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...another question for a "REAL" sniper

C

cryhavoc

Private
Minuteman
Jan 5, 2010
3
0
62
Southern Oregon
...sorry 'bout the title of this thread...but I just couldn't resist...

This probably is a question for Greg, but, I thought versus sending him a PM, and creating a single dialogue, why not open it up for a broader audience.

I have oft pondered the platform framework of a suppressed/scoped .22lr, and its real world application in an urban AO, and its effectiveness, given its performance envelope(100-150m).

I have an acquaintance(ex-SF) who swears by his suppressed 10/22, and our discussions piqued my further interest. I know the late Jeff Cooper was a fan of a suppressed .22lr platform for eliminating key agitators as a response to civil unrest, and the Chechens gave the Russians a real 'headache' in the first Battle of Grozny with the .22lr. So, I assume it has merit at some level...but what is that?

Before I proceed, let me state that I own a 700 in .308, so, this is not a "Whats the best blah-blah-blah, for the blah-blah-blah...." Ok, I get it...
I hear alot of you guys laud the rounds and rifles(with good reason...) that are industry standard...great. But I hear little about this topic.
The question I seek opinion on is simply this:

"Does a suppressed/scoped .22lr have a place, or is there even a need for it, as an answer to the question of discreet, limited range urban tactical engagements"

If so...why? If not...why not?

Let the games begin...



cryhavoc
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

Yes it does in both LE and Mil operations. Wether or not they are used is an entirely different story. Here are some of the reasons why its a great viable tool.

-Taking out street or perimeter lights
-Taking out animals( mainly guard dogs or some of the other animals found abroad used for first line warnings)
-Well placed shots to a single sentry or guard( MIL ops only) to avoid alerting others
-Also in an E&E situation, being able to stay out of your pursuers hands and still being able to get food (rabbits,squirrels,birds and such)

there are unlimited uses for a suppressed 22 LR in the operating world.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

Depends on your target I guess. Dogs, security cams, ect. On two legged critters I'm not so sure.

deadly beat me to the "submit" button
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes it does in both LE and Mil operations. Wether or not they are used is an entirely different story. Here are some of the reasons why its a great viable tool.

-Taking out street or perimeter lights
-Taking out animals( mainly guard dogs or some of the other animals found abroad used for first line warnings)
-Well placed shots to a single sentry or guard( MIL ops only) to avoid alerting others
-Also in an E&E situation, being able to stay out of your pursuers hands and still being able to get food (rabbits,squirrels,birds and such)


there are unlimited uses for a suppressed 22 LR in the operating world. </div></div>
I know a guy who was on SWAT in the great Socialistic state of CALI and he carried a silenced walther P-22 for just about all the reasons deadly pointed out as LE not MIL.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

My question would be "why not a suppressed .17HMR?" It's a more effective platform, more versatile, and still maintains all of the benefits of the .22. If I was to undertake a weapon for the reasons listed above, wouldn't the .17 be a better choice?
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Street lights huh? With a 22LR? I think not. I tried it once, and you'll need something a little bigger than a subsonic 22LR. </div></div>

Well, I can't speak for lights stateside, as I never tried to shoot them out, but I can say a subsonic round of comparible energy in theatre will take out street lights.

However, unlike the protected lights here in the states, the vast majority of the lights had exposed bulbs and would take much less than a 22 subsonic to break.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question would be "why not a suppressed .17HMR?" It's a more effective platform, more versatile, and still maintains all of the benefits of the .22. If I was to undertake a weapon for the reasons listed above, wouldn't the .17 be a better choice?</div></div>

probably too difficult to get the projectiles to stay subsonic and keep the notorious accuracy it is so beloved for...
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

So, if you were going to go with this set-up what .22 LR rifle would you go with and what suppressor? This is a little off my radar.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

I'm currently having a Vidar built by LRM Technologies. It's based off a Ruger 1022 with a match grade barrel that is integrally suppressed. There are several excellent builders for .22's. Elite Iron, S&H Arms, SRT, AWC, etc. All make an excellent product that is both accurate and quiet.

