Rifle Scopes ARDs vs. Sunshades

BigBrother

BigBrother

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 27, 2007
687
5
New England
#1
Looking to add some glare protection to my Leupold Mark 4 40mm.

What has been your guys' experience with sunshades vs. ARDs? Do either have a tendency to diminish overall brightness or clarity? Any brand recommendations? (SunGuard ARDs seem to be popular on Midway). Thoughts?

Thanks for your input!
 
#2
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

A sunshade does not diminish the brightness of the target. An ARD must, the amount depending on how it's built.

If you don't shoot on a 2-way range, and hence are not worried about being detected by reflections from your glass, there's no advantage to an ARD, unless you have chicks who dig tactical stuff.
 
#3
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

A sunshade can not reduce brightness as it is not blocking anything in its view. It is all what you want to do. Do you need an ARD? If you don't need it go with a sunshade

You beat me to it Lindy
 
#4
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

Heh, certainly not on any two way range with this guy
smile.gif


I just thought, from what I read, that an ARD will serve to reduce glare like a sunshade without the added length.

Also, to delve a sec into optical theory, I've always wondered how it was that a sunshade has zero impact on brightness. I realize the center of the lens is what it's important and that it's focusing light from a distance, but I'd still think the ambient light coming in from around would brighten the image. Yet a sunshade removes a lot of it. Insight?
 
#7
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heh, certainly not on any two way range with this guy
smile.gif


I just thought, from what I read, that an ARD will serve to reduce glare like a sunshade without the added length.

Also, to delve a sec into optical theory, I've always wondered how it was that a sunshade has zero impact on brightness. I realize the center of the lens is what it's important and that it's focusing light from a distance, but I'd still think the ambient light coming in from around would brighten the image. Yet a sunshade removes a lot of it. Insight?</div></div>

Any light that is not the image that you are viewing, that is coming into the scope tube will diminish that image.
Also you are not viewing just the center of the lens you ARE viewing the entire lens (on a good scope). Kind of like the difference between a 20 inch TV and a big screen HDTV
 
#8
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there is a straight optical path from your eye to the target, as with a sunshade, how can the sunshade diminish the brightness <span style="font-style: italic">of the target</span>?
</div></div>

I guess I assumed that ambient light coming in around the objective's edge is somehow transmitted to the scope's interior and boosts the overall brightness of what you're seeing.

Otherwise, how would a larger objective lead to brighter images, if you're just viewing what's in the center?
 
#9
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

Brightness of a scope is a function of gathering photons. A larger objective can gather more photons. If a sunshade or ARD impedes light-gathering ability then the overall image brightness will diminish, even if slight.

You'd need to place a light meter behind the scope to know if the sunshade or ARD affects brightness. A properly-designed shade shouldn't affect anything. An ARD blocks area and will affect brightness in some manner.
 
#10
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there is a straight optical path from your eye to the target, as with a sunshade, how can the sunshade diminish the brightness <span style="font-style: italic">of the target</span>?
</div></div>

I guess I assumed that ambient light coming in around the objective's edge is somehow transmitted to the scope's interior and boosts the overall brightness of what you're seeing.

Otherwise, how would a larger objective lead to brighter images, if you're just viewing what's in the center?</div></div>

In hillbilly, it is like a guy standing 20 feet in front of you and I am off to your left with a flashlight in your eyes from the side. Is it easier to see the guy with the flashlight on or off?
 
#11
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

I personally do not like sunshades. I think they are bulky and just don't accomplish much. I do use an ARD on my duty rifle but only attach it when I'm going in the field. I seldom use it at the range due to the fact it does reduce the clarity of the scope about 10%-15%. I use S & B scopes on my rifles and figure if your going to pay for clarity why mess with it by adding an ARD unless someone is trying to find you.
Just my .02 cents

As for which company to use. Most all the good ones are made by Tenebraex. Leupold just puts one of there stickers on the packaging and charges $40 more than if you ordered it directly. I am pretty sure they also make the ones you are referring to at Midway. That is the one that I have on my S & B. Works great for its intended purpose. JAA
 
#12
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper52</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally do not like sunshades. I think they are bulky and just don't accomplish much. I do use an ARD on my duty rifle but only attach it when I'm going in the field. I seldom use it at the range due to the fact it does reduce the clarity of the scope about 10%-15%. I use S & B scopes on my rifles and figure if your going to pay for clarity why mess with it by adding an ARD unless someone is trying to find you.
Just my .02 cents

</div></div>

It is just common sense.
 
