Anyone shooting Berger 130 AR Hybrids with IMR 4451 and H4350 powder in a gas gun?

[ReaperDriver]

I'm just about to get the final part for my .260 AR-10 build (GAP-10 Lower, .260 JP Supermatch barrel/Bolt). F*&king fedex was supposed to deliver the upper yesterday Anyway, I wanted to get some starting load prepped for it to begin my OCW load development. I'll be using virgin lapua brass, Fed 210M primers and IMR 4451 with the Berger 130 AR Hybrid. I've got LOTS of 4451 and 1 jug of H4350, so trying to conserve the H4350 for now and concentrate on the 4451. But I'm happy to hear what H4350 loads you use as well. Ultimate goal is to use the gun for PRS matches and steel out to 1200 yds.

I would be interested to see what loads you guys are using and what sort of speeds you're getting with these combos above. Yes of course I'll do a work up starting low, but wanted to see what to expect on some of the higher nodes. Thanks in advance.

 

[Maxduty]

Yeah, about that delivery.....

 

[Doug k 042414]

I wasn’t able to run them. However, my .260 is not a JP. My Valkyrie is, but I built my .260 with a Lilja barrel. With mine, anytime I ran a VLD style bullet through it, I would have an amazing group followed by 5 that really sucked. Plus I got pressure signs. I had to run a polymer tipped bullet that was lighter at a faster speed. I went with ELD-Ms with RL 16. I was initially running 136 lapua scenars with H4350. My main issue I ran into was that the feed ramps were designed for .308 diameter bullets and the .264 bullets passed right through and struck the barrel prior to gaining enough lift before chambering. And this was all done at mag length and under

I have a buddy who has a lanxing tactical in .260 that can run them. Wish I could. I would load up a dummy round and slowly control chambering the round with the charging handle. This will help you see if you will be able to chamber without incident. Chances are.... you will be good with that JP. They make great stuff!

I'm just about to get the final part for my .260 AR-10 build (GAP-10 Lower, .260 JP Supermatch barrel/Bolt). F*&king fedex was supposed to deliver the upper yesterday Anyway, I wanted to get some starting load prepped for it to begin my OCW load development. I'll be using virgin lapua brass, Fed 210M primers and IMR 4451 with the Berger 130 AR Hybrid. I've got LOTS of 4451 and 1 jug of H4350, so trying to conserve the H4350 for now and concentrate on the 4451. But I'm happy to hear what H4350 loads you use as well. Ultimate goal is to use the gun for PRS matches and steel out to 1200 yds.

I would be interested to see what loads you guys are using and what sort of speeds you're getting with these combos above. Yes of course I'll do a work up starting low, but wanted to see what to expect on some of the higher nodes. Thanks in advance.

 

[ma smith]

Berger AR 130s don't have the VLD shape, or maybe I'm missing something...

 

[dski]

I run Berger 130 AR in my 6.5 creed AR10. Hornady brass, CCI 200. 39.5 grains of H4350. 22" barrel. If memory serves, about 2650fps. Had to really slow it down and got it to be consistently about a .5-.7 group.

 

[rlh_20]

With the “slick” Berger jackets, I got too much set forward when auto feeding and the accuracy went south. I shoot the 123 Scenar’s instead. 130 ELD’s shoot pretty well, just not as good as the Scenar’s though.

 

[Doug k 042414]

Ok. Maybe bad verbiage on my part. Regardless, until someone creates a barrel extension with 6mm and 6.5 mm feed ramps, rounds with longer measurements from Kepler to ogive will have the problem that I did. I only started using the polymer tipped rounds because Dustin at JP (only dude there still shooting .260) said he no longer uses anything with a longer meplat-ogive distance. He started running eld-m rounds and his problems went away. I did the same with the same results

Hopefully that’s a better description

Berger AR 130s don't have the VLD shape, or maybe I'm missing something...

 

[bfk4lyfe]

I would guess h4350 would be in the low 42.x region, figuring you’ll end up around 2800 fps (mine is 22” barrel and factory Berger 130 loaded ammo was just under 2800).

