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AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

slowkota

slowkota

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 9, 2010
686
10
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Hey guys, Not sure if this belongs in the S/A, or Hunting forum but...

I did a search of the forum, but really didn't find anything pertaining to my question.

Currently I only have a S&W MP15, and really want to hunt whitetails this year with it.

I'm a lil concerned with hunting deer with a .223, so I was curious about any complete uppers in any other calibers that are available out there, that are ideal for deer, at distances anywhere from 20-175 or 200 yards.

I've read some things about 6.8's for deer.. but I want to pick your knowledgable brains for opinions and personal experiances!

And yes, I know that I can pick up a Howa or a used rifle in any caliber I want for the price of an upper... but thats not my desire at this time! And I'll more than likely need to buy dedicated mags.

Any help, advice, and personal experiances will be greatly appreciated!

Chris
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I set a good friend of mine up with a box of cor-bon dpx for his first hunting season. Shot decent groups out of his ar15. He killed a very nice 8 point with it at less than 100 yards. And it was his first hunting season. The barnes bullets always do the job if you put it in the right place.

You are going to need to get a couple of boxes and find out if your gun can shoot them accurately. They will do the job if you can do your part. The .223 just requires a little more patience getting the perfect shot.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I have killed PLENTY of deer with a .223 AR at and beyond the ranges you listed in your post, but as others have said...shot placement is important because unlike other larger calibers that give you a little "wiggle room" with a slightly misplace shot, the .223 will not be so forgiving. Again...it will get the job done with an "off" shot, but it won't get it done in an ethical manner in terms of a clean, humane kill which we all strive for when hunting.

That said, I would go with the 6.5 Grendel which will give you the terminal ballistics to take deer (and other larger North American game), as well as a cartridge that is capable of long-range performance (both on the range and for hunting purposes should you decide that you are comfortable to take a shot at ranges greater than 200yds). Additionally, some of the "big-bore" ARs are 200yd performers and will also give you some better "brush gun" capability...those include the 50 Beowulf (.45-70 light carbine performance in an AR package...very capable of taking deer and other larger game at 200yds+ with the proper ammo) as well as the .458 SOCOM (not quite the cartridge the Beowulf is IMO, but still an excellent round as a shorter-range brush gun capable of taking down deer at least to 150yds and perhaps further based on your ammo and your abilities).
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot placement is key!</div></div>

Yep, mine last year was 200 yard heartshot with 75 gr 223.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I hunt with a 6.8mm with Barnes 95GR TTSX and also Nosler 100 GR Accubond. They have killed seven deer in the past three years.

If your state allows it I wouldn't mind trying to kill deer with the Barnes 70Gr or Swift 75GR Scirocco. I am sure I could take them out with those rounds but Virginia won't allow hunting with a 22 cal bullet so I have to hunt with the larger round.

If you do a search on HTR707 he hunts with a 6.8mm and has loads of kills with the 6.8mm round.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

You're .223 can do the job, you just need a good shot like the others said. With the ranges you are looking at you have a lot of options. There is the 6.8, 6.5 grendel, 300 AAC blackout, .450 bushmaster, and .458 socom. I wouldn't use the last two much past 200 yards though.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I will just reiterate what was allready posted, make sure the .223 is legal to hunt with in your state.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

You can buy an upper for your existing gun in 6.8 or 6.5 and have more confidence knowing it has more knock down power. I have a guy in Texas who hunts with one of my 6.8's and he just took a 300+ pound hog.

.223 in AZ is legal to hunt deer with, but like others said, its more about shot placement.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I would go with the 6.5 Grendel also. Built quite a few of them for guys wanting to shoot deer with their AR's and they do a very good job out to 300 yards so far. Accuracy is excellent and the bullets penetrate very well with good expansion. Great selection of bullets available in 6.5 too.

If you want to use your 223, load up some 60gr Hornady SP or HP bullets, or the Winchester 64gr PP. They do a good job.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

300 BLACKOUT is a good match for you as well.

Key reasons:
- 30-30 Winchester type ballistics
- Only thing that needs to be changed is the barrel. (Same magazines and BCG)
- Affordable ammo and new 300 BLK specific bullets that are hunting oriented. (Once it becomes available)
- Not only is it good for Deer but it doubles as a hard hitting AR with AK type ballistics.

