As stated, when you're buying pull downs are they really Sierra 175 MK's or another brand? I know the LC LR uses true MK's but I don't know about regular LC cartridges. Reason why I ask is I just measured 500 yesterday with a bullet comparator and the variance I got ranged from .650 - .690. I haven't weighed them yet.
- Thread starter Ultraman550
- Start date
It could depend on the quality of the retailer you are using, sellers do lie. when you say "I don't know about regular LC cartidges", your not implying you think anything but M118LR uses 175SMK's, are you? because the only ammo loaded with 175 MatchKings is M118LR/316mk0. everything else uses something else, always been that way.
even with that said you aren't thinking that SMK's are on the button regarding tolerances because they never have been, don't need to be, and will never be.
They still shoot very well, they met the spec put up by the military and it just shows how well mass produced ammo can shoot. This isn't benchrest or at least should be confused as such.
even with that said you aren't thinking that SMK's are on the button regarding tolerances because they never have been, don't need to be, and will never be.
They still shoot very well, they met the spec put up by the military and it just shows how well mass produced ammo can shoot. This isn't benchrest or at least should be confused as such.
No, I know LC LR uses HP SMK's , I was wondering if LC (non LR) used SMK's as well but apparently not? When you say "everything else uses something else" I sort of remember someone saying the bullets used are Speer. I was just wondering.
Lake City Ammunition Plant makes the bullets for M80 and all other issue ammo. LR was built to shoot better, they bought better bullets and a better powder but they still make the brass and assemble LR at Lake City. I am sure they could have made the bullets there but just chose to use Sierra's.
Lake City Army Ammunition Plant - Promotional Video - YouTube
Lake City Army Ammunition Plant - Promotional Video - YouTube
Nice!! Thank you for the info Xcount.
I have seen guys like 30x on accurate shooter seling the 173's as 175's. After my pleading with him to correct it he finally did. There are many out there that are only in it for the money and really don't know what they have. Buyer beware.
Much of the variance in the 175 pulls is due to the pinch put onto the bullet to yank it out of the cartridge case. This pinch screws up where the ogive is located. I loaded a bunch of pulls, and had variance of 50-60 thousandths to the ogive. It made getting decent loads absolute hell. I had to measured every round (out of about 860) and re-seat the bullets so I would at least have a consistent distance to the ogive.
I realize that this will shove the bullets into the case further, but the pressure spike caused by jamming a bullet 45 thou into the lands is greater than the pressure caused by having the bullet seated a wee bit deeper. The rounds now shoot pretty well (about 1 inch at 100 yards out of a TRG22), so they are decent enough for practice, or local matches.
I realize that this will shove the bullets into the case further, but the pressure spike caused by jamming a bullet 45 thou into the lands is greater than the pressure caused by having the bullet seated a wee bit deeper. The rounds now shoot pretty well (about 1 inch at 100 yards out of a TRG22), so they are decent enough for practice, or local matches.
-
I like the 175 pulls for one thing . The 175 smk pulls and with there jaw marks, They are good for getting a established load with your new Brass Chamber form-fired thru the 1st firing . I really don't get my true accuracy expectation up to high anyway till the 2nd time around when new Brass is form-fired & all Brass consistently neck-sized the same . No Need to waist perfectly good new bullets on the 1st time fire on new Brass .
.
I am surprised that this thread has drawn limited attention. Are there more members on this forum that could offer advice regarding the use of pull downs and their personal experience using pulldowns. I saw one source on Gunbroker.com that is selling 175 SMK pulldowns for $39/150. I agree that you don't need to use new bullets when honing your skills but according to poster Unknown, they could pose certain safety issues for an inexperienced reloader.
I just bought 600 of these from the Gunbroker retailer you reference. Should be here today or tomorrow. Will post an update once I have inspected, loaded and fired a few. I will be putting them in fire-formed LC/LR brass behind 41.8 gr 4064.
I've shot thousands of them there are no safety issues. They are usually mixed lots with pull marks on the bullets so don't expect precision accuracy.
39$ per 150 is too much. 20cents each would be my limit. Past that and I will look for bulk packs of hornadys or noslers.
Great for practice bullets and for use in the 300 blackout. About the cheapest bullet I can find for the 300
Much of the difference that you're seeing in the ogive could be from the bullets coming from different lots. While LC used to mix all lots together (they called it "compositing") for their M118 runs, they quit that and began loading in smaller batches, separating the bullets by lot for each batch. I seriously doubt that this concern for lot integrity continued into the break-down process that the "pulls" came from.
Kevin beat me to the punch on lot integrity. You can also look and find 175 major MFG "seconds" that I think are Sierras and shoot well enough for practice or better.
When LC was loading M852 (the 168 SMKs) and first started doing M118LR, they actually mixed bullets of different lots for certification before acceptance. They also loaded them the same way; no regard to keeping them separated, as this was considered to be just too troublesome at that time. As they started working on, refining and improving the product, they began keeping lots separate, and loading them separately, keeping the same lots of bullets together throughout the run, and not intermixing them.
Ironically, in all the certifications I fired over the years, I don't recall a single one failing to meet the accuracy standards set by LC, even when we had to "composite" the bullets prior to loading and shooting them. Still, with the ogive variations that have been noted here, I'm willing to bet that's exactly what you're seeing; mixed lots.
Ironically, in all the certifications I fired over the years, I don't recall a single one failing to meet the accuracy standards set by LC, even when we had to "composite" the bullets prior to loading and shooting them. Still, with the ogive variations that have been noted here, I'm willing to bet that's exactly what you're seeing; mixed lots.
When this thread started (1/14) there were loads of "pulled" 175 smk's around some were air pulled,most were machine pulled.Their issue was mainly distortion from the collet when being pulled. Very consistent depending on how hard the got pinched.
After they dried up there were 3+- big lots of "blems", "seconds", or "overruns".These all needed to be sorted base to ogive. They were good on weight.
After they dried up there were 3+- big lots of "blems", "seconds", or "overruns".These all needed to be sorted base to ogive. They were good on weight.
rpk762,
Negative, Sierra makes a 150 FMJBT similar to the M80 Ball round, but it's not the one that LCAAP uses in their ammo. They have exactly one press on which they can run the 150 FMJ, and there's no way it could even remotely keep up with LCAAPs peacetime demands, much less what we're going through dealing with the Jihadis these days. Similar, but not the same. LCAAP makes virtually all their own FMJs, both 5.56 and 7.62, right there, on site. Even the old M118/M72 173 grain Match bullet, which I've seen repeatedly (and even recently) listed as a "Sierra bullet" wasn't; it was the product of LCAAP, and not an OEM product made elsewhere.
Negative, Sierra makes a 150 FMJBT similar to the M80 Ball round, but it's not the one that LCAAP uses in their ammo. They have exactly one press on which they can run the 150 FMJ, and there's no way it could even remotely keep up with LCAAPs peacetime demands, much less what we're going through dealing with the Jihadis these days. Similar, but not the same. LCAAP makes virtually all their own FMJs, both 5.56 and 7.62, right there, on site. Even the old M118/M72 173 grain Match bullet, which I've seen repeatedly (and even recently) listed as a "Sierra bullet" wasn't; it was the product of LCAAP, and not an OEM product made elsewhere.
Here are the pull down's I just got off Gunbroker. Minor pull marks but other than that, appear GTG. Paid $155 for 600 of them ($39/150) shipping included. Loaded up about 20 to chrono a new load this coming Sunday. Will reported back after..
