I've been having trouble locating a machinest/gunsmith to square up the front on my ar upper. When i first the gun every shot pulled hard to the right. A knew a little about blueprinting rem 700's as I own one and ordered the brownell's upper squring tool and polished the face down to an even surface as by my eye. Reassembled the gun and all pull to the right has stopped. I would like to have it put in a lathe and trued one good time and be done with it. But after searching on here I could find people talking about it but no one recomending a company. I tryed my local guy who does amazing work on 700's but he set he's never done one and the set up time alone would break me. I sent an email today to a Cactus weapons who say they do it and am waiting on a reply but i have never heard of them before today. Thanks.
Gunsmithing Ar trueing
- Thread starter turbosc
- Start date
Re: Ar trueing
I cant imagine that would be cost effective vs. buying a new upper.
That said, a AR-15 upper is not the pillar of accuracy. They can be off a little bit and becuse of the design its usually not a big deal
I cant imagine that would be cost effective vs. buying a new upper.
That said, a AR-15 upper is not the pillar of accuracy. They can be off a little bit and becuse of the design its usually not a big deal
Re: Ar trueing
If you have fixed the issue why are you trying to "fix it more"?
If you have fixed the issue why are you trying to "fix it more"?
Re: Ar trueing
Brownells sells an AR-15 upper facing mandrel that you turn by attaching to a drill. I use it on every build and I have seen some significant accuracy increases with it before and after. You would be surprised at how "off" some uppers are (or not
)
Never mind you already figured this out.
Cheers,
Doc
Brownells sells an AR-15 upper facing mandrel that you turn by attaching to a drill. I use it on every build and I have seen some significant accuracy increases with it before and after. You would be surprised at how "off" some uppers are (or not
Never mind you already figured this out.
Cheers,
Doc
Re: Ar trueing
How about just doing it yourself?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/810457/ar-stoner-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=wishList
How about just doing it yourself?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/810457/ar-stoner-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=wishList
Re: Ar trueing
The other area so many overlook is the lateral movement between the upper and lower. Check and see how much play there is between the "lugs" of the upper and the areas they pin into on the lower. When you drop the hammer (attached to the lower) and it contacts the bolt/FP (sitting in the upper) that play can result in minor movement at a critical moment.
As far as the upper goes, if you have it faced then just be sure your barrel nut is within spec on torque. If your extension pin recess allows for some movement then you can use the old shaprie trick to see if you're square first. Just color the face of the receiver (if you removed the anodizing it'll be silver and realy easy to see), and just slide the barrel in an twist it back and forth for a bit. Check and see how much contact is being made and if there is any sign of it being out of square. Just like using Dykem to check bolt lug lap.
Be mindful of how much you take off of the face of the upper. Too much and you'll get extension hang inside the receiver and it'll be toast (or a straight pull single shot) as it's not going to feed for shit after that.
Not to be a negative nelly, but for the price of a new upper, the Gunsmithing fees are not worth it. But if you run out of options, PM me and we'll take care of you one way or another. Good luck!
The other area so many overlook is the lateral movement between the upper and lower. Check and see how much play there is between the "lugs" of the upper and the areas they pin into on the lower. When you drop the hammer (attached to the lower) and it contacts the bolt/FP (sitting in the upper) that play can result in minor movement at a critical moment.
As far as the upper goes, if you have it faced then just be sure your barrel nut is within spec on torque. If your extension pin recess allows for some movement then you can use the old shaprie trick to see if you're square first. Just color the face of the receiver (if you removed the anodizing it'll be silver and realy easy to see), and just slide the barrel in an twist it back and forth for a bit. Check and see how much contact is being made and if there is any sign of it being out of square. Just like using Dykem to check bolt lug lap.
Be mindful of how much you take off of the face of the upper. Too much and you'll get extension hang inside the receiver and it'll be toast (or a straight pull single shot) as it's not going to feed for shit after that.
Not to be a negative nelly, but for the price of a new upper, the Gunsmithing fees are not worth it. But if you run out of options, PM me and we'll take care of you one way or another. Good luck!
Re: Ar trueing
My question is... If EVERY shot "pulled" to the right, would that not just be your point of impact?
My question is... If EVERY shot "pulled" to the right, would that not just be your point of impact?
Re: Ar trueing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hsss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it doesn't seem like it would take that long to turn a driving spud and treat it like a 700 </div></div>
It isn't hard at all. 1" 5C collet. 1" round stock of your choice (ours is 304 SS). Have at it. We have it set up with an indexing pin to keep it from turning on the tool, but never use it as the fit is tight (on quality milspec recs) and we are just kissing the face with the insert.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hsss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it doesn't seem like it would take that long to turn a driving spud and treat it like a 700 </div></div>
It isn't hard at all. 1" 5C collet. 1" round stock of your choice (ours is 304 SS). Have at it. We have it set up with an indexing pin to keep it from turning on the tool, but never use it as the fit is tight (on quality milspec recs) and we are just kissing the face with the insert.
