- Thread starter SteveC
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Only your barrel can tell you that, and it’s gonna require buying at least a few boxes to test. Black Hills 77gr and Federal Gold Medal Match in 69 or 77gr are going to be kind of the standard for precision. I’d also try some of the new PSA/AAC match loadings in 75gr for a good price, as well as IMI 77gr. Basically, any match type ammo from 68-77gr is worth a shot. Then it comes down to what accuracy you find acceptable for how much it costs.
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Well it's a BA so good chance it won't like anything except for holding a tomato plant erect.
You really need to define your requirements before asking a question like that. Things to consider...
1. What distance do you want the ammo to perform at?
2. What level of accuracy are you looking for (best defined by the average MOA you expect for multi-shot groups)?
3. What kind of target(s) will you be shooting?
4. How much are you willing to spend per round?
After you answer the above questions, you will need to get some samples of recommended ammo typically used for those applications. How the rifle performs with each of those samples should give you the answer on what to stock up on for long term use. What performs best in one rifle may not perform best in another, even if they are built with the exact same parts.
1. What distance do you want the ammo to perform at?
2. What level of accuracy are you looking for (best defined by the average MOA you expect for multi-shot groups)?
3. What kind of target(s) will you be shooting?
4. How much are you willing to spend per round?
After you answer the above questions, you will need to get some samples of recommended ammo typically used for those applications. How the rifle performs with each of those samples should give you the answer on what to stock up on for long term use. What performs best in one rifle may not perform best in another, even if they are built with the exact same parts.
Thanks for the great reply. I didn’t realize that different weights of ammo made such a huge difference in accuracy. Only light stuff is available locally. So that’s what I was shooting. I ordered some and will be trying it. I also hadn’t used the ar 223 much until recently. I put my thermal scope on it and missed a couple coyotes. It’s back on my ar308 now that shoots 1 moa or slightly less consistently. I hope I can find a load that I could get close to 1 moa at up to 250 yds. Before I got the thermal I would be using my 22-250 bolt gun. But it doesn’t have picatinny rail and the ar should do handily once I find out what it likes.
Hornady black bthp 75 and 77 grain pmc smk otm match are on the way to try.
Hornady black bthp 75 and 77 grain pmc smk otm match are on the way to try.
I had already made an order before I saw your post. Thank you
The guy at the lgs told me it was a good one. He didn’t tell me that he meant for tomato stake.
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They are a mid tier barrel and some of them shoot well. If you are looking for precision there are better that are affordable.
Firstly, never trust the guys at your local gun store as they often know very little. Secondly, give the barrel a try before you get too hung up about it. Some people have had excellent luck, others not so much. I believe that BA has a sub-MOA guarantee so if it’s no good then you can can always get a refund.
It's not bullet weight so much as bullet quality. Most heavy bullets happen to be well made match bullets. Most things in the 55-62gr range are blaster quality.
Then everyone gets hung up on weight as the reason for the accuracy difference. There are great match quality light bullets and shitty heavy bullets out there, but they are rare enough that the myth of light bullets being inaccurate persists.
Very true. It’s also true that twist rate CAN have an impact on accuracy with regards to bullet weight. A slow twist barrel like 1:12 will usually not stabilize a long heavy 77gr, and a fast 1:7 might not handle really light stuff as well. There are exceptions of course but that’s the general rule.
I've owned hundreds of rifles, most of them being faster twists and never have I ever had an accuracy issue from shooting light bullets in a fast twist, never. That's fudd folklore. A bullet is stable or it isn't.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and people that have managed to blow up light bullets in a 7 twist, but every one I've ever had shoots quality 55gr bullets great. I've never had a 9 or slower twist, but unstable heavy bullets in a slow twist barrel seems to be settled science, rather than the fast twist/light bullet thing.
I've had light bullet blow ups a total of twice. One was 40gr NBT's in a 7T 223 and the other were either 40 or 50gr vmax in a 8T 22-250. Just spinning them too fast and those are extremely thin bullets. Shot plenty of other light thin jacket bullets from them without issue though and superb accuracy. Blow ups are entirely different from accuracy, it doesn't really count when they don't make it to the target. I probably shot 10K rounds of winchester white box 45gr HP 223 for 7T and 8T rifles.
The ammo came in today and I shot sub moa with Hornady black 75 bthp after I took off the 7.62 suppressor. About 2 moa with it. My Psa 308 loves the suppressor but the ar15 doesn’t
The pmc 77 grain otm was real close to moa. It’s windy today.
At least I figured out the the barrel is ok.
The pmc 77 grain otm was real close to moa. It’s windy today.
At least I figured out the the barrel is ok.
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Good is relative... a BA barrel is good, but as others have mentioned, kind of a hit or miss as far as being accurate.
I would suggest you try some of the PSA / AAC 77gr ammo as well.
Or some of the ADI 55gr SBK, or ADI 69gr at Global Ordnance
After today’s testing I found out that the barrel is ok. I was able to get several good sub moa groups but I am very confused as to how my 7.62 suppressor that works great on my 308 can open up the groups on the 223. It’s a rugged razor with the proprietary rugged muzzle adapter that you screw the can on that and then twist the locking ring. It works great on my 17hmr and my 308.
ADI makes some really good budget friendly ammo. Their 55gr blitzking is very consistent. Every few weeks GO drops the price to .57cpr.
globalordnance.com
globalordnance.com
there is also the aac, but they are not consistent and the QC is not so good.
