Rifle Scopes Anyone else seem to have bad luck with optics?

[The King]

I am about to stop off at ye olde shipping center to mail off all my broken optics for this year. I usually have between 5 and 10 of the high end optics on hand, and I pretty much have to have every one serviced every year or two.

I'm not beating these things up, either. They lead a fairly charmed life.

Hell, the first optic to break this year was on only its second outing and the reticle decided that 10 degrees off center was the orientation it was happiest with. The one before that was on a 5.56 rifle and the front ocular lens shattered after about 10 rounds of shooting. The one that broke last night had the illumination control continue unscrewing itself past 0. I was about to accidentally unscrew it off the scope entirely before I noticed the fixed line for what number you are on was moving with the turret all of the sudden.

Yes, all this crap is covered under warranty, but that doesn't mean that its encouraging. Every optic in question was made in the USA, Japan, or Germany and is usually about as expensive as a scope gets in the category they were in. Chances are very high that if you tell me "just buy x brand..." I can point to a shipping receipt back to the factory for repair. IOR, steiner, nightforce, schmidt and bender, burris, zeiss, hensoldt, vortex, swarovski, leica...

Okay, I'm done ranting. Anyone else want to share their massive asspain experiences in this realm?

 

[Nik H]

Sorry to hear about your experiences

I have S&B, Khales, NF, USO, SS and ACOGs and have never had an issue with any of them. When I owned some other brands; my experience was not as bad as yours but I did have to send a couple in for repair and then they were sold

 

[RTH1800]

I have owned and used over 50 high end scopes. Mostly S&B, a few NF and Two USO's.

I shoot and hunt 150 days per year or more. Carry a rifle in my truck most days. With so many scopes only a few actually see hard daily use. So far I have returned one S&B for illumination/short issue. It was a USMC model that was set up at Premier IIRC. A brief trip across the pond fixed that. Most of the scopes I use are S&B.

Both of the USO's were constantly in transit. Not sure I ever had one of them mounted. Great looking scopes, cool features. Just never got it right. USO was very nice about it but still never ending problems.

NF scopes had no issues.

All in all very few scope issues with NF or S&B.

 

[Mute]

Don't spend money on the lottery is my advice. I've only had one scope serviced in all the years and different brands I've owned.

 

[The King]

Thanks for the replies folks - its good to see that others don't seem to have my bad luck as I look for my next optic. I think nightforce has been the lowest failure rate of anything I have owned and I'm likely to give them some more business this week.

 

[AIAW]

Oh you aren't alone...

I've too had USO issues. ST-10 illumination wire hanging into the FOV, a LR-17 tracking issue also.

S&B shipped me a 5-25 PMII with the "third screw" too tight which meant when the other two screws were loosened it couldn't be zeroed. Easy fix, but I got their blessing to proceed with a self-fix without having to send it back.

Nightforce ATACR "released the shmoo" all inside of itself. Evidently a known issue there.

Luckily I'm almost purely S&B now. The worst thing on my plate that I still own is that my oldest S&B 5-25 has a .2 MIL deviation over the full erector travel. Easy enough to compensate for in FFS... and even .2 isn't terrible over the full travel. I think it's actually worn a bit because I tracked it when I first bought it new and it was flawless back then. Granted, if I had a penny for every time the elevation turret has been turned I'd be rather wealthy.

 

[The King]

I had OK luck with SB. The first 5-25 I sent back once. The second one never had any service. Another optic of theirs I sent back 3 or 4 times. It kept breaking the same way each time. The 4-16 I had was just fine. So 50% luck there.

 

[steve123]

An IOR 6-24x56 broke on me, they replaced it with a new one which I sold, that was the worst luck so far.

Sent a USO 3.2-17 back, it didn't come back much better, poor glass.

Had a NXS 5.5-22 get it's erector stuck, I think that was the problem??? I dialed all the way through it's travel 3-4 times and it worked fine afterwards so I didn't send it back for repair.

All three S&B's have been pretty good except one is generous a click by 7 mils which I have compensated for in the app. Well one's parallax knob is a little too easy to turn too. Not concerned enough for me to send either back for repair.

Had some old Hakko Horus brand scopes that didn't track and were off quite a bit. Reticles worked though.

Amazing luck with inexpensive Athlon FFP scopes, like about 15 of them that my friends and I use! One small problem on one which I fixed myself in a few minutes. Got a Cronus BTR coming soon which I'm going to use in place of one S&B. Will try a Ares 2.5-15 later in the year as well.

