So this isn't supposed to be a real in depth question, just something I'm curious about the "what if" scenario that's presented by the "good guys" after shootings occur. Basically, how are police going to recognize good vs. bad in these situations? Would be rough luck to try and help out if you were shot up in the confusion. Also, the Lefties are all about claiming that those theater conditions wouldn't have allowed for an armed citizen to respond effectively. My counter is that our military does that very thing every day, just plain grunts. A loud and smokey theater can't be an worse than MOUT, right?
- Thread starter kellogg2185
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Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
In the event of an active shooter incident, where I am forced to take action, I have instructed my girlfriend she is to call the local authorities and give the dispatcher the suspects description, and have the dispatcher repeat that description to her. Also, she is to give my clothing description to the dispatcher and have the dispatcher repeat it back to her, and advise the dispatcher that I am an LEO and have a firearm. That way, the responding officers have the descriptions they need and not necessarily arriving "blind". Also, if I have (hopefully) taken care of the problem, where my location is in relation to the entrances/exits, or if I have the suspect pinned down or sectioned off, where I am for the responding officers to link up with me. It may seem like a lot of time wasting between getting the descriptions and having them repeated, but I would rather the information be given out and be accurate than like some of the calls I get where, "Shots fired at X location, no description given, no longer on the phone with the caller".
In the event of an active shooter incident, where I am forced to take action, I have instructed my girlfriend she is to call the local authorities and give the dispatcher the suspects description, and have the dispatcher repeat that description to her. Also, she is to give my clothing description to the dispatcher and have the dispatcher repeat it back to her, and advise the dispatcher that I am an LEO and have a firearm. That way, the responding officers have the descriptions they need and not necessarily arriving "blind". Also, if I have (hopefully) taken care of the problem, where my location is in relation to the entrances/exits, or if I have the suspect pinned down or sectioned off, where I am for the responding officers to link up with me. It may seem like a lot of time wasting between getting the descriptions and having them repeated, but I would rather the information be given out and be accurate than like some of the calls I get where, "Shots fired at X location, no description given, no longer on the phone with the caller".
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
I was more or less looking for a bit of an education from the LEO guys on here. Good advice as far as talking to dispatch, however. I was hoping it's a bit more than naively believing in officers dilligently practicing their shoot/don't shoot drills...
I was more or less looking for a bit of an education from the LEO guys on here. Good advice as far as talking to dispatch, however. I was hoping it's a bit more than naively believing in officers dilligently practicing their shoot/don't shoot drills...
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
are you serious?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wear one of these
</div></div>
are you serious?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wear one of these
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
As far as the LEO in your area practicing and being proficient in Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios, don't put all your eggs in that basket. If you have a gun in your hands when the Police/Sheriff/State show up, don't get all butthurt when they tell you to get on the ground and put you in handcuffs for safety. If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, the best thing to do is be a good witness. If you are faced with the decision to use deadly force, then use it to protect yourself and your family. If you are still exchanging gunfire with a suspect when the police arrive, I would venture to say that things have gone past bad and are strongly in the worst case category. You have to remember, unless it's just a stroke of luck, the police are going to be at least a couple of minutes away. If you can't put the bad guy down, or at least get him to flee the area in a few seconds, then you are either dealing with a well prepared individual or a very mentally ill individual or both.
Will there ever be a sitation where you are engaging a suspect and a police officer happens to be right there? Sure, it can happen. But just make damn sure you have your facts in a row, and DO NOT try and plead your case with a gun in your hand when the officer is telling you to drop your weapon. What will get you shot faster than anything is to have a gun in your hand and refuse to follow commands. Use your head and pay attention. Even if you can't hear what you are being told, when the men with badges show up, your gun goes down, and your hands go up. Be as nonthreatening as possible. Keep your hands up and point with your nose if you need to show where the bad guy is.
As far as the LEO in your area practicing and being proficient in Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios, don't put all your eggs in that basket. If you have a gun in your hands when the Police/Sheriff/State show up, don't get all butthurt when they tell you to get on the ground and put you in handcuffs for safety. If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, the best thing to do is be a good witness. If you are faced with the decision to use deadly force, then use it to protect yourself and your family. If you are still exchanging gunfire with a suspect when the police arrive, I would venture to say that things have gone past bad and are strongly in the worst case category. You have to remember, unless it's just a stroke of luck, the police are going to be at least a couple of minutes away. If you can't put the bad guy down, or at least get him to flee the area in a few seconds, then you are either dealing with a well prepared individual or a very mentally ill individual or both.
Will there ever be a sitation where you are engaging a suspect and a police officer happens to be right there? Sure, it can happen. But just make damn sure you have your facts in a row, and DO NOT try and plead your case with a gun in your hand when the officer is telling you to drop your weapon. What will get you shot faster than anything is to have a gun in your hand and refuse to follow commands. Use your head and pay attention. Even if you can't hear what you are being told, when the men with badges show up, your gun goes down, and your hands go up. Be as nonthreatening as possible. Keep your hands up and point with your nose if you need to show where the bad guy is.
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
Wise advise here. During an Active Shooter, you get one command to put your weapon down. The next one will be a volly of rounds in your ass! There is no negotiating.. Unless you can put the guy down under a minute, your best bet is to be a witness. Trust me, the cops WILL NOT get in trouble for plugging your ass..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TLong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the LEO in your area practicing and being proficient in Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios, don't put all your eggs in that basket. If you have a gun in your hands when the Police/Sheriff/State show up, don't get all butthurt when they tell you to get on the ground and put you in handcuffs for safety. If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, the best thing to do is be a good witness. If you are faced with the decision to use deadly force, then use it to protect yourself and your family. If you are still exchanging gunfire with a suspect when the police arrive, I would venture to say that things have gone past bad and are strongly in the worst case category. You have to remember, unless it's just a stroke of luck, the police are going to be at least a couple of minutes away. If you can't put the bad guy down, or at least get him to flee the area in a few seconds, then you are either dealing with a well prepared individual or a very mentally ill individual or both.
