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AR targets & grade 8 bolts

stello1001

stello1001

Professional Newb
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Feb 20, 2017
    4,129
    2,910
    Corpus Christi TX
    Hello all,

    I am wanting to use grade 8 bolts and was wondering how you pierce the target for creating the holes where bolt will go through. I want to say I can drill through it, but then again, it's AR steel and I'll probably just end up scratching the surface.

    Any tips?
     
    I always buy targets with holes already.
    I have drilled out broken/mangled high grade bolts but we used some expensive super duper drill bits and a mag drill with a stand off on funky surfaces like a drive hub on a D8 so I’d think you could drill holes in AR500 but those bits probably cost more than a cheap plasma cutter.
     
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    Seems like I'd be better off buying plates pre-drilled already...

    What led me to create and post this thread is my 12x12 plate that I use broke yesterday. Well, the D ring that was welded on the back broke off, not the plate. I'm sure I could weld it again but clearly, it's not withstanding the force on it from bullet impacts. I'll post pics in a bit so you guys can see what I mean.
     
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    stello1001 said:
    Seems like I'd be better off buying plates pre-drilled already...

    What led me to create and post this thread is my 12x12 plate that I use broke yesterday. Well, the D ring that was welded on the back broke off, not the plate. I'm sure I could weld it again but clearly, it's not withstanding the force on it from bullet impacts. I'll post pics in a bit so you guys can see what I mean.
    Click to expand...
    I’m pretty sure most welding on AR500 weakens it and weld penetration is iffy.
    I’ve hard faced lots of hardened inserts but it’s not structural at all.

    Anymore I prefer T post and hangers.
    cheap to set up and cheap to replace.
     
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    Steel head said:
    I’m pretty sure most welding on AR500 weakens it and weld penetration is iffy.
    I’ve hard faced lots of hardened inserts but it’s not structural at all.

    Anymore I prefer T post and hangers.
    cheap to set up and cheap to replace.
    Click to expand...

    I wasn't too concerned with weakening the plate strength. It was pretty cheap and now that I remember, it's actually AR400. The only small craters it has, which is like 2 or 3, are from a buddy who shot it at sub 100 yards with 55 grain 5.56. Other than that, it's held up really good to my 6.5 and .223 at all distances I've shot at it with no cratering.

    20200413_160358.jpg


    That's what happened to my target yesterday that led me to create this thread lol!!!
     
    As far as grade 8 bolts being butter to a bullet...maybe at 100-150yd but I’ve had these targets on the single hangers for 10+ yrs shot with everything from a 220 swift at 3700fps to a 300wm running a 210 at 2900+ and have never had a 1/2” grade 8 bolt fail from 300yds out...
    DF61C0F5-2DDF-462C-830C-CC5EFCE6716F.jpeg
    0136BEE3-FF71-41BC-91CF-2991811EB8EE.jpeg
    6ECD86E1-DFC6-4F87-BBDF-45C2DF551DF5.jpeg
    803BD2B8-1D20-4AB8-BD1F-3DD0AFE99729.jpeg
    64D70EC0-9CB6-4D0D-90CE-57D54D8FFF88.jpeg
     
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    Why are you guys aiming for the bolts? ;)

    I've had the Grade 8 Washers fail...but the bolt heads....don't really get damaged much at 500+ yards.

    Also...found a great source for straps...old conveyor belt at work...stuff is great....even stuff 20+ years old.
     
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    I read an article about drilling ar plate. You use a masonry bit in a drill drill press on the lowest speed possible. Lots of force on the bit and no oil. I've never tried it. Liquid wrench works great on the corners. Just don't aim for the bolts.
     
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    Liking the suggestions thus far. I like how that D ring linked above will swivel in that enclosing. However, there's no way it'll stay angled. If I go with that option, the plate will lay completely perpendicular to the ground. I suppose it's not a problem if I'm shooting at it from long range. Occasionally though, I shoot pistol at if from a few yards away and I prefer all fragments to go down. I have had bullet particles ricochet back at us before.

    My other option, which is probably the best, would be to use bolts and conveyor belt to hang my target. For now though, I just had it welded to keep me going in the meantime.

    20200413_173119.jpg
     
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    The guy or gal that welded it could have burned a couple of holes in it too. That way you could hang it either way.
     
    Jscb1b said:
    The guy or gal that welded it could have burned a couple of holes in it too. That way you could hang it either way.
    Click to expand...

    I'm not a welder so I didn't know that, therefore I didn't ask for that lol. That's why I asked in this thread how to make holes in AR steel and no one said anything about welding into it lmfao.

    I'll keep that in mind though.
     
    I meant with a torch. But yeah I've made holes while stick welding. Most where on accident.
     
    So we all know why sex and welding are alike?

    The more penetration the better!
     
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    Just for shits and giggles, try shooting holes in the corners with m855.
     