Owned more medium priced/$1500 older scopes with no failures - Bushnell HDMR mostly.

My S&B's aren't going anywhere but it's threads like this that have swayed me to towards cheaper scopes which have worked for 90% of the shooting I do.

 

[GreenBlood10]

Fortunately, I can say that I don't have your luck (or lack thereof) with optics. Granted I've only owned higher end scopes for the last two years. I haven't had to send any back yet. Sorry for your luck!

 

[tnichols]

You're not alone friend. I've sent back 2 Leupolds and 2 USO's in the last 7 years. All were fixed at no charge, but can't say in what I would consider a timely fashion. My fleet has slowly changed to where I'm 100% NF right now, and of those, currently a 5-25 ATACR is on the fence. Need to test a couple more things before I make "the call".

It certainly is frustrating. A lot of money spent on the product, money spent on testing/verification, and in my case, time spent and waisted while the system is down. And let's not forget the cost of shipping and insuring a $2500+ optic.

My stuff gets used, but lives a good life. No comps or hunting. Out of the safe, through the house to our deck, and back. I dont think that's asking too much.

 

[TheGerman]

Other than a dirt cheap Vortex Crossfire I had on a 22 years ago that decided to just totally come apart inside, I've had zero problems as far as optics going bad or breaking.

The only 2 instances where I had to send something in was with a Bushnell spotter that had the reticle canted right out of the box as well as various other issues and a Leupold Mk6 3-18 that I had the low profile turrets installed on at the factory which came back in piss poor working condition. Both of these were due to someone doing their job half assed as neither of these should have passed QC yet alone left the factory. Leupold fixed their problem and the ordeal with Bushnell made sure I never buy anything with their name on it again.

I have everything from ACOGs on 5.56 rifles that I shoot almost 1k a week through, S&B 5-25 on a 300WM, Leupold Mk4 6.5-20 on an MRAD in 308/6.5/338, Leupold Mk6 3-18 on a KAC M110-K, Vortex Viper FFP 4-16 on a 22LR trainer, Spotter 60 and a bunch of other stuff - zero problems. I even have a 1918 year range Zeiss Zielsechs on my K98, no problems after almost 100 years.

 

[tnichols]

This seems to be hit and miss (no pun intended). Either you've had great luck or none at all...weird. I for one am ready to live the good life. Please send your perfectly running high end optics to me...and I'll break them .

 

[noisewaterphd]

I've had problems with optics I expected to have problems with (I'm looking at you Vortex). Outside of that it has been less common for me.

Never had a PST last more than 2 months. I don't do PST's anymore.

2 Nightforce's bad right out of the box, 1 decided to stop tracking, 1 stopped focusing properly. I don't do NF anymore.

I had a tracking issue with a Kahles (still useable, just not correct). I still own and love this scope.


To be fair, I am pretty tough on scopes.

Never had a problem with: Gen 2 Razor, Steiner M5 (T5 has been good also, but still pretty new to me), S&B PMII, Athlon Cronus (currently abusing, still pretty new)


This better not jinx my reliables.

 

[Darklefthand]

I understand that optics are merely tools to be used, up to and including the very high end stuff, but the amount of posts here claiming failure is rather disconcerting. Whether it's one guy having ALL bad luck, or the other ten of you having a lemon here and there, it still seems that the majority of users out there have experienced at least one high end optic not surviving the rigors of what I would think is to be classified as 'expected use' for these types of optics.

That being said, I can't imagine this sort of phenomenon is particular only to optics. I'll bet there are some high-end A/V forums out there with the audio and videophiles gathering to discuss plenty of DOA televisions and the like. I think it's probably just the nature of the beast, especially when it comes to items with expensive price tags. Elevated price tags come with elevated expectations. Most folks would not bother to post a complaint when a $5 widget crumbles to dust upon opening the box. However, I would readily assume that someone is far more likely to relate their experience to others, when that widget costs $2500, and suffers a similar fate.

 

[sig2009]

I am about to stop off at ye olde shipping center to mail off all my broken optics for this year. I usually have between 5 and 10 of the high end optics on hand, and I pretty much have to have every one serviced every year or two.

I'm not beating these things up, either. They lead a fairly charmed life.

Hell, the first optic to break this year was on only its second outing and the reticle decided that 10 degrees off center was the orientation it was happiest with. The one before that was on a 5.56 rifle and the front ocular lens shattered after about 10 rounds of shooting. The one that broke last night had the illumination control continue unscrewing itself past 0. I was about to accidentally unscrew it off the scope entirely before I noticed the fixed line for what number you are on was moving with the turret all of the sudden.

