I just bought an annealing machine. My question is. Do I have to worry about once twice fired brass anymore ? My thought was as long as I annealed them at the same time they should all have the same neck tension. Regardless of how many firings the cases had on them. Is that correct or not?
Annealing cases question
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Re: Annealing cases question
But the case necks will be thicker on the older ones that have been fired more. The differing thickness of the case necks will cause neck tension to vary.
But the case necks will be thicker on the older ones that have been fired more. The differing thickness of the case necks will cause neck tension to vary.
Re: Annealing cases question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the case necks will be thicker on the older ones that have been fired more. The differing thickness of the case necks will cause neck tension to vary. </div></div>
Victor,
Would outside neck turning the necks be sufficient to equilibrate the differences in one lot of 2X fired vs another lot of 3X fired brass, all other things equal (same brand, same resizing method, same case prep methods, etc.)?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the case necks will be thicker on the older ones that have been fired more. The differing thickness of the case necks will cause neck tension to vary. </div></div>
Victor,
Would outside neck turning the necks be sufficient to equilibrate the differences in one lot of 2X fired vs another lot of 3X fired brass, all other things equal (same brand, same resizing method, same case prep methods, etc.)?
Re: Annealing cases question
Before I started turning anything I would use my tube micrometer and measure a few random pieces of the 2X fired and the 1X fired to see if there is a difference in neck thickness. I wold measue about 5 or 6 spots on the neck rotating in on my bench. When I figured out what the difference was, if I had one, then I would get the turning gear from the drawer. I am skeptical about a significant difference frm a single firing, but it depends upon the cartridge being used.
JeffVN
Before I started turning anything I would use my tube micrometer and measure a few random pieces of the 2X fired and the 1X fired to see if there is a difference in neck thickness. I wold measue about 5 or 6 spots on the neck rotating in on my bench. When I figured out what the difference was, if I had one, then I would get the turning gear from the drawer. I am skeptical about a significant difference frm a single firing, but it depends upon the cartridge being used.
JeffVN
Re: Annealing cases question
Thanks Jeff,
I have been playing with a Forster outside neck turner to kiss down the high spots on case necks. It's revealing to see just how out of round most cases are, often just barely. In a given lot, with the cutter set to just nick the highest points, some cases will show the barest touch on part of the circumference while others show complete or, nearly so, trimming!
TresMon showed this in some detail in one of his threads.
It is in that context that I wonder if given a consistent annealing job, along with uniform case prep methods, if case neck turning would bring the older cases (with greater numbers of firing cycles) into equivalent neck tension ranges of the younger cases.
Thanks Jeff,
I have been playing with a Forster outside neck turner to kiss down the high spots on case necks. It's revealing to see just how out of round most cases are, often just barely. In a given lot, with the cutter set to just nick the highest points, some cases will show the barest touch on part of the circumference while others show complete or, nearly so, trimming!
TresMon showed this in some detail in one of his threads.
It is in that context that I wonder if given a consistent annealing job, along with uniform case prep methods, if case neck turning would bring the older cases (with greater numbers of firing cycles) into equivalent neck tension ranges of the younger cases.
Re: Annealing cases question
QQ,
I have not found it necessary to neck turn until about 4 load cycles. When you neck turn remember you'll have to use a bushing die. Because it will change the neck tension.
QQ,
I have not found it necessary to neck turn until about 4 load cycles. When you neck turn remember you'll have to use a bushing die. Because it will change the neck tension.
Re: Annealing cases question
Even when just knocking down the high spots Victor?
I use Dillon FL dies for resizing.
Even when just knocking down the high spots Victor?
I use Dillon FL dies for resizing.
Re: Annealing cases question
I was actually referring to brass that had been trued up initially.
I was actually referring to brass that had been trued up initially.
