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Any way to get better accuracy without going closer to the lands?

I should have specified. I have tried different lengths up to my max mag length. I am wondering what can be done without having to make lengths longer than max mag length.

You've already shot yourself in the foot! You've tried different lengths that will fit your magazines and nothing seems to work. You do know that certain bullets are more forgiving when it comes to jump right? So, what does it mean when you keep trying the same thing with the same components and expecting different results?
 
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Speed up or slow down. (tilt the powder can more, or less)

Use more expensive components. (usually they are 'better', and if not, at least they make you feel good)

Shoot the rifle more. (type less)


-Nate
 
Definitely try another powder, or primer, or both.. if i find myself insisting on a particular bullet, i try at least 3 powders and pick the one with the best harmonics (best average 5 shot groups) for my rifle. Then narrow it down..... if your stuck on a particular powder, try at least 3 different bullets and do the same. Sometimes just switching primers will change a group size by 1/4 moa.

All that said, your shooting with a rear/toe bag right?
 
I cant believe this post keeps going on and on. When one has a Remington factory barrel you will never get the performance as one wants. Remington barrels have a longer throat thats why your hand loads end up longer than your box mag. Grouping is effected as well because the tolerance are not as tight as a custom barrel. To the guy that started this post you need to buy a custom barrel. Then tailor your rounds with the finest component you are willing to pay for. You can spend time and money on the finest components available but you will just be spinning your wheels. My earlier post explains all this.
 
I cant believe this post keeps going on and on. When one has a Remington factory barrel you will never get the performance as one wants. Remington barrels have a longer throat thats why your hand loads end up longer than your box mag. Grouping is effected as well because the tolerance are not as tight as a custom barrel. To the guy that started this post you need to buy a custom barrel. Then tailor your rounds with the finest component you are willing to pay for. You can spend time and money on the finest components available but you will just be spinning your wheels. My earlier post explains all this.
A custom barrel costs money. The point of this post was to ask if there is anything a guy can do, without spending an arm and a leg. My buddy has a stock Remington 700 as well, factory barrel and all. His shoots 1/8 MOA all day with the same bullet so I guess he got lucky with his factory barrel.
 
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One way might be to adapt your shooting methods to accommodate the long throat.

Begin by discarding the magazine feeding process, and hand feed each round in a single feed mode. This way, you can seat your bullets longer, with a better relationship to the lands.

I went to single feeding my bolt guns long ago. In many competitive disciplines, it's actually a requirement anyway.

With Semi's the option isn't usually available, BUT devices like single feed magazine followers and SLEDs (Single Loading Enhancement Devices) can provide a very similar capability. I use them in my ARs and even in my Garand under some circumstances. This allows my ARs to meet single feeding requirements in disciplines like F Class (F T/R).

Another approach that I use is a kinda Rube Goldberg approach to 'managing' neck tension. I back off the resizing die until a significant portion of the case neck toward the shoulder remains expanded. This reduces neck tension in a fairly controllable manner. More neck resized would equal more neck tension and vice-versa.

This method is complicated by issues like work hardening of the neck brass as the number of firings mounts up, making the brass stiffer and increasing neck tension, so whatever 'managing' is taking place is not such an absolute thing over a significant number of firings. Annealing can reduce or eliminate this hardening issue, but I don't do it myself.

You might think that this will make the cases harder to chamber, and after some firings, this becomes true, but not right away, I've found. So occasionally, you'll have to reset the die to bump the shoulder back. You can use the end of the slider on the dial caliper to measure the amount the top of the die protrudes above the die lock nut, in order to keep track of the die settings in the high and low settings. Unfortunately you have to resize the whole neck when bumping back the shoulder. One way to allow more firings between bumps is to avoid hotter loads, which stretch the brass more.

Another way of doing this is a technique I developed for reloading the .260. I kept another tool head (Dillon RL550b) set up with a .308 resizing die for use as a dedicated .260 bump die. It had the entire decapping stem removed. The .308 die would bump the .260' case's shoulder and fully resize the case sidewall while leaving the .260 case neck completely untouched. This can work because the .260 and the .308 share identical case dimensions from the shoulder on down.

FYI, the .338 Federal and/or the .358 Winchester are also based directly on the .308 case and could be used as a .308 bump die in the same manner as the .243, .260, and 7mm-08; but that's not really such a cheap solution.

Remember not to bump the shoulder back any more than is absolutely needed, or sidewall shortening will occur, leading to an increased tendency toward case head separations.

The best way to find the right shoulder bump setting is to gradually start the adjustment with an unresized case that's still long enough in the shoulder to be kinda hard to close the bolt on. Then lower the die in small increments until closing the bolt shows just a little bit of drag as opposed to no case at all in the chamber.

Sometimes the fired case will not have enough growth to allow such an adjustment. This may indicate that the bump adjustment is already too aggressive.

Some will say the ejector needs to be removed from the bolt in order to get the correct 'feel', but I never have, and my adjustments seem to work fine.

Greg
 
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Shouldn't be fighting a factory Remington. MY 700 .308 has a Max COAL of 2.945" with Sierra HPBT 175's. I load to 2.800" SAAMI and seem to not have to chase the lands. Seems like the Sierra Match Kings are pretty forgiving considering a .145" jump.
 
The SMKs are very jump friendly due to their tangential ogive. The new ELD line from Hornady looks to have a secant style ogive which are historically known to be finicky with jump. Some barrels work with them jumping, but most barrels like these bullets to be close to the lands for consistency.

If you are going to keep your factory barrel, you might be better served to sell all those ELDs you have and put that money towards a tangential ogive bullet. Berger makes a 175gr OTM that is like an SMK on steroids. It has a better BC, jump friendly, a shorter bearing surface, and flies through transonic unfazed. The shorter bearing surface will let you have some speed with less pressure signs, too.
 
I treat the .308 and .30-'06 as fraternal twins. I've used the .308 for target related shooting, and the .30-'06 for something more like hunting.

In both, the .308" diameter SMK's have been my workhorse bullets, 175's for 1Kyd-ish shooting, the 168's for somewhat closer in. While the newer Hornady ELD-?s are what I'd call a more refined alternative, they are not going to be replacing the SMK's for me right away. I'll use what SMK's I have and maybe also buy more, if the ELD-?s don't settle in for me and show a genuine advantage; something that has yet to happen. Not any bullet's fault, it just not the first order of business for me while I'm putting the final touches on my .223 medley of rifles and loads. My .30-'06 hunting bullet of choice is the Sierra 165gr SGK; loaded with 48.1gr of IMR-4064, a pretty close equivalent I use with the 168SMK to the 168 FGMM load that was posted here at The 'Hide several years back.

I think that although IMR-4895 and IMR-4064 are both great powders for both .308 and .30-'06, I like the 4895 better for the lighter bullets of around 150gr, and 4064 better for the heavier ones, 168-180.

Greg