Rifle Scopes Are S&B really that good

[Aries64]

Re: Are S&B really that good

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F reticle will work well also in the S&B 5-25. </div></div>
Good point Rob.

<span style="font-weight: bold">tjohnh2001</span>,

As <span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span> pointed-out, the P4F also works very well in the PMII 5-25X. The P4F isn't quite as fine as the Gen 2 XR, but it is excellent for shooting small targets at long range. And since the P4F is a Schmidt Bender reticle, PMII 5-25Xs' with the P4F are easy to find.

As a matter of fact, right now <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">akrapovic</span></span> is selling a PMII 5-25X with P4F reticle in his <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">WTS-S&B 5-25 mil/mil P4F new</span></span> thread.

Keith

 

[tjonh2001]

Re: Are S&B really that good

my wife would kill me if i bought another scope this year let alone this week. i spent over 6000 this week on scopes im going to have to wait awhile unless i trade my tubegun for a moa p4f.

 

[hiddenmongoose]

Re: Are S&B really that good

i own 2 s&b and love them , i wouldnt change or swap them for anything. the ''you get what you pay for'' rule applies strongly with scopes.what you get with s&b is top rate quality IMHO

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Are S&B really that good

Thumbs Up for S&B!!!

With the price of scopes rapidly creeping up to the 3K mark minds well go with the S&B and be happy!!

 

[buckey]

Re: Are S&B really that good

Simply - YES!!!

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Are S&B really that good

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tjonh2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im going to look for a 5x25 for my f class rifle. </div></div>
If your going to be shooting F-Class with a PMII 5-25X you'll definitely want to look into (pun intended) a Gen 2 XR-equipped one. Mirage notwithstanding, the fine lines will allow you to easily quarter the X-ring at 1,000 yards.

Unfortunately, and as you may know PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XRs' have become sort of scarce and command a premium these days. However, if you can get ahold of one you will not disappointed. Checking the FS threads here frequently is the best way to find one.

Keith </div></div>

I just came back from a tour of the USOptics shop (very impressive and very helpful, knowledgeable guys). I had a chance to look at the new RDP-MIL reticle through a scope and it is great. At the .5mil mark around the crosshairs the lines are .07MOA. Very, very fine. But the rest is .1mil (I think from memory). It's the best of both worlds really. You get the precise crosshairs for itty bitty groups and you get the thickness you need for ranging, hold-offs/overs etc. The hold over goes down to 15MILS. What is not there is the Xmas tree and the MILS are marked every 5 mils (with numbers, the rest are half and whole mil hashmarks).

OT -
Looking through the glass, to me, it was crystal clear as well. I focused on a hillside 5 miles away, in 71degrees and could still make out fine details despite mirage at 22X. The eye relief was generous but best of all, it was consistent throughout the range of magnification to within .125 of an inch. A very impressive scope. I also got to play with a scope with their new 'Milestone' clicks in the EREK knob - very solid, noticeable clicks but with no 'skipping' between marks.

Each scope is hand made, it's put together by mostly one guy and so he's the one who answers for any faults. Kind of ensures a high level of QC.

However, there is always trouble in paradise.... $3K and a 16week minimum wait. But, I'd say once you get it, you'll probably never need to send it back for anything.

 

[vinconco]

Re: Are S&B really that good

Does anybody have any info on where to find the new S&B 5 x 25 PM11? Here is a video from Shot. New S&B 5 x 25mm PM11

 

[Rob01]

Re: Are S&B really that good

Not supposed to be out for a few months.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Are S&B really that good

That was a bad ass scope!!! I really liked the new knobs and features.

 

[Xycod]

Re: Are S&B really that good

Money no object, why not a SB, worth 3500, IMO hell no, damn good scope though, gotta bunch, one of my fav scopes, zeiss/Hsoldt guy myself. All have good glass so don't get caught up in that, SB is very consistant though. My fav SBs in pm2s are the 3x12 and 5x25 although the 5x25 sucks on 5x up to about 8x, beyond that it shines. If your hunting I like the classics better than the pm2s and zeiss and swaro better than all. JMO and good luck, no way you can go wrong with any of these.

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Are S&B really that good

I have 2 5-25 and love them. Had one on the pof 308 and then bought a dta from a member here on the hide. Couldnt bring myself to take the one off of the 308, so bought another one for the dta. Having two custom m1a done in sage stocks one for the safe the other to shoot, it will be dressed in a NF 2.5-10 solid scope but not an S&B. I sure am glad they make different flavors of ramon noodles cause I am a broke dick mofo. No matter what you buy, just remember to enjoy the sport and have fun shooting!!

 

[sickeness]

Re: Are S&B really that good

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tjonh2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im going to look for a 5x25 for my f class rifle. </div></div>
If your going to be shooting F-Class with a PMII 5-25X you'll definitely want to look into (pun intended) a Gen 2 XR-equipped one. Mirage notwithstanding, the fine lines will allow you to easily quarter the X-ring at 1,000 yards.

Unfortunately, and as you may know PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XRs' have become sort of scarce and command a premium these days. However, if you can get ahold of one you will not disappointed. Checking the FS threads here frequently is the best way to find one.