Yes, all this crap is covered under warranty, but that doesn't mean that its encouraging. Every optic in question was made in the USA, Japan, or Germany and is usually about as expensive as a scope gets in the category they were in. Chances are very high that if you tell me "just buy x brand..." I can point to a shipping receipt back to the factory for repair. IOR, steiner, nightforce, schmidt and bender, burris, zeiss, hensoldt, vortex, swarovski, leica...

Okay, I'm done ranting. Anyone else want to share their massive asspain experiences in this realm?

No problems with optics here.
.

 

[Das Capitolin]

So far, of the big name brands I've had three Steiner M5Xi Military 5-25x56 go back (first was for bad CA around edges, the next two for failure to hold and tracking). Last year it was my brand new Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25x56... which I bought because my shooting buddies all said "if you want a scope that works, just buy Nightforce".

 

[claydav]

To date, I had to get 1 Schmidt & Bender PMII fixed after the first week for parallax correction; had to get one Nightforce NXS fixed after first week due to "debris" floating inside obstructing vision; had to exchange 1 Nightforce SHV F1 after first day due to "debris" floating inside obstructing vision; and had to send one Burris in for repair...won't get into that further...other than to say no longer own any Burris equipment. I have been fortunate thus far with Vortex, as I haven't had to send in either of my Razor Gen II scopes. I will confess, none of my low-end Leupold hunting scopes have given may a moment's trouble in over 30 years of abuse. Interesting to see experience of others here.

 

[JC Steel]

I know some of the older USO scopes had a problem or two and were sent back. I have had 7 or 8 in the last three years. Love them. They just plain work. Might want to give a new USO a chance. I think you will be happy.

That said, All scopes are mechanical and all will fail at some point. I just think stuff wears out. I have put some of my USO er 25s through the paces on the national level precision rifle matches. Track perfectly, zero holds, awesome field of view etc. I beat up my products pretty darn good. But I use them like a tool.

I have seen with my own two eyes all of the following scopes go down during a match, or training session.

USO
Vortex
Bushnell
Schmidt
Premier
Leupold
Burris
Hensoldt
Nightforce
Stiener
Kahles
IRO

Really you name it, you shoot enough matches and stuff is bound to happen. Just how the game goes. Actually, I have never seen a super sniper or Tasco long range sniper go down. They must be the cats meow

 

[warbird2006]

That's why I always buy Leupold. They serviced 3 scopes for free last year. You can get used or brand new, if there is a problem, goes to Oregon and its back in 3 weeks like brand spanking new. Thanks Leupold for a great service.

I also own one high end German made and one Canadian scope. I sent the Canadian scope, came back fixed, bu it took them 3 months and sending it in was very expensive. The German scope had issues with a turret. The customer service told me to use a super glue and fix it myself, sending it to Germany, insured, did not make any sense.

 

[Sapper524]

I have had almost all the big named brands and they all failed at some point. I don't intentionally abuse them but they get run hard in field matches and hunting. I have a 12 year old ERGO USO that has been to hell and back and still rocks today. I had a ER25 fail in 10 rounds and a LR17 purchased same time that is still rockin trouble free. I had 3 Vortex in a row go sideways. I had a Schmidt PMII seize up on me. I have broken every brand I have tried at some point. Maybe you get lucky and get that scope assembled by a motivated person on a Tuesday at 10am right after a coffee break and he was stoked to make that scope. The one that fails after 10 rounds was made on Friday after lunch. I don't know ... but with most companies today having a no BS warranty it makes life easier.

 

[OH58DViper]

Oh you aren't alone...


S&B shipped me a 5-25 PMII with the "third screw" too tight which meant when the other two screws were loosened it couldn't be zeroed. Easy fix, but I got their blessing to proceed with a self-fix without having to send it .

I think I'm having the same issue with mine. I can't get it to zero, no matter how much I loosen the two screws it still moves the reticle like they're tight. Who did you call? I called the company this AM that I bought it from and they said they would have someone call me......

 

[AIAW]

I think I'm having the same issue with mine. I can't get it to zero, no matter how much I loosen the two screws it still moves the reticle like they're tight. Who did you call? I called the company this AM that I bought it from and they said they would have someone call me......

I called the S&B Service Center directly.

