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AR failure...need HELP

S

sojourner

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 19, 2008
66
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Hi all you AR guru, I need help to diagnose & fix an AR problem. I took my preban Bushmaster lower pair with Bushmaster piston upper (this piston upper is NOT a retrofit kit upper, the entire upper came from Bushmaster) to range today & the rifle froze up. This is not the first time I shot this rifle, but today is the first time I have a problem with it. I would put a round in battery & it fired normally. Then I pulled trigger for second shot & the trigger is frozen..."LOCKED". I field striped the rifle & cannot find a single thing wrong that was causing this. Finally I decided to play with the safety lever. Sun of a gun, when I flip the lever to safe & back to fire, it will fire only one round. Then trigger locks up again. So, the only way I was able to fire off a 30 round mag is I had to flip that safety lever back & forth 30 times.

So, what is my rifle's problem???

How do I fix it?

Thanks guys!
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

What trigger does it have? It sounds like the trigger spring isn't strong enough to reset the hammer from the disconnector. Flipping on the safety forces the trigger back forward (which is what the trigger spring should be doing).

To test this, clear the weapon, close the action, turn off the safety, and squeeze the trigger, keeping it depressed. The hammer should fall.

With the trigger still depressed, cycle the action. Release the trigger, and you should hear the disconnector click if it's working properly. You probably won't get anything. If you don't hear the click, gently pull the trigger forward (towards the muzzle). Then you should hear a click.

Replace your trigger spring and you should be good to go.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

You got a spare fire control group ( trigger)? Sounds like your sear is not fully resetting. I could be wrong... But that's where I'd start...
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Replace your trigger spring and you should be good to go.

</div></div>

This
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't hear the click, gently pull the trigger forward (towards the muzzle). Then you should hear a click.

Replace your trigger spring and you should be good to go.

</div></div>

I did exactly that. When I release the trigger, the trigger will not go forward. Therefore, there was NO click. But then I use my finger to nudge it forward an then I hear click. Son of a gun...you hit it right on the nail.

So, just replace the trigger spring? Do I need to replace the whole FCG as I do not know how many rounds this FCG had seen. Maybe a Geissele? What do you think? Thanks
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Can't go wrong with a Geissele. I would upgrade so this issue does not occur again. What the gentlemen above stated is a simple function check. Ensure you do this after your new purchase.

If your looking to save a little coin and don't mind 2 stage triggers a RRA 2 stage is a good FCG.

Best of luck.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Yes, replacing the trigger spring should fix it. You could also modify the existing spring to get a little more life out of it if the rifle isn't for anything serious. You just need to bend the top of the trigger spring with a pair of pliers. Bend the spring to match the blue line in the picture on both sides of the spring. Increase the angle until it passes the test. This should work with only 15-25 degrees from straight, but the only way to know is to try it. If you need a better picture, let me know and I'll pull my trigger spring out to show you. Make sure you do a full function check afterwards.


Not a bad time to upgrade your trigger, though. I'm using an Armalite Tactical 2-stage, or something to that effect. Extremely easy to adjust, much more so than the RRA triggers. In fact, I believe Armalite has a document on the subject. Mine now has a very nice 3 lb break. It's priced the same as the RRA and cheaper than the Geissele's.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Thank you Temp9. I will just replace the trigger spring so it is brand new & I don't have to worry about it for a long while.

Can what happened to me be caused by dirt? I read somewhere that the trigger spring is good for 20k rounds. I don't think I am anywhere near that.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IronMaidenFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide to go the route of an aftermarket trigger, give serious consideration to the AR Gold. http://americantrigger.com/

It is a 2 stage trigger that breaks like glass. I have one in my SR-15 and love the damn thing. </div></div>

Thanks for the recommendation. Is this on the same level as the Geissele triggers?
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't go wrong with a Geissele. I would upgrade so this issue does not occur again. What the gentlemen above stated is a simple function check. Ensure you do this after your new purchase.

If your looking to save a little coin and don't mind 2 stage triggers a RRA 2 stage is a good FCG.