Keith </div></div>

I just came back from a tour of the USOptics shop (very impressive and very helpful, knowledgeable guys). I had a chance to look at the new RDP-MIL reticle through a scope and it is great. At the .5mil mark around the crosshairs the lines are .07MOA. Very, very fine. But the rest is .1mil (I think from memory). It's the best of both worlds really. You get the precise crosshairs for itty bitty groups and you get the thickness you need for ranging, hold-offs/overs etc. The hold over goes down to 15MILS. What is not there is the Xmas tree and the MILS are marked every 5 mils (with numbers, the rest are half and whole mil hashmarks).

OT -
Looking through the glass, to me, it was crystal clear as well. I focused on a hillside 5 miles away, in 71degrees and could still make out fine details despite mirage at 22X. The eye relief was generous but best of all, it was consistent throughout the range of magnification to within .125 of an inch. A very impressive scope. I also got to play with a scope with their new 'Milestone' clicks in the EREK knob - very solid, noticeable clicks but with no 'skipping' between marks.

Each scope is hand made, it's put together by mostly one guy and so he's the one who answers for any faults. Kind of ensures a high level of QC.

However, there is always trouble in paradise.... $3K and a 16week minimum wait. But, I'd say once you get it, you'll probably never need to send it back for anything.
</div></div>

I'm a bit curious what this really has to do with S&B?
I've been to the USO shop before and while they are great guys, I definitely think S&B is in a whole other league.

I have had multiple USO scopes and many of them had to go back for QC issues that took around 2 months each to fix (so much for high level of one man QC). Once they were fixed, they were fine, but it shouldn't be my job as the consumer to find problems that need to be fixed. I have never received a Schmidt that didn't work out of the box.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Are S&B really that good

I had all but bought a Premier 3-15 XR, but this thread gave me pause. I didn't know you could get a S&B for that price at Mile High, but is that a stripper model that as a Newbie I don't see the compromises that I'd regret later? Just a couple of questions.

It is described as a single turn, but the MH description says " Just one turn of the knob provides 28 minutes of elevation. A window within the dial then changes to yellow, and one additional turn provides an additional 28 minutes of adjustment. The entire 56-minute adjustment range can be covered in just two turns of the elevation knob." - That sounds like there is more than one turn?
-With out starting a war, why do some people think that the 4-16 is different than the 3-12 and 5-25 scopes?
-I assume the S&B is a CW version? And I thought the reticle was the p4f?

Looking for a scope that will eventually go on a .308 bolt rifle, but will go on a AR SPR for right now. Actually buying glass before the gun.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Are S&B really that good

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had all but bought a Premier 3-15 XR, but this thread gave me pause. I didn't know you could get a S&B for that price at Mile High, but is that a stripper model that as a Newbie I don't see the compromises that I'd regret later? Just a couple of questions.</div></div>
I don't know that anything you've read in this thread should make you apprehensive about buying either a 3-15X or 5-25X Premier scope, but that is your perogative. I had a 5-25X Gen 2 XR 27 MIL MTC and it was a great scope with awesome glass and truly innovative features at a great price. I just found that I prefer the PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR.

As far as Mile High's pricing, you need to be more specific about what model you are talking about. Are you talking about scopes Mile High has posted about on the Sniper's Hide or the 4-16X 50s' listed on their web site? The S & Bs' that Mile High has listed on their web site right now, the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 4-16X 50 DT LP 1/4 MOA adjustment</span></span> and the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 4-16X 50 ST LP CM adjustment</span></span> are full-boat PMII models with illumination. "LP" designates an illuminated model, "DT" stands for "Double Turn", and "ST" stands for Single Turn".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is described as a single turn, but the MH description says " Just one turn of the knob provides 28 minutes of elevation. A window within the dial then changes to yellow, and one additional turn provides an additional 28 minutes of adjustment. The entire 56-minute adjustment range can be covered in just two turns of the elevation knob." - That sounds like there is more than one turn?</div></div>
The description above applies to the 1/4 MOA adjustment version which has 56 MOA of adjustment. There are 28 MOA in each turn of the DT (Double Turn) turret, so two full revolutions of the turret will give you 56 MOA. The 1/4 MOA version uses a Double Turn turret because there isn't enough room for 56 MOA within a single turn knob in 1/4 MOA increments.

The CM (.01 MIL) version only comes in a ST (Single Turn) because all 13 MILs' of travel can be reached in a single turn of the turret and the 4-16X erector mechanism cannot accomodate a second turn of CM adjustments.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-With out starting a war, why do some people think that the 4-16 is different than the 3-12 and 5-25 scopes?</div></div>
Not sure what you mean by this - what is it that makes the 4-16X, 3-12X, and 5-25X the same to you?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-I assume the S&B is a CW version? And I thought the reticle was the p4f?

Looking for a scope that will eventually go on a .308 bolt rifle, but will go on a AR SPR for right now. Actually buying glass before the gun.
</div></div>
Most S & Bs' are CW, as CW is the default on European scopes. However, I thought I saw a recently thread where Mile High was selling PMII 4-16X 50 P4F CCWs'.

Keith

 

[IsleofGough]

Re: Are S&B really that good

http://demigodllc.com/articles/optics-for-long-range-rifle-shooting-2009-update/?p=7 is a good update of several high end scopes. There is not much new in that article, but in the end, the author picked S&B for 3 out of 4 of his rifles. It is just one opinion, but I think S&B has one of the best, if not the best balance of optics, reticles, and ruggedness out there.