 

[ReaperDriver]

Yeah, about that delivery.....
View attachment 7556982

Haha, I'm so stealing that! Golf clap.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Thanks guys! I appreciate all the good info. I wanted to start low, but I didn't want to start so low on waste bullets and powder down in a node that I'll never shoot. The plan is to primarily shoot this 99% suppressed, so I have the variable mass Carrier along with the silent capture weighted spring. So hopefully that plus tuning the gas port will keep my pressures in check. I know I'm not going to get anywhere near the speeds that my .260 bolt gun. I run 140 Berger Hybrids with 42.3 H4350 and am getting 2915 fps with Lapua brass. I'm hoping I can get the 130s into the low 2800's at least without beating the brass up.

 

[ma smith]

look at the box on berger 130 ar match ammo

 

[sheepdog697]

Yeah, about that delivery.....
View attachment 7556982

Man thats bad. Is that the Texas crash?

 

[Maxduty]

Man thats bad. Is that the Texas crash?

Yes that is. On a side note, I had a fedex delivery here yesterday. 9 inches of snow so far and he still drove up the driveway.

 

[ReaperDriver]

I run Berger 130 AR in my 6.5 creed AR10. Hornady brass, CCI 200. 39.5 grains of H4350. 22" barrel. If memory serves, about 2650fps. Had to really slow it down and got it to be consistently about a .5-.7 group.

Wow, 2650 is SLOW for a .260! I was hoping to be in the 29's or worst case high 28s out of a gas gun with the 130 ARs.

 

[ReaperDriver]

I've scoured the interwebs and am really coming up short on loads for 4451 with the 130 AR Hybrids in a gas gun. Even Hogdon's load data site seems very sparse for info on that combo. They have no data for 4451 at all with a 130gr bullet. The closest I get is a 125 nosler partition.

I plan on just loading to max mag length and a low powder charge and working up. I just didn't want to waste precious bullets and powder starting too low.

 

[bfk4lyfe]

Wow, 2650 is SLOW for a .260! I was hoping to be in the 29's or worst case high 28s out of a gas gun with the 130 ARs.

I'd think you could go higher than that and be safe. Like I said, factory Berger (and Hornady) 130gr ammo were both ~2795 out of my 22" gun.

FWIW I had some 123 eld loads that shot great and were about 2870fps using RL16. Not that you can be picky about components these days.

 

[dski]

Wow, 2650 is SLOW for a .260! I was hoping to be in the 29's or worst case high 28s out of a gas gun with the 130 ARs.

It most certainly is! I worked up so many loads to try and find a higher node but just couldn't get it to shoot. Barrel just didn't like it. Never tried anything but H4350 because I didn't want yet another powder and it started grouping really nice. (for a cheap gas gun) I'll always take the accuracy over some velocity.

 

[alan98]

I built a 6.5 creed on Seekins SP10 receiver set with 22" +2 Craddock Bartlein and it's a hammer with 130 Bergers and 43.0 H4350. Sub .5" groups regularly and only shot it once so far at 600 and 1000. 600 was 2.6" group and about 7" group at 1000 in bad conditions. Brass isn't beat up at all.

 

[Big Moose]

I'm just about to get the final part for my .260 AR-10 build (GAP-10 Lower, .260 JP Supermatch barrel/Bolt). F*&king fedex was supposed to deliver the upper yesterday Anyway, I wanted to get some starting load prepped for it to begin my OCW load development. I'll be using virgin lapua brass, Fed 210M primers and IMR 4451 with the Berger 130 AR Hybrid. I've got LOTS of 4451 and 1 jug of H4350, so trying to conserve the H4350 for now and concentrate on the 4451. But I'm happy to hear what H4350 loads you use as well. Ultimate goal is to use the gun for PRS matches and steel out to 1200 yds.

I would be interested to see what loads you guys are using and what sort of speeds you're getting with these combos above. Yes of course I'll do a work up starting low, but wanted to see what to expect on some of the higher nodes. Thanks in advance.