The 6.5 & 6.8 are great cartridges as well, but where they excel is in longer range performance compared to the 300 BLK.

Not trying to sell the 300 BLK, but I came across your thread and saw that no one had mentioned it yet.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

223 will work. A lot will depend on bullet construction/choice. If your rifle will shoot them, I'd choose a heavier bullet like the Barns 70gr TSX, Hornady 75gr BTHP, or Sierra 77gr SMK. My first choice would be the Barnes though. They will most likely need a 1:7 twist to stabilize the bullet. Again, as already stated, shot placement is key.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, Not sure if this belongs in the S/A, or Hunting forum but...

I did a search of the forum, but really didn't find anything pertaining to my question.

Currently I only have a S&W MP15, and really want to hunt whitetails this year with it.

I'm a lil concerned with hunting deer with a .223, so I was curious about any complete uppers in any other calibers that are available out there, that are ideal for deer, at distances anywhere from 20-175 or 200 yards.

I've read some things about 6.8's for deer.. but I want to pick your knowledgable brains for opinions and personal experiances!

And yes, I know that I can pick up a Howa or a used rifle in any caliber I want for the price of an upper... but thats not my desire at this time! And I'll more than likely need to buy dedicated mags.

Any help, advice, and personal experiances will be greatly appreciated!

Chris</div></div>

your search begins and ends with the 6.8. Look at the hunting forums on 6.8forums and ar15 and you will see, 6.8 is ideal for your description. There is a reason it's the number 2 ar15 caliber
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

Barnes Vor-TX 55 grain .223. Lung, neck or head. DRT

Your profile does not show where you are from so like others have said there are a few states that do not allow .223 for deer. I was killing deer nearly 30 years ago with a Mini-14 and plain old 55 grain softpoints. Never lost a deer. Now these newer projectiles make it even easier. Know your gun and you will be amazed at what the little .223 will kill.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

Normally for white tail, I would have suggested something like the 6.5 Grendel, 25 WSSM or even 243WSSM, but if you're distance is only from 150-200, all of those options are way over kill. They are designed to be for a more medium-long range crowd.

Look at the 6.8, 300 AAC blackout, .450 bushmaster, and .458 socom and for shits and giggles, might as well toss in the .50 Beowulf to round it out.

Now if you EVER have any intentions of going past that for any reason. Consider the first three I mentioned.

Anyone that says a specific bullet, weight, or placement will achieve a DRT result every time... hasn't hunted very long.
I've seen 300lb mule deer and 250 lb white tail run 4-5 miles without two shoulders after being shot with a 300 win mag. Shot placement is key, but you can't account for the will of the animal and the adrenaline that it's running around with.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Meat Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your profile does not show where you are from so like others have said there are a few states that do not allow .223 for deer. </div></div>

Sorry 'bout that, I'll add it.

I'm in WI, and it is legal to hunt with .22 caliber centerfire rifles, and FMJ bullets are not allowed.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Normally for white tail, I would have suggested something like the 6.5 Grendel, 25 WSSM or even 243WSSM, but if you're distance is only from 150-200, all of those options are way over kill. They are designed to be for a more medium-long range crowd.

Look at the 6.8, 300 AAC blackout, .450 bushmaster, and .458 socom and for shits and giggles, might as well toss in the .50 Beowulf to round it out.

Now if you EVER have any intentions of going past that for any reason. Consider the first three I mentioned.

Anyone that says a specific bullet, weight, or placement will achieve a DRT result every time... hasn't hunted very long.
I've seen 300lb mule deer and 250 lb white tail run 4-5 miles without two shoulders after being shot with a 300 win mag. Shot placement is key, but you can't account for the will of the animal and the adrenaline that it's running around with. </div></div>

If an animal has no continuous spine, or no brain or no blood he is DRT. I have been hunting for 42 years thank you.
5 miles with both shoulders gone? Yeah right. I just thought I'd heard it all.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

A shot in the spine is, for all intensive purposes...a miss. Work on you're shot placement. Not only that, there is an easy 3-4" of muscle and fat ABOVE the spine.
A shot in the brain is a low percentage shot and I've still seen head shots NOT hit the brain. A bullet will skip off the face of an onlooking deer much easier than you think. Seen it happen.
Of course they'll die when they run out of blood, but a double shoulder shot is no guarantee that will happen any time soon and a DRT (DEAD RIGHT THERE) statement implies it drops in it's tracks dead, without moving, stepping, limping, jumping, walking, running or floating out into space.