Re: Annealing cases question
You will need to track the brass by number of firings anyway so that you will know when it starts to fail. Otherwise, you won't know to throw away your brass until after it shows signs of failure (splits, cracks, etc.). It is better to go ahead and segregate your cases just for safety's sake.
But no, I don't think there will be a lot of difference in neck tension between 1X fired and 2X fired brass that is annealed, and especially not on 4X vs 5X, etc.
You will need to track the brass by number of firings anyway so that you will know when it starts to fail. Otherwise, you won't know to throw away your brass until after it shows signs of failure (splits, cracks, etc.). It is better to go ahead and segregate your cases just for safety's sake.
But no, I don't think there will be a lot of difference in neck tension between 1X fired and 2X fired brass that is annealed, and especially not on 4X vs 5X, etc.
Re: Annealing cases question
Ok most of my brass is once twice fired. I have very few that are 3x. All cases get FL sized and trimmed on once fired. then just FL sized after that.
So even though there Annealed they still only good for x amount of firings?
Just trying to figure out the whole annealing thing.
I am right now using it on .308 win brass. I will eventually be using it on .223 LC brass and .338 lapua brass.
Ok most of my brass is once twice fired. I have very few that are 3x. All cases get FL sized and trimmed on once fired. then just FL sized after that.
So even though there Annealed they still only good for x amount of firings?
Just trying to figure out the whole annealing thing.
I am right now using it on .308 win brass. I will eventually be using it on .223 LC brass and .338 lapua brass.
Re: Annealing cases question
Annealing will make neck tension more equal and allow the brass to move more before cracking. As to how many reloading you will get will vary greatly. Mostly dependent on how close to a fire formed perfect fitting piece of brass you have. So if you size the crap out of them with something like a small base die screwed down real far then the brass will have a long way to stretch to get to the walls of the chamber. The less the brass has to work the more firing you will get if ALL other things are equal.
Annealing will make neck tension more equal and allow the brass to move more before cracking. As to how many reloading you will get will vary greatly. Mostly dependent on how close to a fire formed perfect fitting piece of brass you have. So if you size the crap out of them with something like a small base die screwed down real far then the brass will have a long way to stretch to get to the walls of the chamber. The less the brass has to work the more firing you will get if ALL other things are equal.
Re: Annealing cases question
This is what I use to outside neck turn, set to just nick the high spots.
Though I use the Lee three jaw chuck to hold the case head in a cordless drill, for speed rather than the Forster case holder.
Just starting to play around with it, but as I already have the case chucked to chamfer them after trimming and brush out/buff the inside of the case necks, it's an easy step to run it onto the Forster trimmer too!
Not sure it's making any difference in my chambers but there is definitely asymmetry in the thickness of most necks. I always keep my cases in lots, segregated by brand and life cycle (# of times fired)
So given the question originally posed by the OP regarding the the neck tension of different generations of cases, even after annealing: Given the neck thickness is likely to be greater after each generation of firing /resizing, the process of annealing solves only the problem of hardness.
Does the use of the above tool fill a useful gap in bringing the annealed case neck, regardless of the # of cycles of the brass in question, as close as practical, back to near new condition?
This is what I use to outside neck turn, set to just nick the high spots.
Though I use the Lee three jaw chuck to hold the case head in a cordless drill, for speed rather than the Forster case holder.
Just starting to play around with it, but as I already have the case chucked to chamfer them after trimming and brush out/buff the inside of the case necks, it's an easy step to run it onto the Forster trimmer too!
Not sure it's making any difference in my chambers but there is definitely asymmetry in the thickness of most necks. I always keep my cases in lots, segregated by brand and life cycle (# of times fired)
So given the question originally posed by the OP regarding the the neck tension of different generations of cases, even after annealing: Given the neck thickness is likely to be greater after each generation of firing /resizing, the process of annealing solves only the problem of hardness.
Does the use of the above tool fill a useful gap in bringing the annealed case neck, regardless of the # of cycles of the brass in question, as close as practical, back to near new condition?
