AR-10 for PRS?

[blue_ridge]

So the consensus seems to be against using AR-10’s in PRS, but I‘m not sure I know all the specific reasons why. Saw a @lowlight video where he mentions the recoil cycle is harder to control/maintain consistency. Obviously AR-10’s lag a little in velocity when comparing apples to apples with bolt actions. Are these the only two reasons against using them in matches?

Are they a major handicap or only a slight handicap compared to bolt guns?

 

[otnot]

Wondering the same thing. My only concern would be it functioning correctly. I think they use a bolt gun for the same reason you use a over/under to shoot shotgun sports. Reliability!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The recoil impulse lasts a very long time. Good luck self spotting when the gun is still jumping around while you miss seeing all the important stuff.
They also don't take well at all to free recoiling, and like it or not, balancing the gun on a big bag and just tapping the trigger while hardly touching the rest of the gun is a legitimate PRS technique.

 

[ma smith]

It's not just recoil management in the sense of hitting the target, its sight-picture management in the follow thru and follow up shots.

 

[blue_ridge]

What if you go with a lighter cartridge, like 6 Creed? Can you add weight to the rifle, lighten the BCG, tune the gas block and manage to see some trace and impacts? Or is it still no bueno?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

What if you go with a lighter cartridge, like 6 Creed? Can you add weight to the rifle, lighten the BCG, tune the gas block and manage to see some trace and impacts? Or is it still no bueno?

It'll be better, but it still won't be on par with a heavy bolt gun in an even lighter cartridge like 6BR with a sub 1lb trigger and only one fast recoil impulse to deal with.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I shot a 6mm arc in a prs match. If a person built an ar15 with that purpose in mind, it would be a solid competitor. I never had a malfunction, or any kind of issue. I had a 22" barrel, but with a 26" barrel, it will shoot those 105's just a hair slower than most 6mm's used for prs. If I had any desire to shoot prs, that's exactly the rifle I would assemble.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I shot a 6mm arc in a prs match. If a person built an ar15 with that purpose in mind, it would be a solid competitor. I never had a malfunction, or any kind of issue. I had a 22" barrel, but with a 26" barrel, it will shoot those 105's just a hair slower than most 6mm's used for prs. If I had any desire to shoot prs, that's exactly the rifle I would assemble.

Same. I just don't enjoy bolt guns and my 17lb 22" 6mm Grendel is as close as I can bring myself to owning the static artillery type rifles that are prevalent in PRS. I could certainly stack the odds in my favor with a longer barrel and more weight, I just don't care to.

 

[blue_ridge]

I have a 308 I built up over the past few years. I’m pretty happy with it and may tare it to a match, understanding 308 + AR = double the handicap. But I was thinking I might re-barrel it to 6 Creed or similar and get an ARCA Rail for my JP MK3 handguard to improve it.

 

[spamassassin]

I know a few guys that use AR platform and even one guy that uses a Mini-14. They're not super high level shooters but they do ok. Unless you're trying to get into the points race then just go, run what you brung and compete against yourself. When you find a plateau that comes down to something in your equipment that is blocking you doing better then worry about it.

 

[ma smith]

I know a few guys that use AR platform and even one guy that uses a Mini-14. They're not super high level shooters but they do ok. Unless you're trying to get into the points race then just go, run what you brung and compete against yourself. When you find a plateau that comes down to something in your equipment that is blocking you doing better then worry about it.

+1 and I would add A .224 (or variant) is much closer to the recoil of 6mm/BR etc. than some other options. if you have a local match thats mostly inside of 800 yards and the conditions are light to moderate in terms of wind.

 

[357Max]

I’ve been trying to fight the itch to build a large frame barricade gun. Not doing to well as I’ve already accumulated some of the parts. JL billet ambi lower, Aero M5E1 enhanced upper, JP low mass bcg, Geissele Super CH, & a Sgt of arms 17” Arca hand guard that bolts straight to the M5E1.
Probably going to go with an X Caliber 24” +2” RL in either 25x47 or 6x47.
Still need to pick up another LMT DMR stock. Magpul PRS length of pull is way to long for me on a large frame.