DRT shots are never a guarantee.

Oh, and yes 4 miles was a minimum...another Hide member had the luxury of dragging it out of the river with me in late November. It quite possibly drowned and if I'm not mistaken, a back ham was blown to hell as well.
Our fathers got a hell of a laugh watching us drag their deer out of a nearly frozen river.

I won't say small calibers or small bullets won't kill, because they will and will very well. I've seen a cow elk that was taken by someone using an illegal caliber 223 via one shot to the neck. Dropped in its tracks due to the shock, but lived long enough to need it's throat cut.
I've taken 300 lb deer with 75 gr varmint bullets at 400 meters, but that doesn't make it a wise choice.

The corn fed deer of the Midwest tend to be a big bigger bodied than your common deer of the Eastern USA.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I think I'm gonna go with the 6.8 SPC... It seems that the 6.8 is a known and reliable round, that seems to be atleast 1 of the choices everybody has recommended. And after some reading, I believe that it'll suit my needs perfectly!

Thanks for everybodys input and suggestions!
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I'm gonna go with the 6.8 SPC... It seems that the 6.8 is a known and reliable round, that seems to be atleast 1 of the choices everybody has recommended. And after some reading, I believe that it'll suit my needs perfectly!

Thanks for everybodys input and suggestions! </div></div>

Great choice slowkota. Just don't shoot them in the face. Bullet might bounce off.
smile.gif
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

Every deer I've shot with the 53 and 62 grain Barnes has been deliciously displeased.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

also, look to see what the 6.8 has for reloading options vs the grendel, that should help you out there also if you are thinking about one of those two calibers. imho, the 6.8 doesnt have jack crap on the grendel.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

slowkota,
you have 2 guys here from you state, that have the 6.5g vote, i hunt deer in southwest wi southeast viroqua about 20 miles. the 6.5 g does great in the brush and valleys, and its also nice to have for shooting long distance on the ridge tops here. if you have a ballistic calc. run some numbers on possible calibers your thinkin about.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

From everything I've read 6.8spc seems like the best choice for a typical deer hunting scenario. IIRC Rock River makes a version of their coyote upper in 6.8 that would be a good choice for hunting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've seen 300lb mule deer and 250 lb white tail run 4-5 miles without two shoulders after being shot with a 300 win mag. </div></div>

I have a hard time believing that. If you hit the shoulders they go feet, not miles. Those guys probably lunged them improperly.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65nut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i would vote for the grendel. eff that 6.8 round. i have a grendel and it is great. and its gonna spank the hell outta that 6.8 when you start to get out there at longer distance. </div></div>

Take it easy 65nut, before you bust a nut.
mad.gif


I myself have owned a 6.5 grendel and a 6.8 spc. They are both great additions to the AR15 and really should not be compared to each other in my opinion.

With that being said


Why I got rid of the 6.5 Grendel:

From my past experience with the grendel, to get the ballistic advantage, you need to have at least a 20" barrel if not longer. My grendel had a 22" bull barrel on it, and it just made my little AR15 feel heavy and cumbersome due to the extra length and bulk. So if you want to go the 6.5 route I would suggest looking at an AR10 in 260 remington. The AR10 won't weigh a whole lot more and you get a lot more bang with the 260 over the grendel.

Why I still have the 6.8 SPC:

I kept the 6.8 because, I feel its the best compromise between the two. My 16" barreled 6.8 delivers a nosler 110 grain accubond at 2650 fps and produces enough energy to ethically kill a deer out to 300 to 350 yards. With the rifle fully equipped and ready for hunting it weighs right at 8.5 lbs. If you don't handload 6.8 ammo is easier to come by locally and ecspecially online. Bullet makers such as hornady, sierra, nosler, barnes, and speer now make 6.8 specific bullets. Being that my rifle weighs under 9.5 lbs, Not only do I hunt with it, I use it to compete in NRA Sporting Rifle. My 6.8 shoots 90 grain TNT's very accurately.
wink.gif


 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bribri</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65nut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i would vote for the grendel. eff that 6.8 round. i have a grendel and it is great. and its gonna spank the hell outta that 6.8 when you start to get out there at longer distance. </div></div>

Take it easy my friend.

