Athlon Cronus 4.5x29x56mm vs SWFA HD 5x20x50mm . I have the SWFA now and love it,is the glass in the Athlon Cronus the same or better ?
Rifle Scopes Athlon Cronus 4.5x29x56mm vs SWFA HD 5x20x50mm
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The Cronus's glass is almost as good as the Vortex Razor Gen 2? It's worth the price of admission.
Be careful to read too much into same factory concept.
Factories build stuff to specifications and coming out of same factory does not in any way guarantee all scopes or glass being produced, or used as parts in their assembly, are of equal quality.
In fact, most build to order manufacturers produce a range of products in varying levels of quality. Each built to differing customer specifications.
Factories build stuff to specifications and coming out of same factory does not in any way guarantee all scopes or glass being produced, or used as parts in their assembly, are of equal quality.
In fact, most build to order manufacturers produce a range of products in varying levels of quality. Each built to differing customer specifications.
I just picked up a Cronus BTR. I have to say the glass is a bit better than the Bushnell G2DMR it replaced.
locked&loaded;n6293847 said:
locked&loaded, I am pretty impressed with the glass quality on my Cronus BTR as well! Heads and shoulders over the Burris 5-25 XTR II it replaced. Way better optically!
Will get to test the mechanicals of the Cronus in a few days and will update the thread with results. If the turrets do as well as the Burris, the Cronus will be an excellent upgrade.
glass is usually subjective, but the Cronus glass is nowhere near a gen2 razor. but pretty close to the gen 1, and the gen1 and SShd are real close. if you're willing to take a shot on Athlon, a used cronus would be pretty good value. other than that, i'd get a used gen 1 razor.
Glass subjective, I guess so, because having used both I thought the G1 Razor was closer to the old Nightforce NXS line and nowhere near The Cronus which is up there with the best, like March and S&B IMO.
Edit, To further comment I would compare the glass in HDMR's, had three, with the Razor G1 I compared with at the same time, and the SWFA 5-20 that I looked through, as all very close. I kept the HDMR's and sold the RZ1 and NF F1 mostly because I wanted the H59 reticle. I had fantastic luck with all the HDMR's, not one failure for all the years I owned them.
I noticed the parallax knob was very hard to turn on the SWFA 5-20 which for me was a deciding factor for not purchasing one.
Edit, To further comment I would compare the glass in HDMR's, had three, with the Razor G1 I compared with at the same time, and the SWFA 5-20 that I looked through, as all very close. I kept the HDMR's and sold the RZ1 and NF F1 mostly because I wanted the H59 reticle. I had fantastic luck with all the HDMR's, not one failure for all the years I owned them.
I noticed the parallax knob was very hard to turn on the SWFA 5-20 which for me was a deciding factor for not purchasing one.
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I have a Burris XTR II, Cronus, and SWFA SS. Guess I just got a good one but the SS has the clearest glass I've ever looked through and has been used like a hammer by 3 different owners and still tracks like it's on rails. The Cronus is better than the XTR by a wide margin and is clearer than several gen 1 razors I've looked through. However, my first Cronus quite tracking and had to be shipped back and their CS was great. So far so good with the second one.... but if it shits out I will not be getting a replacement. Personally I laugh at all the glass whores on here. How fucking clear does something need to be to make a hit on a target. I compared a Cronus to a Kahles gen 3, actually used both in a match and compared afterword side by side. The Kahles was slightly better but not by enough to make a difference. The glass was more than good enough on both to not cost me points because I couldn't see what I was aiming at. I'd rather have a scope with GOOD ENOUGH glass and rock solid tracking day in and day out, every damn day that I never had to worry about taking a shit on me when I just spent $$$$$$ going to a match or expensive hunt 10 states away. If they would put a decent reticle in the SWFA similar the skmr3 or mr4 from Minox I would sell every scope I have and own nothing but them.
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How about a comparison between the Weaver Tactical 6x30x56MM and the Cronus ? We haven't heard anything for those weaver scope owners in a while .
They are all very similar glass wise what you should be looking at are 1) features 2) price 3) reputation.
FWIW I generally stick with bushnell because of price, their DMR/LRHS/Elite etc scopes are fantastic for the money.
FWIW I generally stick with bushnell because of price, their DMR/LRHS/Elite etc scopes are fantastic for the money.
These days with the quality of manufacturing we have achieved, along with a very competitive market, there are multitudes of scopes with good enough glass for anything anyone is trying to do with them. I could name a half dozen off the top of my head in the $900 to $1500 price range that a person could compete with and never worry about dropping a shot or failing to spot a miss. I think there are even a few $500 scopes out there a person could do just fine with.
