- Thread starter solocam
- Start date
Either a Holosun HS507C-X2 or a Vortex Spitfire 3x or 5x Prism scope (fixed power). I have a Gen1 3x Spitfire Prism for about 10 years now, and it's been great on my 14.5 5.56 out to 200 yards, shooting 5" steel gongs on a challenge tree.
I have a Holosun HS507C-X2 on my SA Saint 7.5" 5.56 pistol with an ADM QD mount, and it's phenomenal at 100, and even hitting the big 10" gong at 200. It's the perfect little "truck gun"/SHTF gun. It's light, compact, fun, and even without magnification, I'd have no problem taking deer-sized game at 200 yards with good ammo.
I have a Holosun HS507C-X2 on my SA Saint 7.5" 5.56 pistol with an ADM QD mount, and it's phenomenal at 100, and even hitting the big 10" gong at 200. It's the perfect little "truck gun"/SHTF gun. It's light, compact, fun, and even without magnification, I'd have no problem taking deer-sized game at 200 yards with good ammo.
I spoke with a couple of my reps and this is what I've got:
SIG SAUER:
Romeo 5 for price, Romeo 4 for quality
ATHLON:
Midas LE Red Dot #403060
SIGHTMARK:
Ultra Shot M-Spec, Volta Solar Red Dot Sight or Element Mini Solar Red Dot Sight
LEUPOLD:
DeltaPoint
HAWKE:
For a red dot, I would recommend the Endurance Red Dot 1x25- Weaver Rail - Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA for compactness (I’ve used the Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA and Reflex Sight Wide View on AR pistols also, they’re good in this application but require a riser for adequate sight height, so the the Endurance Red Dot 1x25- Weaver Rail - Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA solves that and the enclosed sight is more robust for harder use. For a magnified optic, the Vantage 30 WA 1-4x24 - L4A Dot Illuminated is a perfect zoom and reticle for a 10” AR pistol.
SIG SAUER:
Romeo 5 for price, Romeo 4 for quality
ATHLON:
Midas LE Red Dot #403060
SIGHTMARK:
Ultra Shot M-Spec, Volta Solar Red Dot Sight or Element Mini Solar Red Dot Sight
LEUPOLD:
DeltaPoint
HAWKE:
For a red dot, I would recommend the Endurance Red Dot 1x25- Weaver Rail - Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA for compactness (I’ve used the Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA and Reflex Sight Wide View on AR pistols also, they’re good in this application but require a riser for adequate sight height, so the the Endurance Red Dot 1x25- Weaver Rail - Micro Reflex Dot 3 MOA solves that and the enclosed sight is more robust for harder use. For a magnified optic, the Vantage 30 WA 1-4x24 - L4A Dot Illuminated is a perfect zoom and reticle for a 10” AR pistol.
Last edited:
Primary Arms SLx 1x Micro Prism
Red
Green
Red
Primary Arms SLx 1X MicroPrism™ Scope - Red Illuminated ACSS Cyclops Reticle - Gen II
DetailsAfter rigorous field testing, this optic has been given a Silver-tier rating by the National Tactical Officers Association. This Primary Arms MicroPrism is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo...
www.primaryarms.com
Primary Arms SLx 1X MicroPrism™ Scope - Green Illuminated ACSS Cyclops Reticle - Gen II
Details This Primary Arms MicroPrism is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo rigorous field-testing during development to best serve you in any environment. The SLx® 1x MicroPrism with green illumination is...
www.primaryarms.com
Vortex Razor Gen 3 or ATACR8
What you doing with it?
For that a basic red dot will work. I have a Spitfire AR on my 10.5” 300BO and like it. I like having the rings and a reticle even if not illuminated. On my 8.5” I have a Sparc AR basic red dot.
Aimpoint. Zero reason to cheap out with chicom imports if you may actually need this to work at the worst of times.
Find a used C , M or Pro for $300 or so.
They are the gold standard for red dots. I would still rather have a LPVO, but you may not be willing to spend what it takes to get one you can trust your life to (mentioned above).
TLDR; Red dot sights are the way to go on short rifles in my opinion. Add a quality magnifier if you need more magnification.
I have an 11.5" pistol for the same purpose. In order of importance I bought a good set of BUIS, a good weapon light, and a red dot sight.
For now, I have a vortex crossfire red dot. It's what I could afford after I grabbed the rest of the stuff. I trust the BUIS, so if the dot goes down I'm not completely screwed.
Next year I'm going to pick up an Eotech EXPS, razor AMG UH1, or Aimpoint Comp M5. Haven't quite decided yet. If I decide I need magnification, I'll pick up a G33 magnifier.
I have an 11.5" pistol for the same purpose. In order of importance I bought a good set of BUIS, a good weapon light, and a red dot sight.
For now, I have a vortex crossfire red dot. It's what I could afford after I grabbed the rest of the stuff. I trust the BUIS, so if the dot goes down I'm not completely screwed.
Next year I'm going to pick up an Eotech EXPS, razor AMG UH1, or Aimpoint Comp M5. Haven't quite decided yet. If I decide I need magnification, I'll pick up a G33 magnifier.
