fed through two tubes, one for projectiles and another for propellant, an electronic ignition system, and a camera feeding sighting info to your brain. You'd wear this thing along with the rest of your Iron Man Suit. Just say'in.

Short of revolutionary, there is plenty of opportunity for the refinement of existing designs. That's going to keep people busy for a long time to come.

Ted

 

[BurnOut]

So, in terms of evolutionary rather than revolutionary improvements, what about something along the lines of the Archimedes, but with kind of a twist... instead of 100% cock-on-opening, make it, say, 50% cock-on-open (to REALLY minimize bolt handle lifting force), and the remaining 50% completed by the rearward pivot of the bolt handle. The advantage would be that the same ergonomically advantageous motion that makes the extraction in the Archimedes so robust would be the same motion to finish compressing the firing pin spring.

From an operational perspective, the only downside I can see (though I will readily admit to my amateur status here) is in regard to the ability to re-strike a cartridge that did not fire upon the first drop of the firing pin.

I kinda see this as a hybrid between a turn-bolt and a straight pull, and think that if the guts of the bolt are designed/built correctly, it could be a SUPER fast cycling action.

 

[BeAccurate]

To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the Barloc. I never was and only designed it reluctantly after people kept asking if it's OK to drill the face of a Mausingfield receiver in order to use the Switch Lug from WTO. Having blown up a few receivers, I never liked the idea of drilling the face so the reply was always, "No, don't drill the face of your Mausingfield."

Hahaha, you know. In this industry I know that we, as consumers, like to shit on ourselves a lot for being 'beta testers' and 'test dummies' but it's still a bit, how can I put this, 'galling' to hear a major company's owner outright say that he developed a product he didn't believe in and only because he was peer-pressured in to doing so. It makes it all sound like we were trying to get him to smoke in high school.

I don't know Ted, I do remember your flashy youtube video demonstrating the Barloc and how you sold them like hot cakes for months....

But then again, I also remember the absolute radio silence that came from you and ARC the moment someone raised any questions of return-to-zero

If the utility of replacing barrels using only small hand tools is of value to you and you're willing to pay for its reduced reliability, then I'd say go ahead and buy one...

Hey, don't go calling us retards all at once.

This is pretty rich, though, given how you sold the Barloc and advertised (or at least heavily implied its incredible reliability). Also, FWIW, it's not like our expectations of what the Barloc could do were unreasonable since both AI and now the Vector have the same functionality.


And for what it's worth, some of the ARC fanboys may not get it, but removing a feature that everyone loved (the integral lug) and then being only a month behind promised production schedule because you added it back, isn't really a net victory.


I was a fan of the Mausingfield early on but the lack of CS, the constant feature change for cheaper features (for example going to Nitriding now from DLC even though you bad-mouthed Nitriding to begin with) has me a bit leery.


Either way. I'm glad I held off on a purchase of the nucleus and archimedes and ended up going to a competitor.

 

[flyer]

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Ledzep]

I'd rather see an ARC semi auto than a straight pull. K31's are nice, but they have their own disadvantages.

 

[karagias]

So, in terms of evolutionary rather than revolutionary improvements, what about something along the lines of the Archimedes, but with kind of a twist... instead of 100% cock-on-opening, make it, say, 50% cock-on-open (to REALLY minimize bolt handle lifting force), and the remaining 50% completed by the rearward pivot of the bolt handle. The advantage would be that the same ergonomically advantageous motion that makes the extraction in the Archimedes so robust would be the same motion to finish compressing the firing pin spring.

From an operational perspective, the only downside I can see (though I will readily admit to my amateur status here) is in regard to the ability to re-strike a cartridge that did not fire upon the first drop of the firing pin.

I kinda see this as a hybrid between a turn-bolt and a straight pull, and think that if the guts of the bolt are designed/built correctly, it could be a SUPER fast cycling action.

What you're proposing makes sense conceptually but there are two issues that are immediately apparent to me. First, the second 50% of cocking from the reward pivoting of the handle may take place when the bolt is fully retracted if there was not enough friction between the cartridge and the chamber to hold the bolt in place immediately after it has been rotated to unlock. While it may be OK to do that cocking work on a fully retracted bolt, the bolt cycle may have a significantly different feel from shot to shot depending on the variability of the forces required to extract the cartridges. The shooter would have to make a conscious effort to forcefully pull back on the bolt handle when the bolt was fully retracted to ensure the that bolt is properly cocked for the next shot.

