Gunsmithing anyone know where to find a titanium action
- Thread starter tjonh2001
- Start date
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
They have a Remington Alaskan Ti. at a dealer lcal to me...for 2000$ or so.
I don't think it's really worth it.
Titanium has properties that are terrible for a rifle.
It work hardens and becomes brittle over time.
It will gall when used with any other type metal (aluminum or steel).
It has a high modulous of elasticity (it flexes a whole bunch).
When it gets above a certain temperature oxygen will bind with the titanium and it can shatter or blister.
I'm sure you can probably wiki up that sorta stuff easily enough.
I don't know if Remington is using 6v-4al or 3v-2.5al titanium, but it really doesn't matter in the long run, they both have the same properties one just flexes a bit more :|
They have a Remington Alaskan Ti. at a dealer lcal to me...for 2000$ or so.
I don't think it's really worth it.
Titanium has properties that are terrible for a rifle.
It work hardens and becomes brittle over time.
It will gall when used with any other type metal (aluminum or steel).
It has a high modulous of elasticity (it flexes a whole bunch).
When it gets above a certain temperature oxygen will bind with the titanium and it can shatter or blister.
I'm sure you can probably wiki up that sorta stuff easily enough.
I don't know if Remington is using 6v-4al or 3v-2.5al titanium, but it really doesn't matter in the long run, they both have the same properties one just flexes a bit more :|
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
I think if Ti has worked for many years in turbine engine compressor blades or....how long did the SR71 fly? The heat and friction caused by cycling a bolt handle on a rifle would be many orders of magnituide less than the heat, stress & strain imparted in these aerospace applications. No issue.
And from Wikipedia: "The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal. In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter". Sounds like good properties to me.....
I believe it is a little tougher to machine, but would not think an unreasonable question from tjonh2000. You application probably dictates whether it is worth it, if you are building a lightweight hunting rifle with a short/thin taper barrel the weight savings may be worth it. If you are building a tactical/target rifle with a heavy barrel it will provide a very small weight savings, fluting the barrel would save more weight.
Heck, if you "just want one", nothing wrong with that; show us the pictures when you're done! If I come across one I'll send you a PM - the only ones I am aware of are Remington 700 based actions.
I think if Ti has worked for many years in turbine engine compressor blades or....how long did the SR71 fly? The heat and friction caused by cycling a bolt handle on a rifle would be many orders of magnituide less than the heat, stress & strain imparted in these aerospace applications. No issue.
And from Wikipedia: "The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal. In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter". Sounds like good properties to me.....
I believe it is a little tougher to machine, but would not think an unreasonable question from tjonh2000. You application probably dictates whether it is worth it, if you are building a lightweight hunting rifle with a short/thin taper barrel the weight savings may be worth it. If you are building a tactical/target rifle with a heavy barrel it will provide a very small weight savings, fluting the barrel would save more weight.
Heck, if you "just want one", nothing wrong with that; show us the pictures when you're done! If I come across one I'll send you a PM - the only ones I am aware of are Remington 700 based actions.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
Titanium actually has a low modulus of elasticity compared with steel. If you were to build a titanium receiver using the exact dimensions as steel, it would be more flexible than a steel receiver. However since it is less dense, you can design one to be equal strength, it would be bigger but still weighs less.
Titanium actually has a low modulus of elasticity compared with steel. If you were to build a titanium receiver using the exact dimensions as steel, it would be more flexible than a steel receiver. However since it is less dense, you can design one to be equal strength, it would be bigger but still weighs less.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
Calling it "low" is a bit misleading, it is within the same order of magnitude as steel, and it would depend on the alloy you are looking at.
The guy just asked where to find an action....
Calling it "low" is a bit misleading, it is within the same order of magnitude as steel, and it would depend on the alloy you are looking at.
The guy just asked where to find an action....
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
I can keep my eyes open locally.
FWIW, one will find a few titanium rifles on Gun Broker most days. Mostly Brownings, but at least a couple Remingtons, if that's what you'd prefer.
I can keep my eyes open locally.