As a side note, I sent my Ruger MK II pistol to Elite Iron and had him do an integral build. Amazingly quiet (was a match Sunday and the Pact timer could not pick up the shots) and accurate. It's one of my favorites to shoot along with my suppressed Enfield converted to 45acp...(think DeLisle Carbine-esq).
Steve

P1140271.jpg
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

I do believe the suppressed 22 has a place in the tactical world. I own a suppressed MK2 which has the sound signiture of a paintball gun, with acceptable accuracy out to 100 yards it would definetly have a place on goat herding dogs in afghanistan also the herders would be able to be dispatched with very little attention. On the 17hmr, the velocity is to high to keep the round sub sonic like most 22 factory ammo in a suppressed 22.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question would be "why not a suppressed .17HMR?" It's a more effective platform, more versatile, and still maintains all of the benefits of the .22. If I was to undertake a weapon for the reasons listed above, wouldn't the .17 be a better choice? </div></div>

Suppressed FN 5.7 pistol.
I have killed more groundhogs and possums then I can count with this platform.
5.7 pistol with a SWR Spectre can and Surefire X400 is great. plus 30 rifle rounds in a pistol platform? whats not to like?
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question would be "why not a suppressed .17HMR?" It's a more effective platform, more versatile, and still maintains all of the benefits of the .22. If I was to undertake a weapon for the reasons listed above, wouldn't the .17 be a better choice? </div></div>

Because the round will still be pretty loud due to the projectile still breaking the sound barrier creating a sonic crack.
A 22lr with a sub sonic round fired through a good suppressor is nearly silent ,on a 10/22 the sound of the action operating is the loudest part.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

I worked with a guy year back who toted a ruger 10/22 and he had a 100 round drum magazine. He had a big supressor on this thing so I think the true barrel length was a aroun 12-13 inches. He shot grain rounds out of it.....the little 22 cases actually were shortened to almost 22 short lengths in order for the longer projectile to fit. It took a fair amount of smithing to get the acton to function with these rounds because I think they went about 850fps. But they killed EVERYTHING......I mean a headshot was of course a 1 and done with in 100 yards but I saw him jump guys around corners and put 2-3 rounds in center mass and they went down without a peep. On this weapon the action was actually the loudest thing about it.........I can only imagine the same setup with those loads in a little bolt action......this rifle actually did sound like the suppressed weapons you see in the action movies..it just made a little puff sound. Versus the silent movie guns some een revolvers or big caliber rifles making almost no noise at all. This thing was incredible. I mean for pest control or just target shooting as a training aid. Guys who live in the suburbs could shoot this in the backyard with a good backstop on days they couldn't hit the range and nobody would ever know.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Myers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But they killed EVERYTHING......I mean a headshot was of course a 1 and done with in 100 yards but I saw him jump guys around corners and put 2-3 rounds in center mass and they went down without a peep.</div></div>

What...?
confused.gif


Did I accidentally log onto arfcom?
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Myers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But they killed EVERYTHING......I mean a headshot was of course a 1 and done with in 100 yards but I saw him jump guys around corners and put 2-3 rounds in center mass and they went down without a peep.</div></div>

What...?
confused.gif


Did I accidentally log onto arfcom? </div></div>



well the thread title did want an answer from a "real" sniper. This guy must be telling the truth....
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

No hip waders needed and no I am not an ARf member.....at least not an active one. I don't even own a an AR anymore...so many out there.....they have became the gun of video gamers. I got booted once of off AR15 for bumping my Equipment Exchange post.not bumping but I was acquised of bumping because I guy ask me a simple yes or no questions and I answered it on the thred versus Pm so I got my thread locked.

I am 42 years old........a proud father and former operator....I just got a little too excited remembering an old friend and at the time his freaky rig.....look at when I joined and my # of posts I usually keep read more than post. I was only trying to be helpful. I will try and keep any info that isn't related to target shooting in proper forums on other sites. I belong to a couple low profile sites where you need to hav creditionals to enter the sites and I forgot where I was. If I offended anyone with excessive violence of gore....or seemed like I was playing a shoot em up video game I apologize........but the thread did mention shooting out street lights and guard dogs.......:)

Derek
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

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Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

The Israelis are supposed to have had a doctrine of using a suppressed .22LR to quell riots - which they did by covertly taking a headshot on the leader of the mob. Of course, you could only do that in a permissive environment, which the United States is not.

I cannot testify to the accuracy of that supposition.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

i think the round you were speaking of was the Aguilla SSS, its a 60gr bullet stuck on a .22short casing, usually driven to around 750fps or a little faster...i dont remember exactly, but i recall hearing somewhere it was designed to be shot with suppressors in tactical situations.
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

Well, whether the real deals use subsonic 22LR or not, I have a bunch of rifles and pistols and suppressors in 22LR.

Very useful for practice and fun. My brother-in-law pops red squirrels with one (I don't kill what I won't eat). 100M and 200M shots are a challenge and at the farmhouse I can shoot off the back porch and not freak the wife out.

No ammo is "cheap" any more, but 22LR has a low cost per round while still getting match quality. I use CCI and Lapua. Pissed at Eley for selling that Practice brand crap. Sorry OT rant....
 
Re: ...another question for a "REAL" sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Myers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I belong to a couple low profile sites where you need to hav creditionals to enter the sites and I forgot where I was.

Derek </div></div>
TOP SECRET
squirrel.jpg
 
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