Will there ever be a sitation where you are engaging a suspect and a police officer happens to be right there? Sure, it can happen. But just make damn sure you have your facts in a row, and DO NOT try and plead your case with a gun in your hand when the officer is telling you to drop your weapon. What will get you shot faster than anything is to have a gun in your hand and refuse to follow commands. Use your head and pay attention. Even if you can't hear what you are being told, when the men with badges show up, your gun goes down, and your hands go up. Be as nonthreatening as possible. Keep your hands up and point with your nose if you need to show where the bad guy is. </div></div>
Wise advise here. During an Active Shooter, you get one command to put your weapon down. The next one will be a volly of rounds in your ass! There is no negotiating.. Unless you can put the guy down under a minute, your best bet is to be a witness. Trust me, the cops WILL NOT get in trouble for plugging your ass..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TLong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the LEO in your area practicing and being proficient in Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios, don't put all your eggs in that basket. If you have a gun in your hands when the Police/Sheriff/State show up, don't get all butthurt when they tell you to get on the ground and put you in handcuffs for safety. If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, the best thing to do is be a good witness. If you are faced with the decision to use deadly force, then use it to protect yourself and your family. If you are still exchanging gunfire with a suspect when the police arrive, I would venture to say that things have gone past bad and are strongly in the worst case category. You have to remember, unless it's just a stroke of luck, the police are going to be at least a couple of minutes away. If you can't put the bad guy down, or at least get him to flee the area in a few seconds, then you are either dealing with a well prepared individual or a very mentally ill individual or both.
Will there ever be a sitation where you are engaging a suspect and a police officer happens to be right there? Sure, it can happen. But just make damn sure you have your facts in a row, and DO NOT try and plead your case with a gun in your hand when the officer is telling you to drop your weapon. What will get you shot faster than anything is to have a gun in your hand and refuse to follow commands. Use your head and pay attention. Even if you can't hear what you are being told, when the men with badges show up, your gun goes down, and your hands go up. Be as nonthreatening as possible. Keep your hands up and point with your nose if you need to show where the bad guy is. </div></div>
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
Yeah, I'd pretty much bet on getting taken down pretty hard by the police, that was assumed. I was just curious in general, in some of the anti-gun rants I've been reading, there have been questions posed that I couldn't answer myself, so I asked here. Thanks guys.
Yeah, I'd pretty much bet on getting taken down pretty hard by the police, that was assumed. I was just curious in general, in some of the anti-gun rants I've been reading, there have been questions posed that I couldn't answer myself, so I asked here. Thanks guys.
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
Years ago there was an FBI study done on shooting incidents involving agents and non-agents alike. If I recall correctly, just by having a gun and shooting back your chances of survival were something like 85 percent. Things like marksmanship, use of cover, etc. increased those chances even further. And keep in mind these were defensive incidents where the bad guy started shooting first. So once again the media has their head up their collective arse when they postulate that an armed citizen could not have done any good.
Years ago there was an FBI study done on shooting incidents involving agents and non-agents alike. If I recall correctly, just by having a gun and shooting back your chances of survival were something like 85 percent. Things like marksmanship, use of cover, etc. increased those chances even further. And keep in mind these were defensive incidents where the bad guy started shooting first. So once again the media has their head up their collective arse when they postulate that an armed citizen could not have done any good.
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
You wouldn't happen to have the name of that study, would you? I'll try my Google-Fu, in the meantime.
You wouldn't happen to have the name of that study, would you? I'll try my Google-Fu, in the meantime.
Re: Appropriate active shooter response?
The first thing to consider is that active shooters are cowards, that’s why they choose the targets they do. When they are confronted they will flee or commit suicide. You don't see cases of an active shooter vs. an armed citizen or police in a shootout. Like I said they are cowards. Now police aren't going to be able to recognize good vs. bad. In training for active shooters we are taught to be aware for multiple shooters. So if we arrive and you have a weapon you had better drop it and follow all commands, just let it be sorted out later. An armed citizen could be a good or a bad thing in a theater situation. If a person could stay calm and avoid a cross fire they could have ended the situation by stopping the threat or causing him to flee. At the same time if he wasn't careful he could have hurt other innocent people too. With all that to consider I would rather have an armed citizen there to stop it then not from some stupid fear that they might hurt someone. Too amny people are hurt because we are scared that one or two extra people might get hurt, all the while allowing many people to get hurt. I don’t agree with the liberal media an armed citizen could at a minimum make the shooter flee.
The first thing to consider is that active shooters are cowards, that’s why they choose the targets they do. When they are confronted they will flee or commit suicide. You don't see cases of an active shooter vs. an armed citizen or police in a shootout. Like I said they are cowards. Now police aren't going to be able to recognize good vs. bad. In training for active shooters we are taught to be aware for multiple shooters. So if we arrive and you have a weapon you had better drop it and follow all commands, just let it be sorted out later. An armed citizen could be a good or a bad thing in a theater situation. If a person could stay calm and avoid a cross fire they could have ended the situation by stopping the threat or causing him to flee. At the same time if he wasn't careful he could have hurt other innocent people too. With all that to consider I would rather have an armed citizen there to stop it then not from some stupid fear that they might hurt someone. Too amny people are hurt because we are scared that one or two extra people might get hurt, all the while allowing many people to get hurt. I don’t agree with the liberal media an armed citizen could at a minimum make the shooter flee.
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