Re: Ar trueing
Jon the POI wasnt right when you free handed shot the gun the rifle would recoil and pull violently to the right. The other two people sugesting that I order the squaring bar from midway/ brownell's. Thats what I ment that I had and already used in my original post. Thanks all for your replys.
Jon the POI wasnt right when you free handed shot the gun the rifle would recoil and pull violently to the right. The other two people sugesting that I order the squaring bar from midway/ brownell's. Thats what I ment that I had and already used in my original post. Thanks all for your replys.
Re: Ar trueing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbosc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cause I want to </div></div>
The intent of my earlier question wasn't to elicit a smartass answer from someone who obviously is ignorant about the subject at hand.
It was to indicate, if you properly utilized the tool you had purchased to fix the problem and the problem was solved, further receiver face work would most likely yield no results other than a lightened wallet.
Feel free however to toss your $$$ away.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbosc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cause I want to </div></div>
The intent of my earlier question wasn't to elicit a smartass answer from someone who obviously is ignorant about the subject at hand.
It was to indicate, if you properly utilized the tool you had purchased to fix the problem and the problem was solved, further receiver face work would most likely yield no results other than a lightened wallet.
Feel free however to toss your $$$ away.
Re: Ar trueing
If you buy a billet upper you wont have that issue. We cut the face of the upper and the bore that the barrel extension sits in all at the same time in the same operation. You wouldn't be able to re-mount it and dial it in on anything and make it more square than the matsurra cnc cut it. Then you can sell the one you have.
If you buy a billet upper you wont have that issue. We cut the face of the upper and the bore that the barrel extension sits in all at the same time in the same operation. You wouldn't be able to re-mount it and dial it in on anything and make it more square than the matsurra cnc cut it. Then you can sell the one you have.
Re: Ar trueing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbosc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cause I want to </div></div>
The intent of my earlier question wasn't to elicit a smartass answer from someone who obviously is ignorant about the subject at hand.
It was to indicate, if you properly utilized the tool you had purchased to fix the problem and the problem was solved, further receiver face work would most likely yield no results other than a lightened wallet.
Feel free however to toss your $$$ away. </div></div>
I actually placed my calber on the 'tool at hand' after I had used it and found there to be a .0025 divience in it. Im not sure how I could use it differently to get it under .001. I was doing this to get all the possible accuracy out of the action I could. I have gotten it trued in a lathe now and tried out some military bulk ammo that was shooting about a 2.5 group and now its down to 1.5. I havnt tried out my hand loads yet but te best I was gettig out of them before was 1.5. I might have to teak the load some but I imagine it had gotten better. I had another member of this board offer to do this for 20 dollars return shipping included so its not like it was some great deal of money that was going to be wasted. But I ended up making new friends with a former machinest at work and got it done free.
Here is why you get a smart ass answer. Because I asked for imput and where I could get this done. Not what is every one's personal opinion about it and can some one please talk me out of it. But more people are worries about how loud they can talk over people and asserting there opinion of what should be done than what the actual question was.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbosc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cause I want to </div></div>
The intent of my earlier question wasn't to elicit a smartass answer from someone who obviously is ignorant about the subject at hand.
It was to indicate, if you properly utilized the tool you had purchased to fix the problem and the problem was solved, further receiver face work would most likely yield no results other than a lightened wallet.
Feel free however to toss your $$$ away. </div></div>
I actually placed my calber on the 'tool at hand' after I had used it and found there to be a .0025 divience in it. Im not sure how I could use it differently to get it under .001. I was doing this to get all the possible accuracy out of the action I could. I have gotten it trued in a lathe now and tried out some military bulk ammo that was shooting about a 2.5 group and now its down to 1.5. I havnt tried out my hand loads yet but te best I was gettig out of them before was 1.5. I might have to teak the load some but I imagine it had gotten better. I had another member of this board offer to do this for 20 dollars return shipping included so its not like it was some great deal of money that was going to be wasted. But I ended up making new friends with a former machinest at work and got it done free.
Here is why you get a smart ass answer. Because I asked for imput and where I could get this done. Not what is every one's personal opinion about it and can some one please talk me out of it. But more people are worries about how loud they can talk over people and asserting there opinion of what should be done than what the actual question was.
Re: Ar trueing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you buy a billet upper you wont have that issue. We cut the face of the upper and the bore that the barrel extension sits in all at the same time in the same operation. You wouldn't be able to re-mount it and dial it in on anything and make it more square than the matsurra cnc cut it. Then you can sell the one you have. </div></div>
If I ever do a ground up build I will go billet. I didnt realize how bad off a cast can be sometimes untill I retraced the threads and had this one trued.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you buy a billet upper you wont have that issue. We cut the face of the upper and the bore that the barrel extension sits in all at the same time in the same operation. You wouldn't be able to re-mount it and dial it in on anything and make it more square than the matsurra cnc cut it. Then you can sell the one you have. </div></div>
If I ever do a ground up build I will go billet. I didnt realize how bad off a cast can be sometimes untill I retraced the threads and had this one trued.