Well if trying to get to 100 then that's a different thing but can be done. Usually when people say "Strictly self Defense type of weapon" they are talking house gun and closer "self defense" area range. There a red dot will work. The prism Spitfire above I have shot to 100 and it's nicer than a standard red dot as the reticle doesn't kind of deform and it has the small dot. I shot it on silhouette sized targets. If you are doing that all the time then maybe a LPVO would be better like a 1-6x but only you can answer that.
I have two of the these for my AR pistols ... they're amazing (but not cheap).
Another good option I have on my 300-BLK that lets me shoot both close-in and out to 100 or more. The thing is built like a brick shit-house, and has the added advantage of being useful after you run out of ammo. It's so solid you can throw it at your foe and inflict serious traumatic brain injury if you hit him in the head.
www.sigsauer.com
BRAVO5 5x32 mm
The world's first wide field battle sight for professional and civilian MSR/AR-shooters.
www.sigsauer.com You won't be putting up tiny groups with a red dot, but I've had no problem hitting a 6-8" plate out to 200 with a 2 MOA dot (probably could go a little further out but the steel was grey against a brown background). A full IPSC I don't have an issue at 300.
They do take a bit of getting used to. They're designed to be used with both eyes open and focusing on the target, where a scope or prism optic roughly focuses everything on the same plane. If you try to operate it like a riflescope and focus your eye on the dot, the dot image is going to look like crap. It cleans up nicely when focusing on your target though.
Anything short like a pistol (or an SBR) is only gonna have a limited range anyway, so for me that means red dot hands down.
I have 4 Sig Romeo 5 sights on various guns meant as short range (<150 yds) guns. This includes my 16" Lee Enfield scout rifle & my .44 mag lever gun. I have an Aimpoint Comp M4s on my SBR, + a 3x magnifier, and a Holosun 402D on my 9mm AR pistol. You don't need a great deal of precision at close distances, but you may need speed of engagement.
I have 4 Sig Romeo 5 sights on various guns meant as short range (<150 yds) guns. This includes my 16" Lee Enfield scout rifle & my .44 mag lever gun. I have an Aimpoint Comp M4s on my SBR, + a 3x magnifier, and a Holosun 402D on my 9mm AR pistol. You don't need a great deal of precision at close distances, but you may need speed of engagement.
This right here is what I was talking about when I said speed of engagement. This is where the red dot shines above all else. NOTHING is faster. Your brain will put the dot on the target when you mount the gun.
Most modern ones like those from Sig, and Holosun will have "shake awake" technology that helps to prolong battery life. My best red dot, the Aimpoint, just stays on at all times, and need not be re-awakened. I change the battery every year just to be safe even though it's not needed. That's the one I use as my home defense gun. The Comp M4s is old, and bulkier than the newer ones, but it still works. If I could afford it, I'd have all Aimpoints, but I can't, so the rest get the Sigs, and the Holosun.
For a defensive only AR I have a Razor Huey G2 & really like it. No need for anything but true 1x on defensive rig.
The Huey is great because it has a small 1 moa dot center for precision, but it has an oh shit halo around it.
The rifle below is set up for Hunting 350L, 11" barrel, 34mm tube 1x/1moa dot Leupold, with BDC elevation turret + Trijicon 3x.
The small 1 moa dot on the Leupold allows for pretty good precision.
Lots of great choices out there. Pick something that suits your taste & needs.
The Huey is great because it has a small 1 moa dot center for precision, but it has an oh shit halo around it.
The rifle below is set up for Hunting 350L, 11" barrel, 34mm tube 1x/1moa dot Leupold, with BDC elevation turret + Trijicon 3x.
The small 1 moa dot on the Leupold allows for pretty good precision.
Lots of great choices out there. Pick something that suits your taste & needs.
Cheap chicom imports like the sig, burris, holosun mentioned have no place on a defensive weapon or anything you need to trust your life to.
Sig does make some red dots in the US, but they are comparable in price to the quality domestic ones like RMR and Leopold Deltapoint (Romeo 1 pro, and while the deltapoint is made well, its not durable enough for a duty/work/SD gun)
Despite what some paid for shill youtuber tells you, Stick to the big 3.
Aimpoint, Eotech and Trijicon.
Is your life not worth a $300 proven piece of equipment?
Eotech makes the fastest optic in the world, however there are drawbacks such as having to turn it on and much shorter battery life. For a tier 1 assualter it makes sense to get that small edge, but it comes with higher maintance and there is always prep time before hitting the target. Getting woke up in the middle of the night is not the time to try to find the on switch to an optic.
Trijicon makes a nice little sight in the MRO, however it has delicate battery terminals, has parallax shift, is slightly magnified giving fish eye and has a terrible blue tint like their RMRs. They also have considerably lower battery life than aimpoint. On the 2nd to highest setting I was getting 4-6 months before battery needed replacement. Not that big of a deal but more than once I picked up the gun and realized i had a dead battery.