The disadvantages are well laid out in this thread, but I like a challenge.

If you want to go for it, focus on the following IMO.
Balance
Length of pull
Rigid upper-handguard assembly.
Trigger & if you go light you’d better have good fundamentals or you’ll get DQ’d for a double tap.

 

[Shoots 700's]

If thats all you have why not shoot it.

 

[mikeshaw2]

The PRS matches I've signed up for have gas gun categories. Give it a try.

That's all that I have for you

M

 

[spamassassin]

OP, you might notice that nobody has begun a dogpile on you. That's a subtle hint that what you're talking about is totally acceptable especialy as you know there are minor drawbacks.

 

[blue_ridge]

Thanks for the replies. I think I’ll give it a shot. Might order an ARCA rail and a clamp for my Atlas bipod. Whats the worst that could happen? I finish last and they take away my birthday. Thanks again.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I will tell you that you can absolutely shoot accurately enough with an ar platform to hit every target on a prs course, and the time you don't spend cycling that bolt is relevant. If a man committed to it, you could do it really well I think.

 

[hlee]

Targets under 2 moa and targets over 800 yards are the exception in PRS- though you will see both. Proned out, with a solid bipod and a good rear bag, the target presentations are all shootable.

The real challenges in PRS are the props. Shooting from a chain suspended between 2 posts. Shooting from the “latch end” of an open aluminum gate. Shooting from a slick 45deg ledge. Shooting from a prop that collapses when pushed or pulled.

Guys/ladies at the top are not shooting the ultimate flat shooting laser beam wonder cartridge. They are shooting some flavor of short action 6mm. A br, bra, dasher, etc. There are “higher performance” cartridges, but at the very top everyone can make the hits. The name of the game in the rarified air of the top shooters is self-spotting misses and correcting.

You are not going to approach the low recoil of a 20+ lb 6mm bra with any AR-10. This puts you behind the 8 ball with setting up your position- which will be a compromise because of the time limit and stage design.

Can you go out with an ar-10/sr-25 (or variant) rifle and compete for high overall score at the national level in PRS? History suggests ‘no.’ Can you go out with an large frame semi auto and shoot a match, surprise yourself, disgust yourself, learn about your ‘system,’ and have an enjoyable day turning money into noise with a bunch of fellow shooters? Yes. Yes you can.

 

[hlee]

Thanks for the replies. I think I’ll give it a shot. Might order an ARCA rail and a clamp for my Atlas bipod. Whats the worst that could happen? I finish last and they take away my birthday. Thanks again.

The older I get, the more I wish someone would take away a birthday or 2.

 

[Billiam1211]

I've shot both in matches - the bolt gun always produces a better score. That said, the gas gun is fun to run in matches and I run it in a few night matches. I have an AR-10 with 20-inch Bartlein in 308 and another upper with a 24-inch Proof barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. The Proof barrel is an absolute hammer and I have no problem hitting 1 MOA targets out to distance from stable positions. The 308 barrel hammers but gets super challenging beyond 700 if there's wind. Like everyone else said, spotting trace/splash is a challenge with the recoil impulse.

 

[towerofpower93]

Targets under 2 moa and targets over 800 yards are the exception in PRS- though you will see both. Proned out, with a solid bipod and a good rear bag, the target presentations are all shootable.

The real challenges in PRS are the props. Shooting from a chain suspended between 2 posts. Shooting from the “latch end” of an open aluminum gate. Shooting from a slick 45deg ledge. Shooting from a prop that collapses when pushed or pulled.

Guys/ladies at the top are not shooting the ultimate flat shooting laser beam wonder cartridge. They are shooting some flavor of short action 6mm. A br, bra, dasher, etc. There are “higher performance” cartridges, but at the very top everyone can make the hits. The name of the game in the rarified air of the top shooters is self-spotting misses and correcting.

You are not going to approach the low recoil of a 20+ lb 6mm bra with any AR-10. This puts you behind the 8 ball with setting up your position- which will be a compromise because of the time limit and stage design.