Good enough glass for the task at hand isn't really an issue these days. It's all about how much someone wants to spend and how nice they want the glass to be moreso than how much they need to spend to get glass sufficient for the task.
My experience is the opposite, the Cronus glass being better than the GII Razor.
And my experience is the opposite to yours. I would never put an Athlon glass nearly as half of the quality of my Razor AMG. I will say it's a little bit better than my PST.
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Do you actually own a Cronus or are you just guessing?
You sound like a friend of mine who is jaded against Athlon scopes because 6x47Steve shilled for them when SH was hosted on Scout.
I replaced a Gen II 4.5-27 with a Cronus 4.5-29.
The glass in my scopes were very close with the Athlon controlling CA better.
A Viper PST is not even in the same league as the Cronus.
Or maybe he's thinking of one of the lesser line of Athlon scopes???
Guys, all I've been is honest in all my reviews and I mean it. There exists bias and truthfulness in the same plain.
I would suggest you to read my post again. I never commented about any scope's league. I said the Athlon has a little bit better glass than the PST .
If I weren't be behind of an Athlon I wouldn't said what I said. In my eyes, the glass of my AMG is twice better than the Athlon.
Now talking about leagues, the Athlon IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE VORTEX RAZOR AMG, PERIOD!
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I second that Cronus glass is better than Razor GenII. Resolution, Contrast about same, but CA is better managed in Cronus and better eye box. What I dont like Cronus is the stiff parallax, could be to my specific example, but that's all I see. I think Razor II has better mechanics, and that's super important in a scope. So if I'm going to a match, I'll still prefer razor, but if I only sit at bench and punch paper, I'll do Cronus without second thought.
Judging a scope by looking through other people's scope at range is dangerous, unless you get to play all settings (eye piece, parallax etc) to match your eyes for extended period of time.
Judging a scope by looking through other people's scope at range is dangerous, unless you get to play all settings (eye piece, parallax etc) to match your eyes for extended period of time.
yea people, id give up on the glass...steve says he compared the hdmr's, gen 1 razor, and 5-20hd and found them all similar...i have no reason to believe hes lying, but in my experience ive never seen a bushy hdmr/ers/xrs have glass that was impressive when compared next to a gen 1 razor or a 5-20hd...i dont think hes a liar, i just think eyes see stuff differently...ive owned like 4 bushys (hdmr, ers, xrs) and im on my 2nd 5-20hd (had one and sold it to a buddy, i regretted selling it and went and bought another)...every time i looked thru the bushys for a while i regretted buying them and sold them off...other people love the bushy's though so we cant all be seeing the same things
to the OP...ive never looked thru a cronus, but the 5-20hd is one of my favorite scopes ever for the value...can get a used one for like $900...turrets easy to reset, nice clicks, i like the retile better than a standard mil dot, but it does leave a lot to be desired...id much prefer the reticle in the cronus, it has a zero stop i believe, and ive heard the illum is well executed...the illum in the swfa sucks terribly and seems cheap, but it does light up at least lol
to the OP...ive never looked thru a cronus, but the 5-20hd is one of my favorite scopes ever for the value...can get a used one for like $900...turrets easy to reset, nice clicks, i like the retile better than a standard mil dot, but it does leave a lot to be desired...id much prefer the reticle in the cronus, it has a zero stop i believe, and ive heard the illum is well executed...the illum in the swfa sucks terribly and seems cheap, but it does light up at least lol
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The only thing wrong with SWFA reticle is most people don't take the time to learn how to use it. And all this talk about glass is pure bullshit. This isn't the Audubon Society. The SWFA is a proven 3/4 ton truck. Athlon, like SWFA, contract out their scope design. It is just a badge. Clearidge was probably one of the first that I know of. At the very least Athlon is making an effort to stay current.
it doesnt have any hold tree or numbers...thats a problem when needing to go fast with holds or hit small targets at distance with wind...for very basic shooting, it is just fine and i like it
I agree fully with the comments made on how subjective opinions on glass quality usually are - if my eyes were as good as they were 30yrs ago, I'd probably have a harder time agreeing wtih the comments, but at 65, I'm 'seeing' the truth in the statements. I have three Kahles K624i AMR scopes (one Gen 2, two Gen 3s), one Bushnell 3.5-21x50 ERS, two Weaver 6-30x56, and three Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56. The Bushy & Weavers have far more CA than either the Kahles or Cronus, and at least in my opinion, the Kahles & Cronus both handle mirage better than the Bushy or Weaver. Is that a side benefit of having less CA? Maybe - I'm not an optical engineer so can't say. But in several sessions of shooting rifles with both Kahles & Cronus scopes at 600yds, I'm thinking the optical quality of both is very similar when they're set to the same magnification.
