Looking to purchase a new AR for mid range shooting. Ideas on what company .ie DD , Novesky, LWRC,. I also want to know what would be the best bullet weight 62gr, 77gr,.......and so on. I am looking g to spend around 1500.00 - 2000.00 on the weapon. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
- Thread starter bowhntr4lf
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I am looking for the same set up. I currently have a Daniels defense which I really like but it doesn't seem to fit me for some reason. I shot my buddies Bravo Company and was really impressed. I think daniels defense, Bravo Company, Larue, and Novesky are all kick ass from what I have found so far........
I have a BPM (Barnes Precision Machine) AR.. And I couldnt be happier with it.. They machine EVERYTHING inhouse, so tolerances are VERY tight.. Using standard 55gr plinking ammo, I shoot 16" silhouette gongs at 550 yards all day long, with a $100 4x's red dot.... Not sure exactly what kind of accuracy youre looking for, but thats more than enough for anything non-competitive.. $1200 for the rifle, $100 for cheapy red dot.. $700 remaining is good for 2000 rounds of ammo.. 
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Barnes makes very good ARs.
However, what do you consider "mid" range and what types of targets are you trying to hit? I'd probably not recommend any of the three you listed for what I consider to be an accurate DMR style AR. The bullet will also depend on what type of target and range. While you are at it, what kind of positions do you anticipate shooting from?
However, what do you consider "mid" range and what types of targets are you trying to hit? I'd probably not recommend any of the three you listed for what I consider to be an accurate DMR style AR. The bullet will also depend on what type of target and range. While you are at it, what kind of positions do you anticipate shooting from?
Will be shooting from prone position on man sized targets so accuracy is a must and ranges will be no further than 600 meters. Want to keep barrel length at 16" with 1/7" twist. Will be using Vortex or Night Force quality optics 1.5 X 8 power range and weapon will be suppressed at time if needed. This is why I was thinking 77gr bullets would be a better choice.???
A match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A4 will serve you. Order one with a 12 inch quad rail instead of an internal float tube. This sort of rifle is now authorized for CMP governed Service Rifle Competition, which can help you become a better overall marksman with your rifle. A rifle like that is pretty much like the SDMR put together by the USAMU. WOP can put together a facsimile of it within your budget. Add a TA-31F ACOG and you will have what you want and capability you will wish you could exploit. You will appreciate the velocity produced by a 20 inch barrel for a multitude of reasons. A 1 in 8 twist is ideal. Also, you will find you can get good hits using the as issued BDC carry handle sight. A scope is not necessary; however, the ACOG is good for ranging distance, as well as a BDC function.
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White Oak Armament. Get their service rifle upper. Comes with a standard hand guard however it is floated. You can change it to a rifle length quad if you want to use a bipod.
I've got one for LR shooting however haven't got glass for it yet. I'm going to start with 69 gr SMKs.
I've got one for LR shooting however haven't got glass for it yet. I'm going to start with 69 gr SMKs.
The 77 grain bullet is good for 600 yard work while the 69 falls short. I use the 77 mostly at the 200 and 300 yard line and a 80 grain single feed for 500 to 1000; but, single feeding the 80 may be impractical for your applications. Once again, for your stated application you do not need a scope. Learn how to do it with irons. It will expand your capability in any scenario.
I was crushing this 8X11 inch steel plate four weeks ago at the Badlands range in OK. Target is 500 yards. 4.4 mils of elevation dialed with the hornady 120 sst. Shoots sub moa out of my 16 inch ARP barrel. 
Here is the rifle
Here's a typical group with this factory ammo.
Ran it all the way to 1000 yards with exactly 16.5 mils of elevation. Have you considered the 6.8? More lead down range and slightly more stable in the wind. People with 20 inch barrels on 6.8 forums are pushing their 120's to 2700+ fps with 1200r and AA2200.
Here is the rifle
Here's a typical group with this factory ammo.
