Got me some 1/2" AR500. Will a .223 round still damage it at 2550FPS? My 308's are going 2650fps, but wasnt sure if those little bastards would tear it up.
Thanks!
Thanks!
- Thread starter Jackalope33B
- Start date
Re: AR500 Question
There have been three things that have damaged my AR-500 plates.
1.hollow points (copper plated steel, wolf, brown bear etc.) going really really fast. These just put little dimples in the plate. Nothing big.
2. Real-deal AP. Nearly penetrated it with original M2 AP from an M1 Garand
3. Bullets loaded backwards in the case. Read about it in a WWI article and gave it a try. Sure enough, these 155gr FMJ's loaded backwards in a .30-06 put some real hurt on the plate.
Everything else splashes and peels paint.
So to you, I say at worst you're going to get little tiny dings, like 1/16" wide and even less deep. Shoot the shit out of it
The smaller "pocks" in that plate above were from 5.56 at like 10-25yd. Plate at that point probably had 4000-6000 impacts.
There have been three things that have damaged my AR-500 plates.
1.hollow points (copper plated steel, wolf, brown bear etc.) going really really fast. These just put little dimples in the plate. Nothing big.
2. Real-deal AP. Nearly penetrated it with original M2 AP from an M1 Garand
3. Bullets loaded backwards in the case. Read about it in a WWI article and gave it a try. Sure enough, these 155gr FMJ's loaded backwards in a .30-06 put some real hurt on the plate.
Everything else splashes and peels paint.
So to you, I say at worst you're going to get little tiny dings, like 1/16" wide and even less deep. Shoot the shit out of it
Re: AR500 Question
This raises a good question.
What stands up to consistent .50BMG and .375CT solids?
and
Where can I get it?
This raises a good question.
What stands up to consistent .50BMG and .375CT solids?
and
Where can I get it?
Re: AR500 Question
( MIL-A-12560 ). Look up Chapel steel locations.
( MIL-A-12560 ). Look up Chapel steel locations.
Re: AR500 Question
We shoot everything at 3/8" ar500. 5.56 can leave small dimples (dimples like on a golf ball) out to 100yds. We may hit at 50yds with 308 and no damage to steel. We have even hit with 338 at 200yds, which I don't recall any damage. We usually use swinging targets for closer shots. Does it help? Maybe. I feel small and fast may do more damage, but opinions may vary.
As for the .50 cal, bring it out and we will see what happens.
We shoot everything at 3/8" ar500. 5.56 can leave small dimples (dimples like on a golf ball) out to 100yds. We may hit at 50yds with 308 and no damage to steel. We have even hit with 338 at 200yds, which I don't recall any damage. We usually use swinging targets for closer shots. Does it help? Maybe. I feel small and fast may do more damage, but opinions may vary.
As for the .50 cal, bring it out and we will see what happens.
Re: AR500 Question
Jake from JCsteel told me that ar500 can handle 223 even a 7mm mag just dont shoot fmj or may dimple it.
Jake from JCsteel told me that ar500 can handle 223 even a 7mm mag just dont shoot fmj or may dimple it.
Re: AR500 Question
Jack you will be fine. Shoot the crap out of it and most of all, have fun!!!!
I have a 6 inch square 1/2" thick that I have torture tested with everything from AP 5.56 and AP 308, to 50 cal BMG. All at 100 yards and under.
THe most damage actually comes from AP 5.56 because its fast and small.
But to be honest, I just paint the plate up again, and keep on shooting at it. It holds up really well to anything that can be thrown at it.
Jack you will be fine. Shoot the crap out of it and most of all, have fun!!!!
I have a 6 inch square 1/2" thick that I have torture tested with everything from AP 5.56 and AP 308, to 50 cal BMG. All at 100 yards and under.
THe most damage actually comes from AP 5.56 because its fast and small.
But to be honest, I just paint the plate up again, and keep on shooting at it. It holds up really well to anything that can be thrown at it.
Re: AR500 Question
I can't read so I'm going to take a long time out to learn to read the rules.
I can't read so I'm going to take a long time out to learn to read the rules.
