I see pretty much everyone dropped their Hensoldt lines here in the U.S.. Was that Hensoldt doing that, or were they just crappy sellers? Are they gone forever?
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Oh wow, dam. I wonder if it was their prices that did that.
Crazy prices haven't affected Tangent Theta too much, but the problem with Hensoldt when it started that broad exporting to North America around 2012(?) was that in a lot of ways their scopes were kind of dated when it came to features. The glass quality was still top tier, and the ZF 3.5-26x was best in class for a while with that magnification range and elevation range, but it was way out of the comparable price range at the time (and still is, even though it's discontinued I think). But quickly over time other scope companies released optics with similar features for quite a bit less, so it's no surprise that that their traditional line wasn't selling (high cost, old features) and their top tier optic was really not selling on the commercial side.
Yea, that's kind of what I meant; their prices were too high for what you were getting. Because all the rest of the other expensive guys kinda blossomed here. What confused me was where else were you going to sell super high end tactical rifle scopes, when we;re really the only country doing it lol. I guess they couldn't understand the "make it up in volume" kind of thing. Too bad cuz I really liked them.
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If you lived in western Europe at the time, Zeiss/Hensoldt scopes were priced comparable to S&B, so they weren't crazy at all. Prices do weird things when you import stuff.
I used my friend’s Hensoldt 3-12x56 FF in 2008 when my partner and I placed 2nd in the multi-day FinnSniper competition, which was great.
That was an excellent 3-12x in the late 2000s, 16 years ago.
That was an excellent 3-12x in the late 2000s, 16 years ago.
Sad they never made good on their 1-8 lpvo
I'm pretty sure you can buy those, they just come with slightly different knurling, engraving, and they say Minox on them.
That is awesome. Few questions; GA precision was making rifles that long ago? lol. And secondly, your unit had GA precision AR's?
This was before GAP did the GAP-10 series. I sent George my receivers, BCG, barrel extension, FCG, JP handguard, RET, buffer, spring, and other small parts and asked him to do a nice pipe, profile, and reliability/accuracy build. He used an Obermeyer pipe, fluted it, and that rifle shoots lights-out. I later did them same thing for .260 Rem, which he used a Bartlein for, which is also a laser.
I was originally looking for a partner from the US to go shoot FinnSniper with me for my 2nd time at that event, but couldn’t find anyone due to people’s deployment schedules, so I just planned on attending as an observer. A few days before the competition started, my buddies (who organized it) told me there was an Irish guy who had been with Royal Marines as a Sniper who was in the same boat as I was, and did I want to attend the competition with him last-minute. We got together in Helsinki, did some rehearsals for shooter/spotter communication, TGT detection/engagement sequences, then confirmed zeroes, and drove up to Lohtaja and just had a good time.
Mick is very competitive and really wanted to win, and we got along well throughout the events, but knew we were likely to place mid-pack. When we ran in from the final Land Nav course (you basically have to book it and run the whole thing if you want to place high in that event), they told us that we probably placed 2nd overall. We were shocked and pleasantly-surprised. Mick did a lot better on the long-range stages because he was shooting .25-06 pushing 115gr Bergers at 3050fps if I recall in an AI Chassis Rem700 set-up. I was shooting 155gr Scenars at 2820fps.
I had lived in Finland from 2005-2006 already, had competed in Häyhä in 2007 with another buddy in the Finnish Sniping community using an LR-308 that malf’d on me a bunch, so I knew I wanted something that would run and shoot well, hence my going to GAP for a solution when I came back from that.
I had already heard from one of my contacts who went to Russia 8x per year that Putin was planning on re-taking all former Tsarist territories, so I had been working with the Finns since 2005. The contact had mentioned that Russia was going to take Georgia, Dagestan, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland as part of the new expansionist policies in Putin’s administration, but I wondered if he was just an old Soviet-era blowhard.
I did Observer duty at the Häyhä competition immediately after this FinnSniper comp, then went to Estonia to act as an Observer-Controller for Erna Raid.
Right as Erna Raid finished up, Putin invaded Georgia, which was on the list that the Russian Foreign Ministry contact had said would be invaded, so that really got my attention.
Within months of that, I had the opportunity to go somewhere that allowed me the unique circumstance of being able to take photos of some of the captured gear and weapons used by Georgia, that the Russians put in their Central Red Army War Museum:
Here’s their recollection of how they were invaded by "Fascist Finland" in WWII as well in the same museum:
2008-2009 was packed some very interesting events I never thought I would see, that’s for sure. Sorry for the derail. This was supposed to be about the Hensoldt scopes I think. Lol
Awesome report. Going back for the 5th time this year myself. Never did place higher than 10th though, back when there were 35 teams and many international ones. After covid the competition took a big hit with regards to international teams applying. Last year our team was the only international team.