Ran it all the way to 1000 yards with exactly 16.5 mils of elevation. Have you considered the 6.8? More lead down range and slightly more stable in the wind. People with 20 inch barrels on 6.8 forums are pushing their 120's to 2700+ fps with 1200r and AA2200.
Realize that you are getting advice from a guy biased to shooting High Power (Sterling Shooter), so some of his advice might not be in concert with your stated goals.
Based your follow up answers, I'd probably push you towards 18" with rifle gas. 16" with mid-gas will be okay, but a tad more wear and not as soft on the recoil. 69s are fine to 600 yards and the suppressor does not care about 69 vs 77s. 1/7 or 1/8 twist would be acceptable. The gas system is something you need to really think about. Most adjustable gas is not, they are set and seal, or you will have failures. The Noveske switchblock is good, and while I have not personally tried them, the SLR appears to be robust enough as well. Other than that, go fixed and set up for suppressed and consider a buffer swap for un-suppressed.
Based your follow up answers, I'd probably push you towards 18" with rifle gas. 16" with mid-gas will be okay, but a tad more wear and not as soft on the recoil. 69s are fine to 600 yards and the suppressor does not care about 69 vs 77s. 1/7 or 1/8 twist would be acceptable. The gas system is something you need to really think about. Most adjustable gas is not, they are set and seal, or you will have failures. The Noveske switchblock is good, and while I have not personally tried them, the SLR appears to be robust enough as well. Other than that, go fixed and set up for suppressed and consider a buffer swap for un-suppressed.
No, what you are getting from Sterling Shooter is advice from the perspective of a CMP-USAMU MRI (Squad Designated Marksman Instructor).
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Forgive my ignorance but can you elaborate on the acronyms?
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I agree with Sterling, the velocity you get out of a 20" barrel is definitely not to be underestimated. It's a huge huge plus when you are out to 600 and I would not shoot anything less than a 77 grain bullet. You need every advantage you can get to beat the distance and beat the wind.
And that advice comes from someone without the fancy signature block but has more rounds down the barrel of an m16/4 than I care to recall. I am always amazed at how well I can get a .223 to perform in a 20" barrel.
I just finished building a new 20" with a a melonited 4150 5R barrel chambered in .223 Wylde. Put an adjustable gas block on it, Geissele SD 3G with the 3lb spring, nice YHM rail, a Spikes tactical lower (Had to try to support a business in my home state) and a Seekins Billet upper.
Components like Lapua brass, with Hodgdon benchmark, Lapua scenar 77's, and Federal AR match primers all come together for a scary accurate combination. Mileage will vary so start a workup at 22 grains and go up from there.
And that advice comes from someone without the fancy signature block but has more rounds down the barrel of an m16/4 than I care to recall. I am always amazed at how well I can get a .223 to perform in a 20" barrel.
I just finished building a new 20" with a a melonited 4150 5R barrel chambered in .223 Wylde. Put an adjustable gas block on it, Geissele SD 3G with the 3lb spring, nice YHM rail, a Spikes tactical lower (Had to try to support a business in my home state) and a Seekins Billet upper.
Components like Lapua brass, with Hodgdon benchmark, Lapua scenar 77's, and Federal AR match primers all come together for a scary accurate combination. Mileage will vary so start a workup at 22 grains and go up from there.
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Civilian Marksmanship Program-United States Army Marksmanship Unit Certified Military Rifle Instructor
Back in 2004 the USAMU selected 50 qualified civilian marksmen who had applied to the CMP to assist the USAMU in their training of Squad Designated Marksman. Today, some of these instructors assist the CMP/USAMU in the delivery of (SAFS) Small Arms Firing School.
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Certainly a mouthful! Thanks for clarifying as I was intrigued by this thread but got lost by the acronyms and not questioning skill or experience.
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There you go, High Power Shooter or Not Sterling knows what he's talking about.