Re: AR500 Question
i actually wanted to test AR500 last weekend....we've been shooting it at 100 and 200yds....and there's no REAL damage done. At 100yds a hot loaded 308 with 155gr FMJ's will little pecks.....a fmj 55gr 5.56 does the same (maybe a little deeper)....a 5.45x39 did nothing but scrape paint.
That was all well and good...but we wanted to do SOME damage...so 50yds it is. 223 shooting a hot 52gr amax (all i had left that day) put a nice little crater in it...not too deep, and nothing could be felt on the back. So...I was happy with that, and my best friend decided to launch a 142gr out of his 260 at it...the target flipped and flung around like it was on fire! Didn't do jack squat to it though...other than straightening out the S-hooks a tiny bit.
This stuff is great! Btw...we were shooting 1/2 mini-ipsc from jcvibby at 50yds and 100, and one of his 6x6" plates on a t-post mount at 200
i actually wanted to test AR500 last weekend....we've been shooting it at 100 and 200yds....and there's no REAL damage done. At 100yds a hot loaded 308 with 155gr FMJ's will little pecks.....a fmj 55gr 5.56 does the same (maybe a little deeper)....a 5.45x39 did nothing but scrape paint.
That was all well and good...but we wanted to do SOME damage...so 50yds it is. 223 shooting a hot 52gr amax (all i had left that day) put a nice little crater in it...not too deep, and nothing could be felt on the back. So...I was happy with that, and my best friend decided to launch a 142gr out of his 260 at it...the target flipped and flung around like it was on fire! Didn't do jack squat to it though...other than straightening out the S-hooks a tiny bit.
This stuff is great! Btw...we were shooting 1/2 mini-ipsc from jcvibby at 50yds and 100, and one of his 6x6" plates on a t-post mount at 200
Re: AR500 Question
For the rest of you guys that know the rules, I appreciate the feedback. I plan on shooting this weekend. Ill let you know how it turns out
For the rest of you guys that know the rules, I appreciate the feedback. I plan on shooting this weekend. Ill let you know how it turns out
Re: AR500 Question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This raises a good question.
What stands up to consistent .50BMG and .375CT solids?
and
Where can I get it?</div></div>
thicker AR500... 1" should take on 50..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This raises a good question.
What stands up to consistent .50BMG and .375CT solids?
and
Where can I get it?</div></div>
thicker AR500... 1" should take on 50..
Re: AR500 Question
How about .375CT solids? .30-06 AP?
I have seen some reduced size torsos for sale and they were mounted using protruding bolts (a system that seems subject to failure), also some flat rounds, but no full-size, flat faced AR500 torsos and nothing at all 1".
I'm thinking this is going to be expensive.
How about .375CT solids? .30-06 AP?
I have seen some reduced size torsos for sale and they were mounted using protruding bolts (a system that seems subject to failure), also some flat rounds, but no full-size, flat faced AR500 torsos and nothing at all 1".
I'm thinking this is going to be expensive.
Re: AR500 Question
5/8" will work for the .50 BMG
5/8" will work for the .50 BMG
Re: AR500 Question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about .375CT solids? .30-06 AP?
I have seen some reduced size torsos for sale and they were mounted using protruding bolts (a system that seems subject to failure), also some flat rounds, but no full-size, flat faced AR500 torsos and nothing at all 1".
I'm thinking this is going to be expensive. </div></div>
Real deal AP (hardened steel or tungsten) will destroy it, no matter how thick it is. Thicker will last longer, but the AP cores dig spiral-ish cones resembling the shape of the core into the plate. .30-06 M2 AP will almost penetrate 1/2" (and will poke thru the back side some times), but always leave at least a 3/8" deep cone on the impact. Some times the core sticks.
From my experience.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about .375CT solids? .30-06 AP?
I have seen some reduced size torsos for sale and they were mounted using protruding bolts (a system that seems subject to failure), also some flat rounds, but no full-size, flat faced AR500 torsos and nothing at all 1".
I'm thinking this is going to be expensive. </div></div>
Real deal AP (hardened steel or tungsten) will destroy it, no matter how thick it is. Thicker will last longer, but the AP cores dig spiral-ish cones resembling the shape of the core into the plate. .30-06 M2 AP will almost penetrate 1/2" (and will poke thru the back side some times), but always leave at least a 3/8" deep cone on the impact. Some times the core sticks.