I've just loaded some of these for the Grendel, obviously can't help with load data for your 260, but this should be a great bullet for your GAP-10. At 2400 fps out of a Grendel it's supersonic just past 1100 yds. That's why they call it the cartridge that starts slow, but ends fast

 

[ReaperDriver]

Thanks again for all the good info.

Another related question..... What other bullets have you guys had success in loading .260 Rem to AR mag length in gas gun? I'm partial to Bergers, but are any of the other lighter bullets like in the 120-125 range good for long distance (1K) out of a Gasser at mag length? What about the 136 Scenars?

 

[ReaperDriver]

look at the box on berger 130 ar match ammo

Uuuh. i have. What am I looking for?

edit: sorry I misread this. I thought you meant on a box of bullets. I don’t have any factory Berger loaded ammo.

 

[ma smith]

I know I'm not going to get anywhere near the speeds that my .260 bolt gun. I run 140 Berger Hybrids with 42.3 H4350 and am getting 2915 fps with Lapua brass. I'm hoping I can get the 130s into the low 2800's at least without beating the brass up.

AFAIK lapua factory ammo is pretty decent guage of performance/ envelope. If you are WAY off one way or the other fromt he box something is up. Maybe others can chime in but it outperforms most 6,5 from what I can see.

 

[lennyo3034]

I use it on a 24" Bartlien. Factory Berger ammo is incredibly accurate and velocity of 2910 with SD under 10. Significant pressure signs though so I try not shoot it as much.

My handloads are 41.5 H4350 and that pushes 2800, still a little on the hot side. The barrel likes speed though as when I reduce powder charge, accuracy and SDs degrade significantly.

 

[ReaperDriver]

I use it on a 24" Bartlien. Factory Berger ammo is incredibly accurate and velocity of 2910 with SD under 10. Significant pressure signs though so I try not shoot it as much.

My handloads are 41.5 H4350 and that pushes 2800, still a little on the hot side. The barrel likes speed though as when I reduce powder charge, accuracy and SDs degrade significantly.

Is that a gas gun or bolt?

 

[BrienM]

I had a DPMS 308 a few years ago. I was using 210M primers but it slam fired occasionally. I switched to standard primers and never had any more issues with that.. It had a floating firing pin. Not sure if your rig will or not but the match primers were said to be slightly softer. It could have been me or a fluke. Your results may vary..

 

[padom]

Ok. Maybe bad verbiage on my part. Regardless, until someone creates a barrel extension with 6mm and 6.5 mm feed ramps, rounds with longer measurements from Kepler to ogive will have the problem that I did. I only started using the polymer tipped rounds because Dustin at JP (only dude there still shooting .260) said he no longer uses anything with a longer meplat-ogive distance. He started running eld-m rounds and his problems went away. I did the same with the same results

Hopefully that’s a better description

This couldnt be more false.. Ive built 25-30+ 6.5cm large frame gassers and lots of my testing is here on the site. Ive seen the jammed bullet a million times from 6.5 AR chamber mouths that werent properly cut... I use JP QPQ barrel extensions on all my large frame gassers and the key is to have a proper feed cone machined into the chamber mouth so you dont stab bullet tips into the back of the barrel tenon and jam up..

I havent had any jammed bullets in any of my large frame gassers over 10's of thousands of rounds. Ive tested everything from 140 ELD, 140 Amax, 139L Scenars, 130 ELD, 130 GT, 130 Hybrids, 123L Scenars, 123 Amax and all shoot excellent with zero issues.

Im using KAC and ASC SS mags to allow for max COAL (2.875"). Tuning large from 6.5 gassers is the key to get them to run right and smooth.

For 140 Amax and ELD's.... 41gr - 42.8gr H4350 2650-2744 all out of 22" Bartlein

130 Hybrids - 42 - 43.2gr H4350 (43.2gr is my load) 2741

123L Sceneras 42.4gr H4350 2847


Youre going to be a little higher in the charge weight with 260rem from my 6.5cm numbers above, but they should give you a good starting point.

