Are Berger too conservative with their reloading data?

[Canuck1977]

Hi all,

need to figure why there are some major differences between what I see in the reloading depot section and Berger's reloading manual. Example: I went through the entire 308win section to see what people are using for their Berger 185gr Juggs bullets. Most of you seem to find a good accuracy node at around 43.5gr of Varget. The Berger manual state that the max power charge with the varget and 185gr Juggs is 41.6gr. Why so much difference? Too conservative?

 

[Devildog]

I've found that to be true with all my reloading manuals. My guess is it's about liability so they post low numbers to keep everyone safe. I start low and work my way up. Keep an eye out for pressure signs and you be fine,

 

[Nachtwolf]

Yeah agreed. They aren't going to assume you have a quality rifle with quality brass etc and that you're doing everything right. Loads also vary a lot between manufacturers. Also keep in mind that a lot of guys are loading longer than what's listed in the manuals. Longer means a larger combustion chamber which in turn lowers pressure and thus allows for more powder. But be careful not to load too long and jam into the lands which can cause dangerous overpressure...

 

[Milo 2.5]

Some of their stuff concerning charge weights is pretty close, but the velocities generated by it is off. Now they have given out some data for the 300 Norma mag that verges on dangerous.
Who knows in todays world why manuals are even made, more confusion created than useful info.
IMO everything should be like Quickload programs, useful info given, you pick how prudent or ignorant you want to be.

 

[shoot4fun]

When those manuals are written the test data was developed by specific lots of powder, brass and primer. Those things are not constants. Some lots build different pressure (more/less).
Unless you have the means to own a true pressure testing setup then you're basically left to "read the tea leaves" for a sign. You judge pressure by ejector marks, primer flow, etc but those "signs" don't prove anything. I've ruined Lapua brass primer pockets in one firing that otherwise showed no "usual" sign of over-pressure.
I was once told by a tech support person at one of the powder companies that their data was 92% of max pressure (on average) for the max listed powder charge. It sounds like a lot of room to experiment with heavier loads but that 8% ca go away with the blink of an eye. Powder lot differences or primer substitution can take that away in a flash (pun intended).

 

[TheGerman]

The only reloading data I have ever seen that wasn't some shit, lawyer written garbage is from Alliant and from European manuals. I'm sure there's something else somewhere but I don't remember it/haven't seen in.

Go take a look in the 6.5CM reloading thread. 99% of the loads people are shooting on a daily basis are 10-20% over what is listed as max in most manuals.

 

[Semperriddle]

They all are work up in small increments!

 

[Supersubes]

The manuals are great for general comparisons and figuring starting charges. They're working towards saami and cip pressure maximums, with highly specialized gear, so the data is good. I appreciate that hodgdon actually lists the min/max pressures they observed as well. Not all of them do that.

 

[Canuck1977]

I did an OCW test yesterday with the 185gr Juggs with Varget and got 2515 FPS average loaded to 2,255" COBL, 42.7gr of powder. Did get some 0.4 MOA groups, really like the Juggs. No pressure signs at all! Will push it a little next week. Would like to get 2600 FPS with my load.

Thanks to all for commenting!

Cheers