Aimpoint have crystal clear glass, are bombproof and have amazing battery life. I have gone to Eotech and Trijicon more than once and always end up selling them all and buying a shit load of aimpoints. I think I am up to 8 or 9 various ones now. Not going to make that mistake again. Aimpoints also have the ability to carry an extra battery on them, which is nice if you are out or don't have a spare in your bag (Which you should have).
A typical 4 MOA dot will allow you to make reliable COM hits out to about 300 yards. The newer 2 moa dots allow more precision shots, but with bloom and its really not that much of a difference.
A 50 yard zero will give you good point blank offset and your 50 and 200 yard shots will be dead on with a typical .223/5.56 load.
Now if you have an astigmitism like many of us do, all red dots will look like oblong blobs. You can do a Prism sight but outside of the Steiner, most are more cheap chicom junk. An Acog like the TA33 may also be a good option but will be slower for up closer and you have issues with reticle illumination depending on your environment. Or just suck it up and rock a red dot. That would be my advice.
Hard to beat an Aimpoint Pro. $425ish new, $3-350ish used. Comes with a serviceable mount and a 5 year battery life that on max setting is more like one year. Never turn it off and change the battery once a year. No cheap chicom electronics to fail or a drifting zero.
Now if money is no issue, Look hard at the newer LPVO. With true 1x like reticles, there is no such thing as too much optic for a 10.5 or 11.5" gun. The NX8 would be perfect for a small carbine/pistol but the reticle sucks for longer work and the eyebox is kinda small. It does have a nuclear bright dot which is a must have for a fighting LPVO. For close in oh shit shooting you want a forgiving eyebox for heads up shooting. Money no object the Best to least Best would be the S&B CC Dual > Vortex Gen 3 > ATACR 8 > Gen 2 Razor > Kahles 1-6/8 > Eotech 1-6.
You could do the dot + magnifier but after running them for a few years, I went back to LPVO. Just a much better solution in a smaller footprint and way more versatile.
Lots of choices but choose wisely.
Sig does make some red dots in the US, but they are comparable in price to the quality domestic ones like RMR and Leopold Deltapoint (Romeo 1 pro, and while the deltapoint is made well, its not durable enough for a duty/work/SD gun)
Despite what some paid for shill youtuber tells you, Stick to the big 3.
Aimpoint, Eotech and Trijicon.
Is your life not worth a $300 proven piece of equipment?
Eotech makes the fastest optic in the world, however there are drawbacks such as having to turn it on and much shorter battery life. For a tier 1 assualter it makes sense to get that small edge, but it comes with higher maintance and there is always prep time before hitting the target. Getting woke up in the middle of the night is not the time to try to find the on switch to an optic.
Trijicon makes a nice little sight in the MRO, however it has delicate battery terminals, has parallax shift, is slightly magnified giving fish eye and has a terrible blue tint like their RMRs. They also have considerably lower battery life than aimpoint. On the 2nd to highest setting I was getting 4-6 months before battery needed replacement. Not that big of a deal but more than once I picked up the gun and realized i had a dead battery.
Aimpoint have crystal clear glass, are bombproof and have amazing battery life. I have gone to Eotech and Trijicon more than once and always end up selling them all and buying a shit load of aimpoints. I think I am up to 8 or 9 various ones now. Not going to make that mistake again. Aimpoints also have the ability to carry an extra battery on them, which is nice if you are out or don't have a spare in your bag (Which you should have).
A typical 4 MOA dot will allow you to make reliable COM hits out to about 300 yards. The newer 2 moa dots allow more precision shots, but with bloom and its really not that much of a difference.
A 50 yard zero will give you good point blank offset and your 50 and 200 yard shots will be dead on with a typical .223/5.56 load.
Now if you have an astigmitism like many of us do, all red dots will look like oblong blobs. You can do a Prism sight but outside of the Steiner, most are more cheap chicom junk. An Acog like the TA33 may also be a good option but will be slower for up closer and you have issues with reticle illumination depending on your environment. Or just suck it up and rock a red dot. That would be my advice.
Hard to beat an Aimpoint Pro. $425ish new, $3-350ish used. Comes with a serviceable mount and a 5 year battery life that on max setting is more like one year. Never turn it off and change the battery once a year. No cheap chicom electronics to fail or a drifting zero.
Now if money is no issue, Look hard at the newer LPVO. With true 1x like reticles, there is no such thing as too much optic for a 10.5 or 11.5" gun. The NX8 would be perfect for a small carbine/pistol but the reticle sucks for longer work and the eyebox is kinda small. It does have a nuclear bright dot which is a must have for a fighting LPVO. For close in oh shit shooting you want a forgiving eyebox for heads up shooting. Money no object the Best to least Best would be the S&B CC Dual > Vortex Gen 3 > ATACR 8 > Gen 2 Razor > Kahles 1-6/8 > Eotech 1-6.
You could do the dot + magnifier but after running them for a few years, I went back to LPVO. Just a much better solution in a smaller footprint and way more versatile.
Lots of choices but choose wisely.
I have a Zeiss V4 1-4 on my 10.5”. Plan on doing some hunting this weekend with it.