Can you go out with an ar-10/sr-25 (or variant) rifle and compete for high overall score at the national level in PRS? History suggests ‘no.’ Can you go out with an large frame semi auto and shoot a match, surprise yourself, disgust yourself, learn about your ‘system,’ and have an enjoyable day turning money into noise with a bunch of fellow shooters? Yes. Yes you can.

This. So much this.

Last PRS match I shot I did it with my SVD in the ROs match. Didn't come near the top, but I did beat the only other guy running a gas gun...an AR-10

 

[sparky702]

The place I shoot has both bolt action and gas gun matches , I have seen guys show up and shoot along with the bolt guns , max range is 850 . I saw a guy running an M1A national match . Me myself I just shoot what I want to shoot . I am not going to be standing on the podium hoisting the national champion prize regardless . I just try to improve my marksmanship and enjoy good company . 40 bucks entry fee to have a place to shoot in a challenging environment is good enough for me . I say go for it and run your ar10 and enjoy your day .

 

[Bravo6niner]

I think it comes down to expectations and goals. A well built gas gun can do well in a PRS match. I think it would be tough to place in the top ten of a major 2 day match these days though. If you like gas guns and wanna shoot one in a match do it!!!

I shot in a one day prs style gas/bolt gun team match this year. Placed 4th out of 20 some teams. It was fun and scratched the itch to shoot a gas gun in a competition setting.

Now for a two day match where I gotta drive 8hrs and spend a decent amount of money for the whole deal, I’m going to take my bolt gun because I feel it is more competitive in that game.

End of the day, if you wanna shoot a gas gun in a prs match do it

 

[Niles Coyote]

I ran one for a year in the regional series, did very well and took home a top gas gun trophy that year. My scores averaged slightly lower than those of my bolt rifle at the end of the year. Understand that isn't direct comparison of the same matches because I wasn't shooting both at the same match... but within the same region.

I used a Mega Maten frame set with JP parts and barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor that I assembled.

Lessons learned,

You can't hot rod your ammo as you can with a bolt rifle. I was running 140's about 2700 fps while most competitors were running the same about 2850.

Use .003 or more neck tension on your ammo

Some powders don't play well with a gas gun so you may have to experiment until you find one with a good pressure curve for your gas system.

Take time to get into a solid position to control the recoil, you are still going to move off target more than your used too so be prepared to track the target in the scope.

Remind your RO's you are going to have fast follow shots... I out ran their ability to score hits like they were used to with the bolt gunners often, as soon as I saw splash the next round was in the air.

Bring an extra bolt carrier group so you can swap it and clean it every few stages... or if you in a low dust environment a small can of wd-40 and the included straw on the can squirted into the vent holes of the carrier will also work after every stage.

Tactical brass recovery makes an awesome brass catcher and it never caused a problem...

 

[Dogtown]

FWIW, I recently had my AR10 rebarreled into a 16” 6mm Creedmoor and it’s now so pleasant to shoot I’d consider it for competition. I’m shooting 95gr VLD Target bullets at 2800fps and the recoil is noticeably less than a 6.5mm or .308 while also carrying the distance well. Sure, a longer barrel will give you more velocity but at 16” it’s such a handy large frame AR to maneuver and run around with.

 

[Northman623]

Use the competition to hone your skills with a gas gun and find defects in the setup of your rifle. PRS can help make you functional. I don't shoot bolt guns other than ELR anymore. Do as many matches as you can. It will make you a much better rifleman and when you go back to the boltgun its like hitting the easy button. I can not recall ever saying I don't need the practice. And I have never come away from a match without a list of things that need to be changed or improved.

 

[hlee]

Use the competition to hone your skills with a gas gun and find defects in the setup of your rifle. PRS can help make you functional. I don't shoot bolt guns other than ELR anymore. Do as many matches as you can. It will make you a much better rifleman and when you go back to the boltgun its like hitting the easy button. I can not recall ever saying I don't need the practice. And I have never come away from a match without a list of things that need to be changed or improved.

^^^ This. A comp is the cheapest training you’ll ever get.