Angle degree indicator mount for NF

[whitenup11]

Im looking into adding this to my scope. there is one the comes with a level and ADI mount. Any thoughts on these things? Is the level really necessary? I can see where the ADI can come in real handy i certain situation, but I feel the level something NF can sell for more money. thoughts???

 

[zjmccauley]

Id say it's completely necessary. If you've ever zeroed off bipods and then shot off a bench and the zero appeared off, there's an example.

 

[whitenup11]

Id say it's completely necessary. If you've ever zeroed off bipods and then shot off a bench and the zero appeared off, there's an example.

ok, so what you are saying is that the level really helps when zeroing in a new rifle?

 

[zjmccauley]

ok, so what you are saying is that the level really helps when zeroing in a new rifle?

Yeah, angle up and down and cant left and right can have huge negative effects on your round hitting the target unless you understand and control these parameters.

 

[ZiaHunter]

If you plan on shooting long distances I would recommend some sort of scope level more so than either an ACI or ADI. If you are going to get either and ADI or ACI I would consider one that mounts to the rail rather than the top half of the ring.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Yeah, angle up and down and cant left and right can have huge negative effects on your round hitting the target unless you understand and control these parameters.

If you are zeroing at standard distances, an up or down angle would have to be pretty crazy to make a difference. And rifle cant is along the same lines.

While these tools are useful, you have over exaggerated the extent of impact.

 

[zjmccauley]

If you are zeroing at standard distances, an up or down angle would have to be pretty crazy to make a difference. And rifle cant is along the same lines.

While these tools are useful, you have over exaggerated the extent of impact.

If you're anything like me, you shoot for precision. Some people may be okay missing center mass of their target a few inches. But at 300 yards, your bipod zero WILL absolutely be off if you shot from a bench. Precision shooting means knowing every last thing that will effect your shot and controlling it.

A realistic situation: you're on a hunt. You spot a beautiful animal and you're going to kill it. You make you quick dial adjustments or mentally note your holdovers and all that other fancy shit, you check your distance to the grazing animal; 325 yards between you and the animal. You put your cross hairs on it and check your cosine indicator, it says .88. So you multiply your distance by .88 and it comes to 286 yards. That fourty yard difference can mean the difference between makes a kill or scaring the shit out of it. The cases are far more extreme here in colorado, you may be shooting from a top of a steep hill into a valley.

 

[whitenup11]

If you're anything like me, you shoot for precision. Some people may be okay missing center mass of their target a few inches. But at 300 yards, your bipod zero WILL absolutely be off if you shot from a bench. Precision shooting means knowing every last thing that will effect your shot and controlling it.

A realistic situation: you're on a hunt. You spot a beautiful animal and you're going to kill it. You make you quick dial adjustments or mentally note your holdovers and all that other fancy shit, you check your distance to the grazing animal; 325 yards between you and the animal. You put your cross hairs on it and check your cosine indicator, it says .88. So you multiply your distance by .88 and it comes to 286 yards. That fourty yard difference can mean the difference between makes a kill or scaring the shit out of it. The cases are far more extreme here in colorado, you may be shooting from a top of a steep hill into a valley.

so a bubble level in your scenario above would have nothing to do with the shot you describe?

 

[taliv]

If you're anything like me, you shoot for precision. Some people may be okay missing center mass of their target a few inches. But at 300 yards, your bipod zero WILL absolutely be off if you shot from a bench. Precision shooting means knowing every last thing that will effect your shot and controlling it.

are you trying to say you are compensating for the angle change created by the distance between the ground and the top of the bench when zeroing? have you been doing this since before they legalized marijuana out there?

 

[ptosis]

so a bubble level in your scenario above would have nothing to do with the shot you describe?

(NB: This is not my scenario, I can only guess).

Strictly speaking -- you are correct, a bubble level is not required. However, shooting at significant inclination often requires slightly awkward or unusual shooting positions (we all train on flat). In such positions, where you don't have the usual reference points of your body, it is easy to overlook substantial rifle cant.

 

[zjmccauley]

are you trying to say you are compensating for the angle change created by the distance between the ground and the top of the bench when zeroing? have you been doing this since before they legalized marijuana out there?

Are you disagreeing that there's a difference? You can see for yourself.

 

[zjmccauley]

so a bubble level in your scenario above would have nothing to do with the shot you describe?

My scenario didn't really include the cant level. But it could be a factor just as easily. As was stated above, when you're not at a nice flat range, it's easy to find your rifle canted. a 15 degree cant and 15 degree declination of your rifle wont throw your round off by feet, it could only mean 6 inches, but 6 inches could be a world of difference.

There's gonna be aci or adi and cant level advocates like me, then there's people who claim its a bunch of shit. Rifles are one of the main staples of my profession, so I've delved into the finer aspects. If you use aci's and cant levels and you can use the well, you will be a better shooter, but you can skate by without 'just fine'.

 

[SD26]

a 15 degree cant and 15 degree declination of your rifle wont throw your round off by feet, it could only mean 6 inches, but 6 inches could be a world of difference.

I've been very curious about this. I've thought about the idea that the place where I zero my rifle at 300 yards may have a certain inclination, but where I do a long range competition...well, it might certainly be different. Yes, 6" is a world of difference.

Does a cant level get "zeroed" at one's zeroing distance?

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Are you disagreeing that there's a difference? You can see for yourself.

Are you serious.......

 

[zjmccauley]

I've been very curious about this. I've thought about the idea that the place where I zero my rifle at 300 yards may have a certain inclination, but where I do a long range competition...well, it might certainly be different. Yes, 6" is a world of difference.

Does a cant level get "zeroed" at one's zeroing distance?

When you zero your rifle, firstly you should zero for whatever application its going to be used for next. So if you're zeroing for a competition you may push your zero out to a further distance and use a bench to zero. If you're hunting, bring it in and use bipods. Either way, you're going to want the rifle as level as you can. Cant is usually something you can eliminate, hence why we uses bubble levels and bipods usually have telescoping legs. As where inclination or declination is an unavoidable thing, if you have to shoot down hill, well shit, you have to shoot downhill lol.

 

[Pat M]

HORUS VISION ASLI

i have one, works great

 

[ZiaHunter]

Let's use a 300 yard example for the effect of LOS angles impact on a 140 gr. 6.5 mm projectile with a MV of 2640 fps at sea level, 70 degrees F, standard barometric pressure. At 0 degrees drop at 300 is approx. 13 inches, at 10 degrees 12 inches, 20 degrees 11 inches. Assuming a vital zone radius of 2.5 inches for say an elk the LOS angle would need to exceed 23 degrees before it would become a factor. Granted if you were shooting for precision or at longer distances compensation may be in order.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

To be clear I am not arguing the effect of cant or angle. I have shot at the extreme ends of both and know the effects well. I am also not discounting the value of a ACI in angle applications.

What I am saying is that you don't need one for zeroing a rifle as was stated. There is also no difference in shooting prone and then moving to a bench at 100 yards. That angle makes no difference, it wouldn't matter if you shot prone then move to a 50 story building. If you are at 100 yards... you are at 100 yards. The same goes for 300 yards. Flat ground distance is what matters.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Knight:

Agree with you completely. My point in my previous post was that in most cases unless the angles are extreme one should not worry to much about LOS angles in most shooting situations.

 

[marduk185]

an angle o me dangle meter is definitely needed if you want any real OAF's to take you seriously sir. bubble level is nice too but probably less critical at normal distances.

 

[decider]

your mom's bubble titties affect the angle of my dangle...