Basically there is a third screw that isn't "user serviceable". It's just another set screw really, covered with a plastic cap. I had to very carefully drill the small plastic cap out (careful to not cut into the set screw itself) and then back that third screw out 1/4 turn. Fixed!

That screw is there just to keep the turret from coming off vertically, but it does have a connection all the way through to the erector. I used black silicone and a Q-Tip to re-cover that third screw. Afterwards no one would have ever know it took place!

 

[The King]

I actually like the way this thread has come out...lots of good info and I no longer feel so very lonely.

Is it fair to say optics are the main failure point on out LR rigs? And if so what would you follow it up with? I think it might be barrels - I have seen more than a few die before their time it seems.

 

[Deerhunter 28]

No
I stay with NF and never a problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Twinsen]

I've had to send back every Vortex product I've purchased at least once and they've all had multiple issues. Every one of them is junk out of the box. They might even fix them the first time around. But you might as well use their repairs department as the shipping address when you buy one.

I'm in a doozy with Steiner right now to get the turrets on a $1700 scope up to par with a $150 Nikon. Zeroing the things is a huge PITA because there are no instructions anywhere. You gotta pop the turret off and play with the rube goldberg cuckoo clock birds inside until you think you've solved the teutonic mystery.

With SWFA I've had bad luck complaining, because nothing ever goes wrong with those.

EditToAdd: Got a Bushnell 1-4x with fixed parallax. I couldn't find the distance where parallax was set. It acted like a single lens with a reticle. Error at 100 yards was a couple feet. I called them to ask what distance it is set at, and the guy said he didn't know. I returned it, got one back equally as fucked. Just complete junk.

 

[Clearlight]

March scopes have been 100% reliable for me , and are my current favourite . Zero issues of any sort . Tracking is
spot on , despite me dropping a few rifles with the awesome FX 5 - 40 mounted , and banging the crap out the turrets on
other rifles in the safe , and various outdoor obstacles …. The 4 millimetre wall thickness of the billet scope body
seems resistant to my disdain for correct transport ; I generally use soft guitar bags to disguise my rifles from curious
eyes. My neighbours think I am a musician : ) .

Hensoldt is the other other brand I have a zero fail record with . The old model ZF 4 - 16 with NH 1 reticle was one of my first
loves despite limited elevation travel . Had one illumination failure on a PM 2 in - 10 degree C conditions , not unusual in
such appalling conditions .

Vortex on the other hand , oh shit you couldn't give me one . Every single vortex I have used has shit itself , which explains
all the free stuff they give out . Apparently half the pedestrians at my local range are on Team Vortex …. I work part time at the
same range as an RO , another Viper refused to dial today , the poor guy must have sent $ 100 worth of factory ammo downrange
before asking me for help …

EDIT:
And before fans of any particular brand start puffing about ' awesome warranty and customer service ' , that is absolutely effen
useless to me on the side of a hill in places unmentionable ; unfailing reliability is what I need .

 

[tbs]

Have very good luck with Weaver Super Slam Tactical, Grand Slams, V series and T series. Not so good luck with Leupold BR series and Vari-x lll series-------- tracking issues, turret backlash. But aside from those issues they were fine. One Vortex I had was a Viper 6-20, sent it back for refund. Glass was horrible, like looking through the bottom of a coke bottle (great customer service). Even had real good luck with Simmons if you can believe that. I always figured they would fall apart but they never did. Burris Fullfields have always been good to me, no issues with those.

 

[trickyric]

I broke 3 scopes from 3 different companies in the last 18 months. I won't mention the 2 that took over a month to repair and return.
I will say that Nightforce turned my scope around to me in under a week.
stuff breaks if you use it.
How fast it gets repaired is important.

 

[tnichols]

I always figured, you have an aluminum tube full of glass, tiny moving parts, gas, seals, etc..trying to be pulled off the rifle with every recoil impulse...what could go wrong ?

 

[lash]

I've had to send back every Vortex product I've purchased at least once and they've all had multiple issues. Every one of them is junk out of the box. They might even fix them the first time around. But you might as well use their repairs department as the shipping address when you buy one.

I'm in a doozy with Steiner right now to get the turrets on a $1700 scope up to par with a $150 Nikon. Zeroing the things is a huge PITA because there are no instructions anywhere. You gotta pop the turret off and play with the rube goldberg cuckoo clock birds inside until you think you've solved the teutonic mystery....