Awesome! I love to hear about the military in Europe. It was fun. Was all this while you were active duty? How'd you get time off to do all this shit? Your CO must have been awesome. And you had POW's while stationed in Germany? I'm SO confused.
Not to mention that it was only available in CW elevation adjust and had a terrible reticle. I would have bought one had it been CCW and had a more modern reticle.
I suspect my opinion might be a little unpopular, but optically Hensoldt was always a little overrated.
I tested several of them over the years. 3-12x56 and 4-16x56 were quite good, but not the best. The eyepieces were excellent. Turrets tracked but the feel was subpar. Reticles were very outdated. Optically, they were midpack for the category. 6-24x72 was unique and I was sorry to see it go, but Hensodlt never released it in FFP aside from the ridiculously priced SAM version. In low light, the 6-24x72 was exceptional, but SFP was a turn off. These were all designed when they were a part of Zeiss.
Then, they made 3.5-26x56 for particularly military tender. Optically, it was always subpar starting with the first prototype onward. Final version was OK, but not close to the best. Turret feel was always crap with minor improvements toward the end.
To be fair, Hensoldt always tried to make a short scope with a large objective, which is like starting with a handicap.
Fundamentally, Hensoldt never really cared about the commercial market and never put any effort into making those scopes optimized for that. Zeiss sold Hensoldt to Airbus, which later spun off as Cassisdian. Now, Hensoldt is a standalone sensing company. With every one of those transitions, they got yet another step away from caring about the civilian world.
At this stage, day optics are an infinitesimally small part of what Hensoldt does. In theory, they could go back into the riflescope world, but unless there is a lucrative government world to go after, it is hard to imagine them doing it.
The competition is very strong. Contract values are trivial for Hensoldt compared to the sensing world.
When they wanted to bid on an LPVO contract, they took GSO's design, rather than try to develop one internally.
Hensodlt has an office in the US to deal with the military stuff. The name is iconic in the riflescope world, so if they wanted to re-enter the market, they could. However, that would require someone high up to champion it internally.
ILya
I tested several of them over the years. 3-12x56 and 4-16x56 were quite good, but not the best. The eyepieces were excellent. Turrets tracked but the feel was subpar. Reticles were very outdated. Optically, they were midpack for the category. 6-24x72 was unique and I was sorry to see it go, but Hensodlt never released it in FFP aside from the ridiculously priced SAM version. In low light, the 6-24x72 was exceptional, but SFP was a turn off. These were all designed when they were a part of Zeiss.
Then, they made 3.5-26x56 for particularly military tender. Optically, it was always subpar starting with the first prototype onward. Final version was OK, but not close to the best. Turret feel was always crap with minor improvements toward the end.
To be fair, Hensoldt always tried to make a short scope with a large objective, which is like starting with a handicap.
Fundamentally, Hensoldt never really cared about the commercial market and never put any effort into making those scopes optimized for that. Zeiss sold Hensoldt to Airbus, which later spun off as Cassisdian. Now, Hensoldt is a standalone sensing company. With every one of those transitions, they got yet another step away from caring about the civilian world.
At this stage, day optics are an infinitesimally small part of what Hensoldt does. In theory, they could go back into the riflescope world, but unless there is a lucrative government world to go after, it is hard to imagine them doing it.
The competition is very strong. Contract values are trivial for Hensoldt compared to the sensing world.
When they wanted to bid on an LPVO contract, they took GSO's design, rather than try to develop one internally.
Hensodlt has an office in the US to deal with the military stuff. The name is iconic in the riflescope world, so if they wanted to re-enter the market, they could. However, that would require someone high up to champion it internally.
ILya
100%
Another 100%
My bet is they never will. The fan boys will need to adjust.
For Erna as an OC, you wore a cloth shoulder brassard to denote you from participating teams.
A Finnish Marine SGM and I were OCs for an Estonian counter-action forces Armored unit riding around with them in Pasi APCs (they got them from Finland, it’s an awesome APC). Our main job was to make sure the ROE was followed when counter-action (OPFOR) came in contact with the Teams. Erna is an international long-range surveillance competition. We had Teams from Germany, Belgium, US, Estonia, and several other NATO nations, as well as the Chicoms, which was odd. We also had Danes, Swedes, and Finns on staff. Here’s one of the Danish OCs inspecting the packing lists of one of the female Estonian teams. You can see the Chicoms waiting behind the taped-off area.
That sucks to hear. Ive only used a few of them in the past and i always thought they were nice, though I had nothing to compare them to at the time so... I also liked them because of their history. I hope they make a comeback one day.
Are in you the Guard in NJ? I’m trying to think how many FinnSnipers and Häyhä competitions I did.