I myself have owned a 6.5 grendel and a 6.8 spc. They are both great additions to the AR15 and really should not be compared to each other in my opinion.

With that being said


Why I got rid of the 6.5 Grendel:

From my past experience with the grendel, to get the ballistic advantage, you need to have at least a 20" barrel if not longer. My grendel had a 22" bull barrel on it, and it just made my little AR15 feel heavy and cumbersome due to the extra length and bulk. So if you want to go the 6.5 route I would suggest looking at an AR10 in 260 remington. The AR10 won't weigh a whole lot more and you get a lot more bang with the 260 over the grendel.

Why I still have the 6.8 SPC:

I kept the 6.8 because, I feel its the best compromise between the two. My 16" barreled 6.8 delivers a nosler 110 grain accubond at 2650 fps and produces enough energy to ethically kill a deer out to 300 to 350 yards. With the rifle fully equipped and ready for hunting it weighs right at 8.5 lbs. If you don't handload 6.8 ammo is easier to come by locally and ecspecially online. Bullet makers such as hornady, sierra, nosler, barnes, and speer now make 6.8 specific bullets.

</div></div>

i guess i should have said imho, but, the op is looking for an upper to fit his ar15 lower. i have the 19.5" grendel upper with the accuracy break from alexander arms and its great. i would then suggest getting the 6.5 creedmoor upper from dpms over the 260 for the non reloader and the o.p. if they had a ar 10 lower. ammo prices between the 6.5 cm hornady amax 140 grainers or even the 129 grain hornady ssts are much cheaper than buying 260 match ammo. I have had the 6.5 cm upper from dpms, and it shot amazing. i just hated it being tank ass heavy.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bribri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
65nut said:
Why I got rid of the 6.5 Grendel:

From my past experience with the grendel, to get the ballistic advantage, you need to have at least a 20" barrel if not longer.

Why I still have the 6.8 SPC:

I kept the 6.8 because, I feel its the best compromise between the two. My 16" barreled 6.8 delivers a nosler 110 grain accubond at 2650 fps and produces enough energy to ethically kill a deer out to 300 to 350 yards.
</div></div>

I too shoot both cartridges. I disagree that a 20"+ pipe is needed for the Grendel. A 6.5 123gr Amax or Scenar at 2500 fps from an 18" barrel (<span style="font-style: italic">very</span> realistic velocity) will have as much energy at ~475 yards as your 6.8 load at 350 yards.

They're both good cartridges, and either makes a good choice for whitetail. I simply disagree with the barrel length claim in your post.
Click to expand...
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bribri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why I got rid of the 6.5 Grendel:

From my past experience with the grendel, to get the ballistic advantage, you need to have at least a 20" barrel if not longer. My grendel had a 22" bull barrel on it, and it just made my little AR15 feel heavy and cumbersome due to the extra length and bulk. So if you want to go the 6.5 route I would suggest looking at an AR10 in 260 remington. The AR10 won't weigh a whole lot more and you get a lot more bang with the 260 over the grendel.

Why I still have the 6.8 SPC:

I kept the 6.8 because, I feel its the best compromise between the two. My 16" barreled 6.8 delivers a nosler 110 grain accubond at 2650 fps and produces enough energy to ethically kill a deer out to 300 to 350 yards. With the rifle fully equipped and ready for hunting it weighs right at 8.5 lbs. If you don't handload 6.8 ammo is easier to come by locally and ecspecially online. Bullet makers such as hornady, sierra, nosler, barnes, and speer now make 6.8 specific bullets. Being that my rifle weighs under 9.5 lbs, Not only do I hunt with it, I use it to compete in NRA Sporting Rifle. My 6.8 shoots 90 grain TNT's very accurately.
wink.gif
</div></div>

Thanks for that writeup, I'm now considering an caliber for an 'extra' AR and this will really help my thought process.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

+1 for 300 blk. You can choose to go the nfa route and shoot subsonics, or shoot the 125 gr loads essentially similar to 7.62x39.

