- Thread starter TWOMANATTACK
- Start date
Japanese Arisaka.
A pic of the markings will tell which model.
A pic of the markings will tell which model.
Same rifle that my next custom is being built on, if it has a stamp of a GHEY pride flower on its crap and should give it to me to be raped for the action
Bieber-san II
The flower marking has been ground off!
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I agree, it's a Japanese Arisaka Type 99. The flower is a Crhysantemum its the Imperial seal.
A lot of them have the Mum ground off, the reason being is that, as part of the surrender deal, Allied forces were instructed to remove the goofy little flower from all imperial war trophies. something about preserving the emperor's honor or some bullcrap like that.
I question this. I cant expect any war weary GI would have been too happy to be put on a detail to save face for the emperor. I bet that the Japanese workers on the other hand were burning the midnight oil to remove the mum before all the GI's lining up to get their souvenir rifle had a chance to fondle the emperors tool.
It is a type 99. Some were converted to 30/06 and marked US CAL 30 and issued to the ROK. Accuracy is a bit poor, minute of man, on the conversions. Mine was all over the paper at 100 yds. The bores are about 0.312 so a 0.308 US 30 cal is a bit loose in there. If not converted it is 7.7 Japanese.
meh, heard it over a decade ago, and my memory's crap anyways.
Ive heard the same story and for all I know it could be true. If it is true Im surprised with all the reading and shows Ive watched on the Pacific I haven't seen one interview with a vet where he says "...And than we had this chicken shit detail where we had to scrub the blooming anus off all these Arisakas so as not to upset the guy that had been trying to kill us".
it wasnt about saving face for the japanese emperor, it was about us saying fuck you to the emperor and not wanting our Soldiers to bring back his emblam. The way I understand it was the US required the deface to claim it if they shipped the rifles home. The ones that still have the mum are the rifles that were brought back in hand by GI's.
Question I've wondered is why didnt this mentality carry over to europe, we didnt grind off swastikas or waffenamps? because of this it could be believable that the fanatic Japanese were in fact the ones defacing the rifles, which in itself is a little out there, why would they grind the mum off if this was the case and not destroy the entire rifle?
I think I'm in belief of the first theory in that the postal units required this to ship the rifle, but again why not in europe?
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Every theory is plausible but I am curious why I have never heard/read a GI account of "They gave me this brand new rifle to take home but I had to grind the bluing off to remove the emperors mark - pissed me off I was making it into my new deer rifle the Biebersan". I think a good number of Arisakas we see now are the "souvenir" ones the occupation troops were permitted to get brand new from the box before they got tossed in Tokyo Bay. My matching number "last ditch" that came from a navy man certainly wasnt at Iwo. Mum is ground, but visible, by the way.
I did read one account of a GI seeing the Japanese grinding the mum prior to disposing of the rifles. Whether this was policy of the US to shame the Emperor or desire of the Japanese to save face wasnt pondered in the account. If it was US policy I cant understand why we left the emperor in "power" to spend the next 40 odd years gardening and being pampered, save for the fact not doing so would have had every Japanese decide to fight to the death. At least with him alive talking peace the population came to accept surrender. I think Halsey would have nailed the Showas nuts to a stump and spent every day for the rest of his life pushing him over backwards.
Our feelings toward the Germans were much different than that for the Japanese. Keep in mind German POWs in Texas that accepted surrender were sometimes allowed in town to buy personal items and even made friends in the community. Japanese American CITIZENS relocated from the west coast were lucky to get that freedom. As a guy from the present I am not passing judgement on men of the past. I do recognize though that our feelings toward the Germans were different from those toward the Japanese. Perhaps we recognized Mr Schmelling as the neighborhood butcher but all we knew of Mr Miyagi was Pearl Harbor.
I have heard and read the accounts of U.S. Soldiers grinding off the Mums. It was a deal to save face for the Emperor of Japan so that they could accept surrender terms. I have also watched a number of documentaries on it.
The whole point of saving face was so that he could remain the 'demi-god' that he was to his people, and still be respected enough that their army would follow his orders and lay down their arms.
FWIW, there were a lot less G.I.'s dying after the war in Japan than there were in Europe. And the reason it didn't happen in Europe (scrubbing) was you had different commanders calling the shots. Also, Truman didn't finalize either surrender documents. He just approved them after he got them.
This is good. I like the new info as I dont know what the reason was I just havent seen much written on it, only discussions such as this. Id like to read some accounts from people that were there.
Your absolutely right that postwar GI's in Europe faced greater dangers from the beaten foe. We were so comfortable in the defeat of the Japanese that in some cases they maintained their arms and were charged to be defacto police in places like Korea. Couple guys in SE Asia - Ho Chi Minh and Giap really were upset about that arrangement.
I know this thread is a bit old, but I had an interesting encounter with a gentleman about this mum deal.
Couple years ago i was at a gun show in Indianapolis, and I spotted an elderly gentleman carrying around a type 99. I struck up conversation with him about the rifle and looked it over. It had the mum intact. I asked him where he got it and he said "from the Jap that shot at me with it." Gotta love an old vet's way with words!! We started talking about the mum being ground off on a lot here in the states. He told me if you captured it in the field and wanted to bring it home, it came as-is. The ones with the mum ground off were done after the surrender at captured factories and arsenals and handed out.
If I hadn't blown my wad on an 03A4 bolt and a bunch of ammo, I would have bought his rifle and had him autograph the stock. Still regret I didn't.
Greg
Couple years ago i was at a gun show in Indianapolis, and I spotted an elderly gentleman carrying around a type 99. I struck up conversation with him about the rifle and looked it over. It had the mum intact. I asked him where he got it and he said "from the Jap that shot at me with it." Gotta love an old vet's way with words!! We started talking about the mum being ground off on a lot here in the states. He told me if you captured it in the field and wanted to bring it home, it came as-is. The ones with the mum ground off were done after the surrender at captured factories and arsenals and handed out.
If I hadn't blown my wad on an 03A4 bolt and a bunch of ammo, I would have bought his rifle and had him autograph the stock. Still regret I didn't.
Greg