I'm beginning to think that You may be the problem with your Steiner. If you do indeed have a T5Xi series Steiner, zeroing involves loosening the two set screws on the turret cap (in the knurls), pull up past the splines, moving the cap the desired amount to zero, then pushing the cap back down and tightening the set screws again. I do not know how it could be simpler. If you screwed around inside the turrets, then no wonder yours is all screwed up. It's You. Also, the new scope comes with very detailed instructions and if you bought yours used and your seller was a dick and didn't include them, then they are available online as a .pdf.

 

[6172crew!]

I had a athlon to send back because I couldn't remove parallax using the knob. the picture would focus but could get the reticle to move 2-3 inches by moving my eye behind the scope. Sold it at a loss, just didnt want to mount the one they sent me back up. I had to pay to ship it back to them so I wasted $100 or so checking it out. The note inside the return scope didn't give me any reason to want to buy another product from them again. "The note basically said the turrets moved fine, like any other scope." ummm, thats not why I sent it in scope guy.

 

[Twinsen]

I'm beginning to think that You may be the problem with your Steiner. If you do indeed have a T5Xi series Steiner, zeroing involves loosening the two set screws on the turret cap (in the knurls), pull up past the splines, moving the cap the desired amount to zero, then pushing the cap back down and tightening the set screws again. I do not know how it could be simpler. If you screwed around inside the turrets, then no wonder yours is all screwed up. It's You. Also, the new scope comes with very detailed instructions and if you bought yours used and your seller was a dick and didn't include them, then they are available online as a .pdf.

The difficult to zero one is the M5xi. They've changed the turrets on it and the manual I have and online PDF do not apply. The T5xi should be the easiest to zero and zero stop set optic I know of.

Thanks for the internet tough guy shit though. I am impressed and terribly, terribly intimidated.

 

[lash]

Really? You think that that was tough guy internet shit? You must have some thin skin then. You might want to grow a pair.
I mean not to intimidate, but could really care less. You provide very little real info in your posts and have posted mostly bashing optics, so it does make one wonder. Your previous posts only spoke about your bad experience with a T5Xi, so it's no stretch to assume that's what you were talking about again. But really, I wonder why I care. I try to be helpful to most people but really can't see to suffering fools. That's how it seemed.

 

[Twinsen]

Yes. That was clearly an attempt to be helpful and not internet tough guy BS. Good call.

My posts mostly will be buying and bashing optics until I can find somebody other than SWFA that can put together a decent scope. If a company takes a pile of my cash and gives me busted product, they can deal with me bashing them on the internet. I don't want them getting some other guy's cash and screwing him over.

At this point, I'm making the safe assumption that that T5xi will never get fixed. I really hope it does! I can't sell a broken $1700 scope and I have no use for it. My only course of action would be to make sure nobody else buys one.

As for the M5xi, I hope it lets me bring down the zero 0.3 mil. My zero has been 0.3 high for over a year. *shrug* I haven't made the right sacrifice to the teutonic cuckoo god of labrynthian complication.

 

[flyright]

7 NF's now - 4 ATACR's and 3 NXS's and ZERO issues... My .02...

 

[Brentc]

I've owned a bunch of medium to high end scopes over the years and have sent a few back for repair. I recently sent a March 2.5-25x52 back because it spewed something all over the internal lenses the first time I had it out. It's been a fantastic scope since. I've sent two of five PSTs back, both are now gone. I had one of the first generation 6-24 FFP that canted the reticle when you turned the magnification ring and a 1-4 that had issues with illumination contacts at certain settings. I have four Mark 4 LR/T that have never needed any service, two were sent back to get a reticle upgrade once the TS MOA reticles were introduced, but none for failure or required service. I currently have two NXS that haven't needed anything.

 

[oinco]

I have learned to look at optics like barrels and brass, they are consumables I have minor control over.

Maybe the question should be raised much more often in scope reviews " how many clicks between needing an erector/other parts/etc rebuild?"

 

[Downtown]

Perhaps, but Damn, a couple of thousand dollars is tough for a "consumable".

 

[oinco]

hopefully it shouldn't be a full loss- just $/time shipping a scope back for a cleaning/checkup/+ any worn parts a manufacturer wants to charge you for. That said, it would be nice to see manufacturers chime in here as some are NOT willing to do this service preventatively-only posthumously.
I guess perfect world would be an optic lease program- option to buy after 24mo? or turn in and start fresh...but that is what the optics marketplace is for right?

 

[Dai Bando]

I've been very happy with a bunch of SWFA's.