ADI World Class .223 REM 55 Grain Sierra Blitzking CASE200 UPC: 9332153003173
Global Ordnance. ADI (Australian Munitions). The Sierra® BlitzKing® selected for this load is designed for explosive expansion in varmints and small game with the accuracy of the MatchKing® bullets
globalordnance.com ADI World Class .223 REM 69 Grain Sierra MatchKing CASE200 UPC: 9332153003296
Global Ordnance. ADI (Australian Munitions). Fantastic accurate ammo. It shoots clean and is very accurate out of 3 different SBR rifles.
globalordnance.com there is also the aac, but they are not consistent and the QC is not so good.
I've got Aero P in .223 and .308. Both origionally with BA barrels. On my best day with my best handloads I got 1 MOA with the 308.
I have a 24" fluted Krieger on the way for the .308 along with an EC Tuner brake V2.
My.223, bests group with Black Hills was 1 MOA. This ammo will do better. I have a White Oak Armory barrel going on it today and started loading my own Mk262 M-1.
I'm expecting .75 MOA at worst out of both of them but going for 1/2 MOA. I'll be considering a barrel tuner for the .223.
I have a 24" fluted Krieger on the way for the .308 along with an EC Tuner brake V2.
My.223, bests group with Black Hills was 1 MOA. This ammo will do better. I have a White Oak Armory barrel going on it today and started loading my own Mk262 M-1.
I'm expecting .75 MOA at worst out of both of them but going for 1/2 MOA. I'll be considering a barrel tuner for the .223.
Yes, anything you add to the the muzzle will have an effect, especially a can.
Yup, I mixed my grains up—69gr and 77gr. I guess I was thinking of the .308 choices at 168 and 175!
It's not about the weight of the bullet. It's about the quality of the bullet and what your particular barrel "likes."
55 grain bullet . . .
85 grain bullet . . .
....
Occasionally cheap barrels will shoot decently. More often than not, they won’t. When you buy a barrel, you’re paying for a probability. If you want a high probability that the barrel that you are buying will shoot well, you pay for a top-tier barrel. If you buy a cheap barrel, you’re only paying for a low probability that it will shoot well.
...
With the Hornady black 75 it shot great. I have figured out the the gun and barrel is fine. It is sub moa. I am not a great marksman and it’s a 4.5 lb trigger. The odd part so far is the fact that with the can it will not group worth a crap. Without the can it is definitely accurate enough that I am very pleased. The can is for my 308 and works great.
With the Hornady black 75 it shot great. I have figured out the the gun and barrel is fine. It is sub moa.
...
Yup.
Australian Outback Sierra 55 Grain BlitzKing
When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “Proof Screen Technology”, the Australian Outback Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing load had a muzzle velocity of 2972 FPS with a standard deviation of 20 FPS.
A 10-shot group fired off the bench at a distance of 100 yards from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 223 Remington chamber and a 1:9" twist had an extreme spread of 0.98".
I also fired another 10-shot group of the Australian Outback load from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 5.56mm match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. That group had an extreme spread of 0.92".
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ADI World Class .223 REM 69 Grain Sierra MatchKing CASE200 UPC: 9332153003296
Global Ordnance. ADI (Australian Munitions). Fantastic accurate ammo. It shoots clean and is very accurate out of 3 different SBR rifles.
Another yup!
Australian Outback 69 grain Sierra MatchKing Ammunition
In their 1984 catalog, Sierra Bullets introduced the .22 caliber (0.224”) 69 grain MatchKing HPBT (hollow point boat tail) bullet (#1380). The 69 grain MatchKing was “developed as a target bullet for testing by military teams in the new M16A2 rifle”1 and the bullet became a popular choice for shooters using the AR-15 in High Power Rifle Competition.
While the US military had experimented with “heavy” FMJ (full metal jacket) bullets for the 5.56mm cartridge as far back as the mid-1960s, (the Colt/Federal 5.56mm 68 grain FMJ) the .22 caliber 69 grain MatchKing was the first heavy OTM (open-tip match) bullet that was available to the general public as a reloading component for 223 Remington/5.56mm cartridges. (Hornady’s 68 grain OTM bullet (#2278) wasn’t introduced until approximately two years later.)
Today, several manufacturers are producing factory loaded 223 Remington ammunition seated with the Sierra 69 grain MatchKing. Among those, is Australian Outback, a commercial division of Australian Munitions.
This Australian Outback ammunition is loaded in brass cases. The primer pockets are neither crimped nor sealed. There is no sealant at the case-mouth nor any visible case-mouth crimp. The rounds are charged with a short-cut, extruded powder. The head-stamp reads:
“223 REM ADI”
Through some simple testing, I determined that the 69 grain MatchKing has a specific gravity of approximately 10.2. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the 69 grain MatchKing has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.330 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.169. The same source states that the “recommended twist for optimal performance” of the 69 grain MatchKing “is 1:9.5” or faster.”
Accuracy
I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the Australian Outback 69 grain Sierra MatchKing ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any group-reduction techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).
The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.
All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. The SMOS billet lower receiver used houses a Geissele Hi-Speed National Match trigger.
Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold Competition Series 45x45mm scope adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shield was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.
The Wind Probe.
The test vehicle for this accuracy evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 24” Krieger barrel. The barrel has a 5.56mm Match chamber with a 1:7.7” twist. Prior to firing the Australian Outback 69 grain Sierra MatchKing ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing. That group had an extreme spread of 0.67”.
Four 10-shot groups of the Australian Outback 69 grain Sierra MatchKing ammunition were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads:
0.95”
0.82”
0.69”
0.97
for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 0.86”. The four 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 40-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 40-shot composite group was 0.28”.
The smallest 10-shot group . . .
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It gets pretty tiresome constantly reading posts about only 77gr bullets being accurate. People keep shooting shit 55gr stuff and blaming the bullet weight for some reason, when it's just low quality ammo giving low quality results.
OK, that was a good one. I'll be chuckling to myself all day over that.