Best of luck. </div></div>

Considering Geissele as many people have all good things to say about them. I will look into AR15 Gold trigger as well. Thanks
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Probably is a trigger spring issue, but you might check and make sure there's not a loose primer down there in the trigger group area. If a loose primer falls down there it will lock a trigger up.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sojourner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't hear the click, gently pull the trigger forward (towards the muzzle). Then you should hear a click.

Replace your trigger spring and you should be good to go.

</div></div>

I did exactly that. When I release the trigger, the trigger will not go forward. Therefore, there was NO click. But then I use my finger to nudge it forward an then I hear click. Son of a gun...you hit it right on the nail.

So, just replace the trigger spring? Do I need to replace the whole FCG as I do not know how many rounds this FCG had seen. Maybe a Geissele? What do you think? Thanks </div></div>

You need to replace a SPRING. Not your entire trigger group. Why turn a $1 issue into a $250 project. Replace the spring. See if your problem is resolved and the trigger makes you happy. Gee, your toyota has a single flat tire...maybe you should replace it with a set of 22" rims and tires...

Middle ground, order up a set of replacement springs from JP Enterprises. For $10 you may end up with all the trigger you need.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.3_spring.php
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: med17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably is a trigger spring issue, but you might check and make sure there's not a loose primer down there in the trigger group area. If a loose primer falls down there it will lock a trigger up. </div></div>

Did you check your spent cases? I had similar sounding problem and I had blown a primer. It made it under the base of the trigger and finally locked up everything. The only way I could get it to fire was clicking the safety on and off.

Are you running an ambi safety selector? Did the spring/detent pin break causing the selector to slide horizontally and ultimately catching the trigger base?

You can't go wrong with an upgrade like Geissele. I just got a match on the group buy for my ar10 and am running the SD-3gun in my POF ar15. They are everything they are cracked up to be! Watched youtube video and took maybe 10 minutes on my first to install. I had my match installed in less than 2 minutes.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

You need to replace a SPRING. Not your entire trigger group. Why turn a $1 issue into a $250 project. Replace the spring. See if your problem is resolved and the trigger makes you happy. Gee, your toyota has a single flat tire...maybe you should replace it with a set of 22" rims and tires...

Middle ground, order up a set of replacement springs from JP Enterprises. For $10 you may end up with all the trigger you need.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.3_spring.php


I hear you. I was just thinking a broken item is always a blessing in disguise cause that would be the reason you upgrade to nicer & better equipments without feeling guilty. Yes the cheap option is to just replace the springs.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trisurvivor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you check your spent cases? I had similar sounding problem and I had blown a primer. It made it under the base of the trigger and finally locked up everything. The only way I could get it to fire was clicking the safety on and off.

Are you running an ambi safety selector? Did the spring/detent pin break causing the selector to slide horizontally and ultimately catching the trigger base?

You can't go wrong with an upgrade like Geissele. I just got a match on the group buy for my ar10 and am running the SD-3gun in my POF ar15. They are everything they are cracked up to be! Watched youtube video and took maybe 10 minutes on my first to install. I had my match installed in less than 2 minutes.</div></div>

Did not check spend case. I didn't think of it to check spend case. Now I know. Not running ambi safety. I can't believe I missed Geissele group buy.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sojourner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IronMaidenFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide to go the route of an aftermarket trigger, give serious consideration to the AR Gold. http://americantrigger.com/

It is a 2 stage trigger that breaks like glass. I have one in my SR-15 and love the damn thing. </div></div>

Thanks for the recommendation. Is this on the same level as the Geissele triggers? </div></div>

The Geiselle is simply another "improvement" over the same old Stoner trigger design. The AR Gold is a completely "re-invented" fire control group and it is in a league of its own.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IronMaidenFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Geiselle is simply another "improvement" over the same old Stoner trigger design. The AR Gold is a completely "re-invented" fire control group and it is in a league of its own.</div></div>

From what I understand, the Geiselle's are using the M1/M14 style triggers, not the classic Stoner designed triggers. That being said, I've been wanting to try out that AR Gold for a while. Just waiting for them to get rid of that god awful paint job. Maybe I'll get one and paint it....