    That 220 swift I mentioned about would put pits in my 330yd targets and knock little pieces off if the bullet caught the edges
     
    I use a lot of grade 8 bolts and they hold up good. About a year now on about 50 grade 8 carriage bolts and I haven't had one fail yet. I use to replace the grade 6 carriage bolts at least on a monthly basis before I found the grade 8s.

    Any added heat weather it be from torching or welding can soften the plate. It can also be a bit difficult to weld on.
     
    Grade 8 is pretty good....I centered some with my 6.5 SAUM at 100 yards and they got wrecked, but not to failure.
     
    Torch the hole. It does weaken the steel, but unlikely you ever see an issue. Waterjet is ideal, but lots of shit happens that's not ideal.
    Scrap plastic straps are best (of the hanging medium), but old belting and firehose also work to hang it.
    AR hangers work the best, but depends on the location. I use a lag hook for low volume public land, left on a buried 2x4. AR cut t post hangers for match steel. Just make sure no rigid connection to the plate. It helps them to flash when you hit them, and does not break the connection.
     
    I help manage a private clubs range. We have steel from 350 out to 600 yards. The grade 6 stuff would chip away and eventually fail. One well placed impact could take it out immediately. Coming up on a year and I haven't even noticed a chipped head on a grade 8 bolt yet.
    It has been a learning experience for me though. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have wasted time and money on straps and hardware. I would hang everything from ar500 hooks of some sort and never have to worry about maintenance or moving steel around for matches.
     
    Bear9350 said:
    I help manage a private clubs range. We have steel from 350 out to 600 yards. The grade 6 stuff would chip away and eventually fail. One well placed impact could take it out immediately. Coming up on a year and I haven't even noticed a chipped head on a grade 8 bolt yet.
    It has been a learning experience for me though. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have wasted time and money on straps and hardware. I would hang everything from ar500 hooks of some sort and never have to worry about maintenance or moving steel around for matches.
    Click to expand...
    what do you mean by ar500 hooks? got any pics?

    I only mentioned grade 8 bolts here on my thread because what I would want, ideally, is to bolt some conveyor belt pieces to my steel.
     
    stello1001 said:
    what do you mean by ar500 hooks? got any pics?

    I only mentioned grade 8 bolts here on my thread because what I would want, ideally, is to bolt some conveyor belt pieces to my steel.
    Click to expand...
    I imagine he’s talking about some companies making T-Post target hangers. Very easy to use and cost effective since they completely hide the hanger. You won’t (or at least shouldn’t if you hang them right) ever have to replace them. T-Posts are cheap if you ding them too many times.

    One option is HangFastTargets version of the idea, but I bought mine from MK Machining. Owner Tyler Kemp is a member here and offers a SH discount code if you search around. I like his design better too personally.
    mkmachining.com

    Gen II T-Post Target Mount

    Gen II T-Post Target Mount New Redesigned Gen II T-Post Target Mount. Lightweight and simple to use, our Gen II T-Post Mount now features a wrench cutout for 1/2-13 bolts and a one-piece design. Hang targets via a single spring-loaded carriage bolt for enhanced audibility and target ring. Our...
    mkmachining.com mkmachining.com
    I bought 10 of these to hang my handgun plates. Discounts if you buy sets of 5 or 10 (listed purchase item separately on the site), and they come with all Grade 8 hardware necessary to hang them. They work great, make for very reactionary steel, and super simple to put up/take down when you need to. I leave T-Posts in place and just remove my steel/hangers to keep people from sneaking onto the property and stealing them.
     
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    Most of the time when bolts fail it is not due to getting shot through by the bullet. Torque stresses on non grade bolts can snap them at the head causing the target to fall. It looks like a shoot through but if you look around you will usually find a pristine bolt head laying on the ground.
    This only happens with non grade bolts. I've never seen it happen with GRADE 8 .
    Here at the Hang Fast Range we have only had one Grade 8 bolt failure in 5 years and that was during a video shoot on shooting the bolt to see if it would fail.

    These pics show a NON GRADE bolt that lasted 20 rounds on our Short Range Rifle Target. I didn't have a 5" Grade 8 bolt and substituted this Non Grade bolt instead.
    hgqOfEE.jpg

    8aBFJkX.jpg
     
    stello1001 said:
    what do you mean by ar500 hooks? got any pics?

    I only mentioned grade 8 bolts here on my thread because what I would want, ideally, is to bolt some conveyor belt pieces to my steel.
    Click to expand...

    Something like what JC steel targets offers. I have spent enough money on rubber straps and all the hardware to go along with it over the last couple years to justify getting some AR500 cut to make my own hangers. If I was starting out with no steel, target stands etc everything would be hung using this system with preferebly an ar500 t-post.
     
    vinconco said:
    Most of the time when bolts fail it is not due to getting shot through by the bullet. Torque stresses on non grade bolts can snap them at the head causing the target to fall. It looks like a shoot through but if you look around you will usually find a pristine bolt head laying on the ground.
    This only happens with non grade bolts. I've never seen it happen with GRADE 8 .
    Here at the Hang Fast Range we have only had one Grade 8 bolt failure in 5 years and that was during a video shoot on shooting the bolt to see if it would fail.