#13
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

As other's have stated, a sunshade will not hurt the clarity of the target. Sunshades increase contrast as off-axis light entering the front objective is reduced.

In amateur astronomy it is very common for the telescopes to have shrouds around the optical path to keep out stray light from the sides. Other scopes may have extended shields lined with black felt (called flocking paper) or sprayed with flat black paint to absorb stray light entering the assembly. Astronomers are all about collecting as much light as possible from what they are trying to see. Shrouds around the optics help them do this.

Inside of many refractor optics (like rifle scopes) there is light baffling designed to keep out light that did not enter from where the lens is pointed directly (look down your own rifle scope and you may see ridges on the walls that do this).

Photographers also use lens hoods to make sharper images and reduce lens flare by keeping out light from the sides.

An FAQ on lens baffles and why they are used in telescopes can help explain some of these issues:

http://www.freeweb.hu/gyulaipal/eng/baffles.html

The more light you can keep out of the scope that is not directly reflected from the object being viewed the better. Light from the side does not improve image quality.

One trick Lindy has mentioned in the past that I've done myself in fact is to paint the interior of the sunshade <span style="font-style: italic">flat</span> black to cut down on internal reflections. This is common when making telescopes to do this on internal surfaces that could reflect light. It may only help marginally, but it's cheap and can't hurt.

Last thing with a sunshade is it keeps bad weather off the front objective. I've shot in rain and snow and the sunshade helped keep the front clear.

As for an ARD. Never used one personally but I can't see it doing anything to improve the image (which is why I've never used one).
 
#15
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

In the testing that Ive done, I found that a 2" sunshade with ARD does the same thing as a 4" shade without ARD. Needless to say I went the 2" w/ARD route. And to be honest, I really havent noticed any reduction in brightness, but then again, I use a 58mm USO, maybe thats why.
 
#16
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

I bought an ARD and a sunshade for my Premier. I got a really good deal so I tricked it out for the price of the scope its self. I know I like the sunshades because I have one on my NXS and it seems to do a good job, but I will see how the ARD does when it comes in.

GG
 
#17
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the testing that Ive done, I found that a 2" sunshade with ARD does the same thing as a 4" shade without ARD.</div></div>

It's true that an ARD will provide the effectiveness of a sunshade in a shorter length, albeit with some reduction in light transmission.

How much effective length reduction you get depends on the construction of the ARD.

I prefer a sunshade because I don't care for the light reduction, and it doesn't matter much to me how long the sunshade is. So, I keep a 6" sunshade on my primary scope. YMMV.

 
#19
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

I think the open honeycomb of the USO style ARD actually improves depth perception. Unlike the tight honeycomb of the Tenebraex ARD's, I can't perceive a drop in brightness.

I have been shooting on overcast days when I thought to myself "self, you should take that ARD off and get some more brightness" only to find that the image quality (to me) was better with the ARD on.

To each his own, I just know what I've experienced. Maybe its that crappy USO glass that needs some rectifying from the ARD to be acceptable........
 
#20
Re: ARDs vs. Sunshades

The ARD may improve contrast vs. no ARD. It is doing what the sunshade is doing by not allowing in light from the sides. However it's also possible that the ARD could cause enough diffraction that it could degrade the image that way even though contrast is improved vs. a sunshade.

But this is all thinking from an astronomy perspective and how you want a telescope to perform. For instance I wouldn't drape a piece of screen netting over my telescope and think it would improve the image. But I can and do put a shroud on it.

However, when shooting a rifle the clarity of the scope image is rarely the limiting factor for me in taking a shot. I'm not trying to split a double star or resolve a magnitude 15 galaxy. I'm just trying to put the crosshairs on the target and hit it. Besides, my 16" telescope wouldn't even fit on my rifle.
smile.gif


So in the end, I doubt what you choose to have on the scope matters that much vs. just having a good quality scope with reliable and repeatable adjustments.
 
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