From my experience.
Re: AR500 Question
The results of shooting rounds designed to defeat Armor plate.... At Armor Plate should be fairly predictable.
Everything else at realistic distances for the caliber will be just fine. We have done a PILE of testing of our target stands at 100 yards with .338's and such. They may fold a plate like a Taco, but so far only the .223's leave dimples.
The results of shooting rounds designed to defeat Armor plate.... At Armor Plate should be fairly predictable.
Everything else at realistic distances for the caliber will be just fine. We have done a PILE of testing of our target stands at 100 yards with .338's and such. They may fold a plate like a Taco, but so far only the .223's leave dimples.
Re: AR500 Question
Speed kills. At 2600 with .223 you should be fine with non AP, maybe some dimples but not much worse. At 3000+ on the other hand you'll start doing some damage. Kinetic energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. Mass is important, but since you are working with the square of velocity, speed becomes the most important component very quickly. From what I've seen, how you mount the target has as much as anything to do with how long its lasts as anything else. Knock down targets are easy and last a long time, but follow up shots pretty much mean shooting almost straight up and praying a lot. Swinging targets take a little more thought and effort, but as long as they aren't too heavy for the round they work very well. Any target mounted so that it cannot move or so heavy that it doesn't move will have to absorb the full KE of the round and will be destroyed in fairly short order if you are shooting it too close. Targets have to be treated as consumables like barrels. Better materials will last longer, but eventually with enough hits you'll wreck anything.
Speed kills. At 2600 with .223 you should be fine with non AP, maybe some dimples but not much worse. At 3000+ on the other hand you'll start doing some damage. Kinetic energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. Mass is important, but since you are working with the square of velocity, speed becomes the most important component very quickly. From what I've seen, how you mount the target has as much as anything to do with how long its lasts as anything else. Knock down targets are easy and last a long time, but follow up shots pretty much mean shooting almost straight up and praying a lot. Swinging targets take a little more thought and effort, but as long as they aren't too heavy for the round they work very well. Any target mounted so that it cannot move or so heavy that it doesn't move will have to absorb the full KE of the round and will be destroyed in fairly short order if you are shooting it too close. Targets have to be treated as consumables like barrels. Better materials will last longer, but eventually with enough hits you'll wreck anything.
Re: AR500 Question
Surplus 5.56 FMJ 55 gr will punch right thru 1" mild at 100. Target bullets should at least come apart.
If you let your steel "swing" ....ropes, chains, or some other way to let it help absorb the impact....it will help save your steel including AR500. Rigid mounted AR500 can still take a beating.
Surplus 5.56 FMJ 55 gr will punch right thru 1" mild at 100. Target bullets should at least come apart.
If you let your steel "swing" ....ropes, chains, or some other way to let it help absorb the impact....it will help save your steel including AR500. Rigid mounted AR500 can still take a beating.
Re: AR500 Question
Do not shoot AR500 with a 22-250 remington or simular round (69 gr bthp @ 3300 fps) at 40 yards. Blows right through, ask me how I know. BAD DESICION MAKING SKILLS!!
I thought I would be cute and ring one of my plates I set out as pistol targets my buddy was having a hard time connecting with. The round didnt even budge the plate. Hell, I thought I missed as well, untill we went to collect our steel. A .224 ray of sunlight shinning through.
A $30 lesson learned
Do not shoot AR500 with a 22-250 remington or simular round (69 gr bthp @ 3300 fps) at 40 yards. Blows right through, ask me how I know. BAD DESICION MAKING SKILLS!!
I thought I would be cute and ring one of my plates I set out as pistol targets my buddy was having a hard time connecting with. The round didnt even budge the plate. Hell, I thought I missed as well, untill we went to collect our steel. A .224 ray of sunlight shinning through.
A $30 lesson learned
Re: AR500 Question
I have punished some of my steel with my 6.5 Creedmoor,123 @3020. So now I don't shoot it any closer than 300 yards on the new targets.
I have punished some of my steel with my 6.5 Creedmoor,123 @3020. So now I don't shoot it any closer than 300 yards on the new targets.