I like the turrets & reticle of the Kahles better, and I'd like to think that the optical quality is better than that of the Cronus, because I paid way more for the Kahles than I did for the Cronus scopes. I dunno - haven't shot the Cronus scopes nearly as much as I have the Kahles, so durability is still an unknown for me. But if all three of the Cronus scopes hold up as well as the six Kahles scopes I've owned have, I'll have a hard time finding many negative comments about them.
I like the turrets & reticle of the Kahles better, and I'd like to think that the optical quality is better than that of the Cronus, because I paid way more for the Kahles than I did for the Cronus scopes. I dunno - haven't shot the Cronus scopes nearly as much as I have the Kahles, so durability is still an unknown for me. But if all three of the Cronus scopes hold up as well as the six Kahles scopes I've owned have, I'll have a hard time finding many negative comments about them.
I think that is an accurate assessment. While keeping it simple. I think you could move the Vortex AMG to the top. With the new Vortex PST 2 just below the Gen 1 razor. Just a guess. Since it's not on the market yet?
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it really depends. Gen2 pst is still made in Phillipines and the HDMR being Japan itll be hard to best unless the Phillipines really stepped up their optic game. I wouldnt say AMG should be at the top. The gen2 Razor imo still has a better zoom range. It is heavier but that doesnt bother me much since i dont take this one hunting.
From what I was told by a Vortex rep is that the only real difference between the Razor gen2 and AMG is weight, color and USA made.
I own or have owned a lot of the scopes being talked about. Gen 1 Razor, Gen2 Razor, Gen 3 K24, Steiner M and T Series (I'm absolutely loving my new T-series despite reports I've read here), and most recently I picked up a Cronus.
I've been using the Cronus a lot over the past several months. Lot's of practice, and 2 matches now. If it can last the season without failure it will be one of my favorite scopes.
I'm no "pro", but I'm just as demanding, and probably more abusive. If it is going to fail, it will happen on my rifle.
I've got a mil version. Tracked perfect out of the box up to 15mils (ran out of room on my tracking target), right and left 5.
The glass in the Cronus is much, much better than a Gen 1 Razor IMO. It really does hang with some much more expensive glass. I'm not going to say it's "better" than the more expensive options, but it is in the same league, easily.
My only problem with the Cronus is just that I still don't trust it to hold up. This season will tell me a lot. So far so good.
I'd really like to run the Cronus. The size, weight, and specs are just perfect for what I want. Crossing my fingers.
I've been using the Cronus a lot over the past several months. Lot's of practice, and 2 matches now. If it can last the season without failure it will be one of my favorite scopes.
I'm no "pro", but I'm just as demanding, and probably more abusive. If it is going to fail, it will happen on my rifle.
I've got a mil version. Tracked perfect out of the box up to 15mils (ran out of room on my tracking target), right and left 5.
The glass in the Cronus is much, much better than a Gen 1 Razor IMO. It really does hang with some much more expensive glass. I'm not going to say it's "better" than the more expensive options, but it is in the same league, easily.
My only problem with the Cronus is just that I still don't trust it to hold up. This season will tell me a lot. So far so good.
I'd really like to run the Cronus. The size, weight, and specs are just perfect for what I want. Crossing my fingers.
I wish people would stop making assumptions about what quality "glass" should be. Glass glass glass, what about adjustment accuracy, parallax, reticle, eye box, durability? I understand the OP wasn't concerned with those things. Everyone else has turned this into a pissing contest of "my glass is better than athlon." or "athlon is better than your glass." if you haven't gotten behind two scopes at the same time in the same conditions, it's impossible to be accurate with a judgement. i own a few of the scopes mentioned in these posts and i can't give you a definitive answer as to which i preferred optically because glass looks different in all conditions. anyway, just my $.2 even though no one asked. 
I needed a new scope but just couldn't spend the money on the Athlon without seeing how they will stand up. If they start to fail after a couple of seasons then they're going to be tough to sell used. If they prove to be durable then sounds like they'll be a great value.
My opinion on glass quality for shooting steel is it's not terribly important UNLESS you can't see your target. I had a ERS that was a great scope but I had a hard time seeing small steel that had the paint shot off of it. Love the G2 reticle and it tracked but didn't care for the glass or turrets.