Häyhä 2007
FinnSniper 2008
Häyhä 2008
Häyhä 2009
FinnSniper 2010
FinnSniper 2012
They kinda have. I only know one, a former sniper. He now likes his Nightforce stuff and Leupold.
In Finland in the dead of winter, we were watching constellations and planets translate through the FOV using the Mil reticle to calculate the earth’s rotation. Amazing spotting scopes in terms of glass quality, FOV, and resolution. We were out hunting those little deer they have that look like puppies compared to our mulies here in the Mountain West US, but it was still a great time.
Looked like this if I recall:
Hensoldt Spotter is an excellent spotter for shooters. In terms of pure image quality, the best from Howa and Swaro are better. However, Hensoldt, whether in the Spotter 60 or Spotter 45 guise, is still very good optically and has really large depth of field. For scanning and for watching bullet trace, depth of field is a huge advatnage. Unfortunately, Hensoldt spotter are not really available any more. Sector's upcoming S1 spotter is a similar design-wise with a few additional tricks up its sleeve.
Still, I was very sorry to see Hensoldt's spotters pulled from the US market.
Years ago, I convinced @Covertnoob5 to buy one and he has not regretted it (his wallet hates me though).
ILya
Still, I was very sorry to see Hensoldt's spotters pulled from the US market.
Years ago, I convinced @Covertnoob5 to buy one and he has not regretted it (his wallet hates me though).
ILya
That spotter has been all over the country with me and I’ve loved every second of it. It has been amazing at every scenario and match I’ve put it through. Trace is remarkable and honestly that spotter allowed my buddy and I to see hits at 600 yds on a swinger rack at the local range with Vudoo .22’s and center X lot tested ammo. Ilya knows this range very well. The impacts were impressively small and the plate hardly moved but the Spotter 60 allowed me to see it and I’ve got the video somewhere.
My wallet still hates you….
I am not afraid of your wallet. You should see the hate mail I get from wives and girlfriends when I talk people into buying Tangents. There is a reason I maintain two fake addresses... (oh, and you should spend some time with the new 7-35x56 Tangent. I had it side by side with the 8-40x ZCO and this will not score me any points with your wallet).
All jokes aside, there is an interesting thing that happens when the image has a lot of depth in it. Your brain has more coherent information to work with, so it can extract lots of detail. That's why the picture looks so three dimensional.
ILya
Dearest ILya,
You shut your mouth...
I think it might have been my 3-12 you tested in the long-long-ago... and I still love that scope. For a hunting rifle, it is awesome, easiest scope I have to get behind, low light performance is great, and I don't need a complex reticle - I been trained...
For many applications, it is not near the top of the list - and I do worry what happens if it breaks, I don't know where or to whom it goes for that (Hudisco was my last experience in that regard, and it was not a good one.)
I have a friend with the 6-24x72 and he easily gets an extra few minutes of shooting light, compared to scopes of a lesser Hubble-like size.
In the end, Hensoldt was a very good optic that flamed out due to corporate decisions. I still love mine, but would not buy a new or recommend one (unless you find a used 6-24x72 for a decent price - get that for sure...)
Warmest regards...
That one scope was amazeballs - nothing else like it since.
I have looked at a couple of 3-12x56 scopes, one FFP and one SFP. Wasn't yours the SFP one?
I have also looked at three different 4-16x56 models, all FFP, two 6-24x72 models (one regular SFP and the other FFP SAM) and one 6-24x56 (also SFP, I think).
Optically, the 6-24x56 was the weakest of the bunch. 3-12x56 was probably the best optimized since it is easier to control CA at lower magnifications. 6-24x72 was impressive in low light, although there was weird flare under certain conditions.
If Hensoldt wanted to hit the civilian market and develop the product line further, they had every chance to do well with it. However, Zeiss kept on treating Hensodlt like a red-headed step child. Once they sold it Airbus, it was the beginning of the end for Hensold in the civilian world.
ILya
Mine was SFP, perfect for hunting, when longer shots usually allow more time.
The 3-12 SFP is an awesome hunting scope, for being almost 20 years old…
The 3-12 SFP is an awesome hunting scope, for being almost 20 years old…
My Spotter45 is like Brand New, my Spotter 60 is beat to snot and still looks amazing they are the best spotters ever made
Wow, those are tits for sure. You wont see those being sold 2nd hand anytime soon will you. Were they rare in their hey day?
Just expensive, Euro Optics used to sell them, they had several for a while,
I know I recently got rails from them
I know I recently got rails from them
I got my Spotter 60 in New Zealand when the one guy who was importing them couldn't sell many (Kiwis are crazy frugal). Was the best $3800 NZD I ever spent. They weren't rare in the 2010s, but they sure are rare now, though one sat in the PX for several weeks.
Just an FYI, but Chad at LRI is making rails for those that need them, and can't get them anymore from Hendsoldt.