Aside from that, you checke out the 30 rem ar loading yet? pretty impressive.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I'm wanting a 16" or 18"... It won't be suppressed (WI doesn't allow use of suppressors for hunting).

I joined the 68 forum, and there are several WI members there that can, and have validated the 6.8 for WI whitetails!
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

25WSSM perfect round...there are several companies that make uppers in this cal. so should be able to find one pretty easy. I know Midway USA has them in this caliber

the 25WSSM fits the AR-15 platform you will just has to by mags as the .223 mags will not work.

120 grian bullet at 3000fps...I have taken Mule deer and Antelope with this round...actually 115 grain.

Winchester sales ammo for it.

 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

Before you purchase a 6.8, take a serious look at the .450 Bushmaster. I bought one last summer and hunted with it all last season. If 200 yards and closer is what your looking for this is the ticket. A 250 gr. Hornady FTX bullet at 2225 fps (verified out of my 20") is bad news for anything.You may can get 250 yards out of it if you practice, but its running out of gas at 250 yards.

Last fall I killed two deer with one shot at 125 yds , with a little help from bad timing, a herd of trotting does that were not planing on stopping, and some serious over penatration, the .450 got a complete passthrough on both deer, with one falling over dead and the other going about 10 yards. This was not planed out but makes for a good story.

Acuracy is very good as well, at 160 yards I have some 5 shot, 1 hole groups posted on my reloading room wall, granted the hole is huge but what do you expext from a big boar calliber.I would say at 100 yards, moa or a little over moa is very obtainable.


2010-09-18_16-38-41_92.jpg

this is my handloads, 5 shots at 160 yards, 1 " dot.
IMG_1351.jpg

I used a scope for load development
IMG_1346.jpg


In my opinion you cant go wrong with this!
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

I used a .223 using 64gr Winchester power points one year for dear hunting. One shot one kill. After it was shot it collapsed dead, leveled it in it's tracks. I really didn't think it would work so good, but it did taking a neck shot. A day later my hunting partner shot his with a 300wm, but his ran 20yards still with heart and lungs broadside hit. Mine looked like natural causes and his like it was hit with a Mack truck.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boom2336</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will just reiterate what was allready posted, make sure the .223 is legal to hunt with in your state.
</div></div>

Where I'm from it is illegal to hunt whitetail with a .223. If you care about legalities ahaha
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

^^The OP and I are in Wisconsin were it isn't illegal to do so.^^
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

Yeap - HB and AR15Perf...........a guru of the 68. builds what you want and builds it right. one of the nicest shooting platforms I have had.

Bunch of guys running the 68 for FHogs as well. gotta try that sometime. not a fan of carp or Fhogs - for what they do to their environment.
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DonniePD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boom2336</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will just reiterate what was allready posted, make sure the .223 is legal to hunt with in your state.
</div></div>

Where I'm from it is illegal to hunt whitetail with a .223. If you care about legalities ahaha </div></div>

Hey Donnie you might want to read up on your state's regs. Here is a link from Kentucky Game & Fish website 2011-2012 season. Pretty plain that KY alows ANY centerfire rifle or handgun for hunting deer. The only restrictions I see are that you are limited to a total of 11 rounds in the gun and guns cannot be full auto or fmj ammo.
Many states that formerly would not allow .223 for deer have changed in an effort to get more people hunting. My state is one of those.

http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/deerguide1112deerhunting.pdf
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It won't be suppressed (WI doesn't allow use of suppressors for hunting). </div></div>

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect, when I talked to several wardens they said it is fine to use a suppressor. Can you site the law that shows them illegal to use hunting small or large game?

Thanks,
Ron
 
Re: AR-15 upper for Whitetail???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crashnrondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It won't be suppressed (WI doesn't allow use of suppressors for hunting). </div></div>

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect, when I talked to several wardens they said it is fine to use a suppressor. Can you site the law that shows them illegal to use hunting small or large game?

Thanks,
Ron </div></div>

Wow, I just re-checked the online .pdf's of the regs and it doesn't mention anything about them.

I clearly remember back in the 2008-09 reg pamphlets for small game, and the one for deer... it stated that they prohibited laser devices, and silencers (their wording) for use in hunting.

I apologize!
 
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