Secondly, deflecting the spring significantly within the confines of an Archimedes bolt is very difficult if not practically impossible. The bolt can certainly be redesign for this purpose but that would require a new action all together. That's doable, but one of the goals of the Archimedes was to keep it within the Rem 700 envelop so that it plays wells with all of the aftermarket goodies.

When designing manually operated guns, it's certainly fun to think of new ways to cycle the action, and I would encourage people to do so. But when the time comes to compare ideas on functional merit, serious respect has to be payed to evolved designs that have stood the test of time. Time is an incredibly effective arbitrator of mechanical design. Let's consider the straight pull actions again. The Steyr M95 predates the Mauser 98 by three years yet the Mauser and its derivatives have ruled the world since 1898. Why is that? I would argue that Mauser has two enormous advantages over the straight pulls, efficiency and simplicity. If a straight pull bolt is to use a rotating bolt head for lockup, then linear motion must be converted to rotation by mean of a helix. After firing a hot load, the case head is forcefully impinging upon the bolt face thereby increasing the friction forces resisting its rotation. Superimpose the helix upon that and one may find it very difficult to retract the bolt. Increasing the lead angle of the helix may alleviate this but that would increase the length of linear motion required to rotate the bolt head for unlocking. With a Mauser style bolt, one simply rotates the bolt by means of lever. But extraction is the next challenge and people have overcome it by smacking the bolt knob with anything available to get the case pop free of the chamber. The Archimedes puts and end to that.

What makes the Archimedes really hard to beat, is that it works with you in a bio-mechanical sense and it performs its function as directly and a simply as they can be performed. Use the leverage of the handle to rotate the bolt against the friction forces of a stuck case. Easy. Use the leverage of the handle, which pivots, to pry the case from the chamber. Easy. This work has to be done and if anyone can think of a simpler and more direct way of doing it, then you have the potential of designing an action that is better than the Archimedes. The Heym SR30 is likely the best challenger because it completely eliminates the bolt rotation. However, I'd need to understand everything else about it to fairly asses it because the actions have to do much more than just extract a cartridge. The Archimedes certainly checks all of the functional boxes and does so with simplicity.

Now, in the spirit of full disclosure, the bolt of the Archimedes is certainly more complex that those of the conventional turn bolts but not much more and I think that the small increase in complexity is justified by the functional enhancement derived from it. In the end, time will tell. It always does.

Ted

 

[flyer]

Complexity is certainly not a virtue but CNC machining makes it a lot easier these days and while the Archimedes bolt is more complex, I have a feeling that it might work out cheaper than a one piece forged bolt.

If it is less expensive and creates an effective lever force for primary extraction, it seems like a big win unless they break.

 

[BurnOut]

I don't know Ted, I do remember your flashy youtube video demonstrating the Barloc and how you sold them like hot cakes for months....

Our memories must be different, because I recall Ted being reluctant to make/offer a hand-tools-only method of barrel swapping, stating that once he gets a rifle set up, he just shoots it and doesn't go swapping barrels, etc... I also recall his position on the Barloc basically being (I'm summarizing here), "I don't understand the driving desire, but this is a more mechanically sound way to accomplish the task". I never perceived Ted to be particularly enthusiastic about the Barloc, and understood that it was offered more in an attempt to meet market demand than anything else.

Regarding the silence after reports of Barloc-equipped guns maintaining/returning to zero after a hard whack on the barrel, they have made no secret about the fact that they haven't had a chance to adequately test it. This makes sense, given that they're a small company trying to get new/revised products out the door. Personally, I have yet to whack a barrel terribly hard against ANYTHING, and I'm not looking to start now... but I understand that accidents happen, and in a perfect world, all of our hardware would deal with any neglect/abuse heaped upon it... but that's just not the case. As such, I do everything I can to treat my rifles like precision instruments rather than shovels, hammers, crutches, boat paddles, or anything OTHER than precision-oriented machines.