Sojourner,
Your issue could be caused by extreme dirt or a loose primer like the others have said. You might want to try pulling out the FCG and wiping everything down before committing to a purchase. On the other hand, this may be a sign to get a fancy new trigger. Your call.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Another vote for Geissele. Have two of them they are awesome!!!
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Have you pulled the upper off, blasted the lower out with break cleaner, added a few drops of oil and tried to function test the FCG with your thumb? Cock it, control the hammer with your thumb and pull trigger, hold rear and reset hammer?

And you better believe there is a reason sooooooo many people recommend the same trigger. Its a clue!
I cant say enough nice things about mine.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From what I understand, the Geiselle's are using the M1/M14 style triggers, not the classic Stoner designed triggers. That being said, I've been wanting to try out that AR Gold for a while. Just waiting for them to get rid of that god awful paint job. Maybe I'll get one and paint it....

Sojourner,
Your issue could be caused by extreme dirt or a loose primer like the others have said. You might want to try pulling out the FCG and wiping everything down before committing to a purchase. On the other hand, this may be a sign to get a fancy new trigger. Your call. </div></div>

Yes a gold color trigger in an otherwise black gun kinda stand out...yes if only they will make a black color trigger.

Yes dirt & loose primer are on my mind as an offending causes. Will pull FCG apart as soon as I have time & will get back to you guys on whether that had solved the issue or not.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you pulled the upper off, blasted the lower out with break cleaner, added a few drops of oil and tried to function test the FCG with your thumb? Cock it, control the hammer with your thumb and pull trigger, hold rear and reset hammer?</div></div>

I have not but as soon as I have time I will pull the FCG apart & clean it. Will get back to you whether that solved the problem or not.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

For all you experts, I also have a recently occurring problem with my BCG in my AR (5.56). When I first paired the upper and lower, I had problems pulling the charging handle back. I fixed this by filing down my charging handle where it wrapped around the BCG.

So I just received some mags, reticle, etc., from Cheaper Than Dirt. Anyways, I put the mag in and then pulled the charging handle back, but the BCG seems to get stuck in the stock. The charging handle returns to its normal position, but I have to pop the pins to get the BCG to spring back in to place. I noticed that the door on the side does not stay locked very well. I'm wondering if the BCG is sticking because of the door, or the mag. I'm at a loss here experts, please advise!!

Thanks,

Brad
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Sounds like something is binding. What else do you have in it? Sounds like bcg may be tilting inside upper. Are you running a wedge or one of the tensioning rear pins?
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trisurvivor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like something is binding. What else do you have in it? Sounds like bcg may be tilting inside upper. Are you running a wedge or one of the tensioning rear pins? </div></div>


Double checked, no.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bdsurace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For all you experts, I also have a recently occurring problem with my BCG in my AR (5.56). When I first paired the upper and lower, I had problems pulling the charging handle back. I fixed this by filing down my charging handle where it wrapped around the BCG.

So I just received some mags, reticle, etc., from Cheaper Than Dirt. Anyways, I put the mag in and then pulled the charging handle back, but the BCG seems to get stuck in the stock. The charging handle returns to its normal position, but I have to pop the pins to get the BCG to spring back in to place. I noticed that the door on the side does not stay locked very well. I'm wondering if the BCG is sticking because of the door, or the mag. I'm at a loss here experts, please advise!!

Thanks,

Brad</div></div>

Bolt catch.
grin.gif



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sojourner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trisurvivor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like something is binding. What else do you have in it? Sounds like bcg may be tilting inside upper. Are you running a wedge or one of the tensioning rear pins? </div></div>


Double checked, no.</div></div>

I think he was talking to Bdsurace.
wink.gif
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Brad, has the rifle been dropped or knocked lately? It sounds to me like something is either in the buffer tube blocking the bolt from operating like it should, or you may have a bent buffer tube.
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eagle1899</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another vote for Geissele. Have two of them they are awesome!!! </div></div>here to a vote ...them are almost bug proof !!!!less trouble !!!!!ssa-e no screws etc drop in, run hard !
 
Re: AR failure...need HELP

Just as a follow up, I pulled the FCG apart & gave it a good cleaning job. Put back in to lower & problem solved. Thanks ALL.
 
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