FWIW, one will find a few titanium rifles on Gun Broker most days. Mostly Brownings, but at least a couple Remingtons, if that's what you'd prefer.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if Ti has worked for many years in turbine engine compressor blades or....how long did the SR71 fly? The heat and friction caused by cycling a bolt handle on a rifle would be many orders of magnituide less than the heat, stress & strain imparted in these aerospace applications. No issue.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Irrelevant. Those applications mean nothing in this discussion. you might also want to read up on the inspection and replacement processes for aerospace applications.....</span>
And from Wikipedia: "The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal. In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter". Sounds like good properties to me.....
<span style="color: #FF0000">Anyone can pick and chose what to ignore. You need to look at ALL the properties of the materiel.</span>
I believe it is a little tougher to machine,
<span style="color: #FF0000">"Little"? I've never heard anyone who works with it say that
</span>
but would not think an unreasonable question from tjonh2000.
<span style="color: #FF0000">and in return he got informed advice. Which was to spend the money on everything else, likely end up with a lighter gun for cheaper
</span>
You application probably dictates whether it is worth it, if you are building a lightweight hunting rifle with a short/thin taper barrel the weight savings may be worth it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Not really. For the money you spend on the action you get much greater weight savings on everything else.
OTOH, if he's already got THE lightest of everything then it might be worth it. How light does he want to go though? We can buy 6.5 pound rifles off the shelf. How light is light?</span>
If you are building a tactical/target rifle with a heavy barrel it will provide a very small weight savings, fluting the barrel would save more weight.
Heck, if you "just want one", nothing wrong with that; show us the pictures when you're done! If I come across one I'll send you a PM - the only ones I am aware of are Remington 700 based actions. </div></div>
Informed advice was offered by people who know a fair bit about the subject. Now, if he just wants one because it's different then that's fine. What he got was helpful advice in case he didn't know any better and thought Titanium offered much.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if Ti has worked for many years in turbine engine compressor blades or....how long did the SR71 fly? The heat and friction caused by cycling a bolt handle on a rifle would be many orders of magnituide less than the heat, stress & strain imparted in these aerospace applications. No issue.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Irrelevant. Those applications mean nothing in this discussion. you might also want to read up on the inspection and replacement processes for aerospace applications.....</span>
And from Wikipedia: "The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal. In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter". Sounds like good properties to me.....
<span style="color: #FF0000">Anyone can pick and chose what to ignore. You need to look at ALL the properties of the materiel.</span>
I believe it is a little tougher to machine,
<span style="color: #FF0000">"Little"? I've never heard anyone who works with it say that
but would not think an unreasonable question from tjonh2000.
<span style="color: #FF0000">and in return he got informed advice. Which was to spend the money on everything else, likely end up with a lighter gun for cheaper
You application probably dictates whether it is worth it, if you are building a lightweight hunting rifle with a short/thin taper barrel the weight savings may be worth it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Not really. For the money you spend on the action you get much greater weight savings on everything else.
OTOH, if he's already got THE lightest of everything then it might be worth it. How light does he want to go though? We can buy 6.5 pound rifles off the shelf. How light is light?</span>
If you are building a tactical/target rifle with a heavy barrel it will provide a very small weight savings, fluting the barrel would save more weight.
Heck, if you "just want one", nothing wrong with that; show us the pictures when you're done! If I come across one I'll send you a PM - the only ones I am aware of are Remington 700 based actions. </div></div>
Informed advice was offered by people who know a fair bit about the subject. Now, if he just wants one because it's different then that's fine. What he got was helpful advice in case he didn't know any better and thought Titanium offered much.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
I have a "almost finished" titanium flat bottom receiver that'll probably never come to fruition. it's a .600 bolt OD intended for smaller cartridges. Receiver ring is done (threaded, lug surfaces finished) and the raceways are done (wire EDM)
If you have a shop a couple weekends could have it completed.
PM if interested.
Material is aerospace certified 6AL-4V titanium.
As far as the material.
I've built a few guns on titanium actions and I worked with it while working in a few job shops in CA and CO. It's taught me a few things.
Basically, titanium and Stainless are sort of "kissing cousins". The stuff tends to be "gummy" when machining. If you go blazing away at it your likely going to turn your tooling into something that resembles one of the cooling rods buried at the bottom of the pit where Chernobyl once stood. It'll work harden pretty easy. (it can also be quite violent as the chips ARE flamable. Produce a spark and your going to be stoning your mill table to get all the damn pits off.-Use a flood coolant!) The remedy? Use the appropriate tooling and the proper speeds/feeds. A relatively low RPM and a fairly aggressive feed rate is a general starting point. Best to research the recommendations by the tooling manufacturers.