Being old school I started shooting ARs, (M16a1s) using 55 gr M193 out of light ARs with 1:12 twist barrels. They were highly effective to 400 yards, under the right conditions (if there is such a thing a right conditions) they worked to 600. Never needed glass.
So now we have the 'A2+ series ARs with heavier barrels, faster twist and heavier bullets. 77s will work at 600 yards but 80+ work better. Again irons work quite well, they do require learning how to shoot. But if you learn to shoot, you can move to glass. But I've seen some damn good iron sight scores out of ARs at 1000 yards.
I don't use glass on ARs but as Sterling says, the 'A4 series allows you to learn on irons and switch to glass if that's what you want.
I don't think one could go wrong with White Oak,
Laugh all you want about High Power, but it WILL teach you to shoot.
Never laughed about it at all. It is one of the best disciplines to work on your fundamentals and I learned a lot from it.
Some of us whose eyes are not what they use to be have no choice but to use an optic. Ever try to shoot iron sights with progressive eye glasses? Close up, mid-range and long range all with the tilt of a head.
Picture some clown on the firing line nodding his head yes before each shot... It just doesn't work very well for accuracy.
I remember an M16A1 I was issued once, it had been shot on FA so much it was damn near a smooth bore and I couldn't hit shit with it and they refused to issue me a new one. So I drove over it with a ducen' half and was issued a new colt A2 out of the box.. (After a reprimand and some weekends of CQ)
It was amazing how quickly my scores improved. Sometimes it isn't the shooter, the rifle has a lot to do with it.
Picture some clown on the firing line nodding his head yes before each shot... It just doesn't work very well for accuracy.
I remember an M16A1 I was issued once, it had been shot on FA so much it was damn near a smooth bore and I couldn't hit shit with it and they refused to issue me a new one. So I drove over it with a ducen' half and was issued a new colt A2 out of the box.. (After a reprimand and some weekends of CQ)
It was amazing how quickly my scores improved. Sometimes it isn't the shooter, the rifle has a lot to do with it.
High Caliber Sales Mk12Mod1 upper. Any lower, even the correct KAC lower will get you at around $2k
You might look at the S&W M&P15 Performance Center. 20" 1:8 twist stainless steel barrel. Smooth free float tube to the gas block. The trigger is good and gets better as you shoot it. Put an adjustable gas block on it for the suppressor and it is done. MSRP is $1,549
You don't need a very accurate rifle to do that. Any half-decent AR will meet those requirements with 77+ grain bullets.
I have a great budget build that I have been impressed with: PSA upper with a CHF 20 inch barrel on an Anderson lower. Put a Geiselle SSA-E in it, a VLTOR A5 recoil system (buffer, spring, tube), and topped it with a Trijicon 3-9x40 Accupoint scope. The rifle cost about $1100 and the scope/mount was $650. It is more accurate than I am and at my range I hit the 600 yard steel plate no problem all day with crappy 55 grain Wolf Gold ammo off bench and sandbag.
Even my 98 pound girlfriend can ring the 300 yard steel all day her first time shooting a rifle.
Rifle length gas + a quality, properly balanced, buffer system makes for a REALLY SOFT shooting rifle.
Sure, it's not as pretty as my Noveske Afghan or LWRC M6A2, but it shoots just as well if not better.
Even my 98 pound girlfriend can ring the 300 yard steel all day her first time shooting a rifle.
Rifle length gas + a quality, properly balanced, buffer system makes for a REALLY SOFT shooting rifle.
Sure, it's not as pretty as my Noveske Afghan or LWRC M6A2, but it shoots just as well if not better.
I am surprised an expert like yourself would be using wolf ammo, or any ammo they didn't load!! I'm also surprised you put together an upper with a slow twist, as you have posted a 1 in 8 can't shoot 55grain bullets. Are you against using a faster twist so you could stabilize heavier bullets? What are you running a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 12 twist?