My opinion on glass quality for shooting steel is it's not terribly important UNLESS you can't see your target. I had a ERS that was a great scope but I had a hard time seeing small steel that had the paint shot off of it. Love the G2 reticle and it tracked but didn't care for the glass or turrets.
I wish people would stop making assumptions about what quality "glass" should be. Glass glass glass, what about adjustment accuracy, parallax, reticle, eye box, durability? I understand the OP wasn't concerned with those things. Everyone else has turned this into a pissing contest of "my glass is better than athlon." or "athlon is better than your glass." if you haven't gotten behind two scopes at the same time in the same conditions, it's impossible to be accurate with a judgement. i own a few of the scopes mentioned in these posts and i can't give you a definitive answer as to which i preferred optically because glass looks different in all conditions. anyway, just my $.2 even though no one asked.
glass quality is forever gonna be more of opinion than fact, because getting a hold of several samples of each $1500+ optic would be an expensive endevour. but it would seem most people perusing this site these days, are more than willing to recommend an optic or other gear that they've never used or seen for that matter. i would hazard a guess that only about half of the people using the "Hide" these days actually shoot more than a few times a year.
some of us get the opportunity to get behind different optics in the same conditions, that's as close to an apples to apples that anyone will get. the OP asked about the cronus vs the SS hd, i've been behind both within a couple minutes, on the same lane. to my eyes and the owner of the cronus, they were equal, couldn't tell a nickles difference in the glass. other aspects were different though. these threads will always spiral into a discussion, bringing other choices into the fray, mainly because people want their opinions heard, and sometimes, to keep others from making an expensive mistake.
you seem to be getting assed up that the other aspects weren't brought into discussion, simple answer is at this price point the only difference should be glass quality if any. nobody really knows how durable the athlon scopes are because they've only been out for a year or so. we've had a gen1 razor on a mk13 for 6 years, i've had an SShd on my 300 for 5 years. athlon needs to be in the game for a while before they get a durability reputation, and even then, anything man made will fail.
all i was doing was stating an opinion in an opinionated discussion. i didn't get "assed up". glass quality isnt the only thing. look at all the scopes that go back for bad tracking and other issues. gen1's had the bombproof reputation within a year of coming out because people abused them to see what they could handle. the cronus is not too different. there are a few guys trying to break them who havent. again, just my opinions coming out.
He must be taliking about the PST gen ii. The PTS is comparable to the Argos BTR.
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Well I looked through an AMG the other day and compared to my Minox ZP5s it was like looking through the crusty old magnifying glass in my 7th grade science class.
OP, it's been awhile since I've used and owned a SWFA 5-20x. Main things I didn't like about it were the extremely stiff parallax ring and the reticle. Glass clarity (fwiw) was unremarkable, meaning it must have been good, but nothing to keep me awake at night reminiscing about it.
I have been using a Cronus hard for over a year now and recently got a Cronus BTR. Mechanically and feature-wise, they are better scopes imho, than the SWFA. Optically I won't put up a comparison here because that would be disingenuous at best. I had a Gen-1 Razor for 5 years in between. I loved that scope, had to send it back for a tracking problem, and wasn't crazy about the reticle, but it worked.
When the opportunity came to try Athlon I did so and have become a fan. I've also run an xrs 4-30x for a bit and just didn't like it at all...even with the H59 reticle. Even had a Steiner M-class for a bit that had to go back with a binding elevation turret.
I can't afford $2,500-$3,000+ optics so I have been pleasantly surprised and pleased with my two Cronus optics so far. I shoot PRS quite a bit and while I haven't won a match with them, I have been a stage winner at the last two matches...these optics have not held me back!
For the cost, they are hard to beat. Good luck!
I have been using a Cronus hard for over a year now and recently got a Cronus BTR. Mechanically and feature-wise, they are better scopes imho, than the SWFA. Optically I won't put up a comparison here because that would be disingenuous at best. I had a Gen-1 Razor for 5 years in between. I loved that scope, had to send it back for a tracking problem, and wasn't crazy about the reticle, but it worked.
When the opportunity came to try Athlon I did so and have become a fan. I've also run an xrs 4-30x for a bit and just didn't like it at all...even with the H59 reticle. Even had a Steiner M-class for a bit that had to go back with a binding elevation turret.
I can't afford $2,500-$3,000+ optics so I have been pleasantly surprised and pleased with my two Cronus optics so far. I shoot PRS quite a bit and while I haven't won a match with them, I have been a stage winner at the last two matches...these optics have not held me back!
For the cost, they are hard to beat. Good luck!
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I think many would disagree with this statement
Well he did say it over a year ago.