It's a little prone to galling, just like a lot of stainless steels. Dilligent use/application of lubricant will help with mitigating this but the best solution I've found is to convert the fire control to a "cock on open only" so that the only thing the bolt does when rotating into battery is fully seat/chamber the cartridge. Cock on open only eliminates additional compression of the striker spring when rotating into battery. Pay a little more attention to the primary extraction and make the mating surfaces between the bolt/receiver as tangent/broad as you can with a good surface finish and it'll deliver a long service life.
If you leave the receiver "in the white" you'll have to be a little more proactive on your PM's. Coated with a porcelain base coating (like Falcon coat, ceracoat, etc) they'll run quite nice.
FWIW I don't think Titanium is used for compressor blades. Inconel and/or Invar is the more common material used. Least thats what I saw them made from when I worked in that field.
Titanium Remington chambered in 280AI.
I have a "almost finished" titanium flat bottom receiver that'll probably never come to fruition. it's a .600 bolt OD intended for smaller cartridges. Receiver ring is done (threaded, lug surfaces finished) and the raceways are done (wire EDM)
If you have a shop a couple weekends could have it completed.
PM if interested.
Material is aerospace certified 6AL-4V titanium.
As far as the material.
I've built a few guns on titanium actions and I worked with it while working in a few job shops in CA and CO. It's taught me a few things.
Basically, titanium and Stainless are sort of "kissing cousins". The stuff tends to be "gummy" when machining. If you go blazing away at it your likely going to turn your tooling into something that resembles one of the cooling rods buried at the bottom of the pit where Chernobyl once stood. It'll work harden pretty easy. (it can also be quite violent as the chips ARE flamable. Produce a spark and your going to be stoning your mill table to get all the damn pits off.-Use a flood coolant!) The remedy? Use the appropriate tooling and the proper speeds/feeds. A relatively low RPM and a fairly aggressive feed rate is a general starting point. Best to research the recommendations by the tooling manufacturers.
It's a little prone to galling, just like a lot of stainless steels. Dilligent use/application of lubricant will help with mitigating this but the best solution I've found is to convert the fire control to a "cock on open only" so that the only thing the bolt does when rotating into battery is fully seat/chamber the cartridge. Cock on open only eliminates additional compression of the striker spring when rotating into battery. Pay a little more attention to the primary extraction and make the mating surfaces between the bolt/receiver as tangent/broad as you can with a good surface finish and it'll deliver a long service life.
If you leave the receiver "in the white" you'll have to be a little more proactive on your PM's. Coated with a porcelain base coating (like Falcon coat, ceracoat, etc) they'll run quite nice.
FWIW I don't think Titanium is used for compressor blades. Inconel and/or Invar is the more common material used. Least thats what I saw them made from when I worked in that field.
Titanium Remington chambered in 280AI.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
I have had two Ti model 98 Mausers and still have one. They are great actions. Only about 15 made so tough to find. Accuracy is very good by any standards. .5 moa to 800 yards.
I have had two Ti model 98 Mausers and still have one. They are great actions. Only about 15 made so tough to find. Accuracy is very good by any standards. .5 moa to 800 yards.
Re: anyone know where to find a titanium action
I have a 700ti that i bought unfired off a buddy for 500 bucks a couple years ago. sat in my safe forever finally made it into my ultra light hunting rig. weighs less than 5lbs with optic and its chambered in 30-06. might be the hardest hitting rifle i have ever fired, esp from prone. I love that damn gun. But like Rundm said, ive seen rem 700ti being sold for 1200-1500 recently.
~2ND
I have a 700ti that i bought unfired off a buddy for 500 bucks a couple years ago. sat in my safe forever finally made it into my ultra light hunting rig. weighs less than 5lbs with optic and its chambered in 30-06. might be the hardest hitting rifle i have ever fired, esp from prone. I love that damn gun. But like Rundm said, ive seen rem 700ti being sold for 1200-1500 recently.
~2ND