    These pics show a NON GRADE bolt that lasted 20 rounds on our Short Range Rifle Target. I didn't have a 5" Grade 8 bolt and substituted this Non Grade bolt instead.
    hgqOfEE.jpg

    8aBFJkX.jpg
    Click to expand...
    I have seen and repaired countless examples of grade 6 carriage bolts with chips shot off the head of the bolt or half of the head of the carriage bolt missing.
     
    Unless it's just camera angle, if the top of the d ring is exposed to impacts that's more than likely why it broke
     
    47guy said:
    As far as grade 8 bolts being butter to a bullet...maybe at 100-150yd but I’ve had these targets on the single hangers for 10+ yrs shot with everything from a 220 swift at 3700fps to a 300wm running a 210 at 2900+ and have never had a 1/2” grade 8 bolt fail from 300yds out... View attachment 7297785View attachment 7297786View attachment 7297787View attachment 7297788View attachment 7297789
    Click to expand...

    Holy CRAP, can I just say I want your range????

    I need me some land... ?
     
    I snagged a plate of ar400 from the scrap pile at work. Not a chance I’d want to drill it with anything short of a mag base and carbide annular cutter. And even then...

    I’d go with a torch. Also, a 6011 rod cranked up to nuclear will gouge a fine bolt hole.
     
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    You shouldn’t have to worry about the small area your welding to, for weakening (annealing) the steel. I would set up a heat-sink and anneal the area of the plate to be welded. If you have questions hit me up. I owned a welding and fab shop for many years.
     
    Bear9350 said:
    Yep, my bad. I meant Grade 5.
    Click to expand...

    There is a fairly significant difference between Grade 5 and 8

    Grade 5 Medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered. 120,000 psi tensile strength
    Grade 8 Medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 150,000 psi tensile strength

    With lower tensile strength the heads are more prone to pop off from torque forces than getting shot off.
     
    The length of your D-ring gives it more leverage to stress fracture over time. I simply held a chain link to the back of the plate. Gives it enough tilt for the close up handguns. Over time these brake as well when hit with bigger calibers like my 500 S&W and 72 Cal black powder rifle. Then I just reweld it.
     
    Matthew488 said:
    The length of your D-ring gives it more leverage to stress fracture over time. I simply held a chain link to the back of the plate. Gives it enough tilt for the close up handguns. Over time these brake as well when hit with bigger calibers like my 500 S&W and 72 Cal black powder rifle. Then I just reweld it.
    Click to expand...
    Well I also had the crazy idea to completely remove the whole D ring and weld a one inch or inch and a half ridgid conduit. It would allow me insert a chain on one end and have it come out the other in order to hang that way. Or I could also insert a long piece of rebar in that conduit and find a way to hang the rebar on my target stand which my target would be hanging off the rebar if that makes sense. That would allow the plate to swivel back and forth when impacted.

    However, I do believe at that point, I may be over thinking it lol.
     
    Bring this thread back up to ask where everyone is finding conveyor belt?
    My new to me 308 broke the D-ring off right at the new welds lol. Gonna have to weld some holes through it and use grade 8 bolts with conveyor belt. I think others have mentioned fire hose also works, if so, where do you normally find this stuff...
     
    stello1001 said:
    Bring this thread back up to ask where everyone is finding conveyor belt?
    My new to me 308 broke the D-ring off right at the new welds lol. Gonna have to weld some holes through it and use grade 8 bolts with conveyor belt. I think others have mentioned fire hose also works, if so, where do you normally find this stuff...
    Click to expand...

    ads.midwayusa.com

    U.S. Ballistics Steel Target 12 Rubber Hanging Strap Set

    Set up your target with the U.S. Ballistics Steel Target Rubber Hanging Strap Set. Made of reinforced rubber conveyor belt, these straps are lighter and...
    ads.midwayusa.com ads.midwayusa.com

    or google used conveyor belt and make some phone calls.
     
    stello1001 said:
    Bring this thread back up to ask where everyone is finding conveyor belt?
    My new to me 308 broke the D-ring off right at the new welds lol. Gonna have to weld some holes through it and use grade 8 bolts with conveyor belt. I think others have mentioned fire hose also works, if so, where do you normally find this stuff...
    Click to expand...
    Old fire hose also works well.
     
    stello1001 said:
    Bring this thread back up to ask where everyone is finding conveyor belt?
    My new to me 308 broke the D-ring off right at the new welds lol. Gonna have to weld some holes through it and use grade 8 bolts with conveyor belt. I think others have mentioned fire hose also works, if so, where do you normally find this stuff...
    Click to expand...

    I get it from work. We break/wear out conveyor belt all the time...it just gets dumped into the garbage. I'll take 12, 18, 24 inch wide belt and cut it down to strips. I just throw it on the drill press and drill half inch holes through it and it works great.

    If you have a friend that works in a factory...ask them....if you have a friend that is a fireman...ask them. If you were 18 hours closer...I'd give you some.
     
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