Re: AR500 Question
I read all this and it really makes me wonder what we had our targets made out of at the SDM school. We shot the living shit out those targets from 20 feet to 800m, with everything from M193, M855, LR118, .50 ball. Nothing really dented the plates, at 20ft. the rounds sort of "melt" and it looks like welding splatter, but the plate is fine. You can scrape the melted lead off. No dents like above, none at all.
The only thing that ever damaged those plates after years of use was when we shot it with the new XM107 with some Raufoss rounds when Barrett came to our school to give a class on it. Those looked just like a plasma cutter just burned a hole through it. But I understand the Raufoss is ballistically similar to a 20mm shell due to the RDX and penetrator in it, so no wonder it didn't hold up.
Those plates were standard army silhouette size; we had the small ones and some peppers too. Peppers were always my favorite target btw. Now he said those plates were made here locally and they cost about $300 per target. They probably weighed 200lbs? Maybe 300? Ridiculously damn heavy, you can't really set one up alone and you need a vehicle to take it downrange. We had sharpened angle iron welded to the back for legs. Rounds that hit that would just cut through, we had to replace legs, but never targets.
I'm getting ready to get a set of targets and start making monthly trips to the desert in E. WA so I can shoot at some decent distance in peace. I also plan on getting either an MRAD, AI in .338 or a Cheytac in .408 (I want the .408!). So based on what you guys are saying on here and the pictures, AR500 may not be what we used and it may not be sufficient for my needs. M855 is going to be the mildest load I'll be using, 'cept maybe some pistol drills with the peppers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takeaim1st</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ( MIL-A-12560 ). Look up Chapel steel locations.</div></div>
Yeah, I just called 'em. They said they don't stock that anymore. But we talked a bit, his brother is in Asstan, a Ranger here at Ft. Lewis. Anyway, he said he'd look into it and get back. I told him what I'd be doing with it and that it needed to be significantly stronger than the .5 AR500.
It is possible those targets we had were .75 inch and AR500, but I just really don't know. Anyway, when the guy gets back, I'll let you know what he recommends. He says they do steel for a LOT of ranges in the NW (and armor) so they should know.
I read all this and it really makes me wonder what we had our targets made out of at the SDM school. We shot the living shit out those targets from 20 feet to 800m, with everything from M193, M855, LR118, .50 ball. Nothing really dented the plates, at 20ft. the rounds sort of "melt" and it looks like welding splatter, but the plate is fine. You can scrape the melted lead off. No dents like above, none at all.
The only thing that ever damaged those plates after years of use was when we shot it with the new XM107 with some Raufoss rounds when Barrett came to our school to give a class on it. Those looked just like a plasma cutter just burned a hole through it. But I understand the Raufoss is ballistically similar to a 20mm shell due to the RDX and penetrator in it, so no wonder it didn't hold up.
Those plates were standard army silhouette size; we had the small ones and some peppers too. Peppers were always my favorite target btw. Now he said those plates were made here locally and they cost about $300 per target. They probably weighed 200lbs? Maybe 300? Ridiculously damn heavy, you can't really set one up alone and you need a vehicle to take it downrange. We had sharpened angle iron welded to the back for legs. Rounds that hit that would just cut through, we had to replace legs, but never targets.
I'm getting ready to get a set of targets and start making monthly trips to the desert in E. WA so I can shoot at some decent distance in peace. I also plan on getting either an MRAD, AI in .338 or a Cheytac in .408 (I want the .408!). So based on what you guys are saying on here and the pictures, AR500 may not be what we used and it may not be sufficient for my needs. M855 is going to be the mildest load I'll be using, 'cept maybe some pistol drills with the peppers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takeaim1st</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ( MIL-A-12560 ). Look up Chapel steel locations.</div></div>
Yeah, I just called 'em. They said they don't stock that anymore. But we talked a bit, his brother is in Asstan, a Ranger here at Ft. Lewis. Anyway, he said he'd look into it and get back. I told him what I'd be doing with it and that it needed to be significantly stronger than the .5 AR500.
It is possible those targets we had were .75 inch and AR500, but I just really don't know. Anyway, when the guy gets back, I'll let you know what he recommends. He says they do steel for a LOT of ranges in the NW (and armor) so they should know.
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