 

[lennyo3034]

Is that a gas gun or bolt?

Gas Gun.

Trying to find a lower pressure load but accuracy seems to drop off.

 

[ReaperDriver]

This couldnt be more false.. Ive built 25-30+ 6.5cm large frame gassers and lots of my testing is here on the site. Ive seen the jammed bullet a million times from 6.5 AR chamber mouths that werent properly cut... I use JP QPQ barrel extensions on all my large frame gassers and the key is to have a proper feed cone machined into the chamber mouth so you dont stab bullet tips into the back of the barrel tenon and jam up..

I havent had any jammed bullets in any of my large frame gassers over 10's of thousands of rounds. Ive tested everything from 140 ELD, 140 Amax, 139L Scenars, 130 ELD, 130 GT, 130 Hybrids, 123L Scenars, 123 Amax and all shoot excellent with zero issues.

Im using KAC and ASC SS mags to allow for max COAL (2.875"). Tuning large from 6.5 gassers is the key to get them to run right and smooth.

For 140 Amax and ELD's.... 41gr - 42.8gr H4350 2650-2744 all out of 22" Bartlein

130 Hybrids - 42 - 43.2gr H4350 (43.2gr is my load) 2741

123L Sceneras 42.4gr H4350 2847


Youre going to be a little higher in the charge weight with 260rem from my 6.5cm numbers above, but they should give you a good starting point.

Hey @padom on your 43.2 H4350 / AR 130 Hybrid load - are you loading to the your max OAL of 2.875" also? I just began load development on my brand new virgin .260 gasser yesterday and I worked up to 43.2 in Virgin Lapua brass as my max for the day. I got 2868 fps (using a LabRadar). However, I only have Pmags at the moment so I was stuck loading them quite short at 2.815. I was just getting some pressure signs at that load. I got some good results down in the lower nodes around 2770 with a 42.0gr load. But unfortunately the groups really opened when I got into the 2800s.

I think my loads even at Pmag length of 2.815 were jammed in the lands, because I tried to unchamber one loaded round and I really had to hammer the bolt handle to get it to open and I measured the chambered round and it came out of the chamber at 2.9 something. So I'm going to measure where the contact is and load slightly less from there - but guessing it'll be under 2.800. Is that normal for a match chamber to be so short even in a large frame gas gun? I hoping if I load the Hybrids with a tiny bit of jump, the pressure will go back down a bit and I can work to find a higher node. Or do you think I should stick in the mid 2700s and call it a day?

btw - no issue at all with function. Chambering and feeding was fine once I got the gas block tuned.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Gas Gun.

Trying to find a lower pressure load but accuracy seems to drop off.

Gotcha. I'm seeing the same thing with accuracy really sucking at the higher speeds with the gas gun. Which is exactly the opposite from my .260 AI-AT bolt gun. It likes to go fast with the 140 Hybrids. 2910 and its a hammer with a 42.3gr H4350 load. But ofc I can load those really long at 2.970 and still be mag length in the AI.

 

[ReaperDriver]

130 Hybrids - 42 - 43.2gr H4350 (43.2gr is my load) 2741

123L Sceneras 42.4gr H4350 2847


Youre going to be a little higher in the charge weight with 260rem from my 6.5cm numbers above, but they should give you a good starting point.

Sorry one last question..... How do you like the 123s in the gas gun compared to the 130 Hybrids? I've got some 123 ELD-Ms to try out. Especially for PRS style matches? Is there and advantage of one over the other?

 

[padom]

Sorry one last question..... How do you like the 123s in the gas gun compared to the 130 Hybrids? I've got some 123 ELD-Ms to try out. Especially for PRS style matches? Is there and advantage of one over the other?

I love the 123L they are awesome. But 130 Hybrids shoot lights out in mine too

 

[ReaperDriver]

I love the 123L they are awesome. But 130 Hybrids shoot lights out in mine too

that’s really good to hear. I’ll try the 123 ELDs and start trying to source some Lapuas. Do you have a preference for one over the other at say 600 and in vs 800-1000+?