I have an SWFA and Cronus in my possession right now. IMHO, the Cronus beats the SWFA by a bit, but not a ton. Only speaking of glass and the scopes mentioned here, my take is XTR2<PST2<RazorG1=SWFAHD<Cronus
I’ve owned two of each, both at the same time. Still have one of the SWFAs.
Something not mentioned here is the eye box on the Cronus sucks over 20x. I mean it’s pretty much useless. The SWFA only goes to 20x but the eye box is very good through the range.
The glass between them is a wash. Take reticles out of the equation and you wouldn’t tell a difference. All that being said, both of them are a significant step up from any of the Bushnell Elite Tactical scopes.
Something not mentioned here is the eye box on the Cronus sucks over 20x. I mean it’s pretty much useless. The SWFA only goes to 20x but the eye box is very good through the range.
The glass between them is a wash. Take reticles out of the equation and you wouldn’t tell a difference. All that being said, both of them are a significant step up from any of the Bushnell Elite Tactical scopes.
I actually felt the Cronus eyebox was pretty forgiving for a medium-cost/high-mag scope. I shot all afternoon yesterday pegged at 29x, and I could stay on the scope and see splashes out to 800 yards.
The SWFA eyebox is also pretty forgiving though, so I'll agree with you there. And I agree that both are better than the Bushnell ET scopes that I've looked at. I have 100% confidence in my SWFA tracking, but I don't have enough time working with the Cronus to fully trust it yet. And I was running a new load, so I couldn't really test tracking appropriately, but it did return to zero and drop another round right back on top of the first.
I have no issues either getting behind my Cronus BTR and most of the time I am also shooting it at 29X. Resolution, color, and general image details on mine is excellent and the only drawback for me at 29X is a slightly noticeable darkening of the sight picture near the top end of the magnification range.
Very pleased with the quality and value I got from Athlon for the $$$s I've got in it!
Very pleased with the quality and value I got from Athlon for the $$$s I've got in it!
Keep in mind there will be sample variation even within the same model.
I've owned 3 SWFAs and one of them had significantly worse glass than the others.
I've spent a good amount of time behind 3 DMRIIs and one of them is significantly better than the others. An older ERS falls right between them.
I've only looked through one Cronus but I wouldn't be surprised if there was variation there too.
I've owned 3 SWFAs and one of them had significantly worse glass than the others.
I've spent a good amount of time behind 3 DMRIIs and one of them is significantly better than the others. An older ERS falls right between them.
I've only looked through one Cronus but I wouldn't be surprised if there was variation there too.
I have a gen II razor and a Cronus. The Cronus is a nice scope but not in the same league as my Gen II Razor by any means.
Thats what my eyeballs thought too. The only bushnell failures I have encountered so far have been abuse or ERS zero stops. My Lrhs's see a lot of use and abuse. I thought the Ares was a lot closer to the gen 1 razor/HDMR/ than the Cronus.
The parallax on the SWFA 5-20 is definitely very stiff. I’ve owned two (and still own one), and on both the parallax is an absolute pain to use. But just put the Aadland Parallax Gripper and the issue is solved
https://swfa.com/aadland-parallax-gripper.html
I also see some of you guys comparing this to the Kahles. I do own a Kahles Gen3 6-24. Come one guys…The Kahles is in a different league. The eye box, the glass, the reticule clarity, the turret…pretty much everything is by far, and noticeably better. The only thing I like better on the SWFA is that it can focus down to 35 Yards. I’m actually planning to use the SWFA 5-20 on a QD mount and change it between my 223 bolt, AR varmint 223 and Kidd supergrade 22LR.
https://swfa.com/aadland-parallax-gripper.html
I also see some of you guys comparing this to the Kahles. I do own a Kahles Gen3 6-24. Come one guys…The Kahles is in a different league. The eye box, the glass, the reticule clarity, the turret…pretty much everything is by far, and noticeably better. The only thing I like better on the SWFA is that it can focus down to 35 Yards. I’m actually planning to use the SWFA 5-20 on a QD mount and change it between my 223 bolt, AR varmint 223 and Kidd supergrade 22LR.
I’ve had some experience with both scopes. Here’s my summary:
SWFA & Razor Gen 1
SWFA glass is maybe a touch better.
Razor has better reticle and better feeling turrets.
Cronus BTR & Razor Gen2
I’d put glass and eye box dead even.
Reticles are close, pick the one you like more.
Turret feels goes to the Razor.
Weight goes to the Cronus
I’d take the Cronus over the SWFA today. I ultimately chose the Cronus BTR over the G2 Razor due reticle and weight savings.
Here’s a long story of how I got to this point.
The SWFA is an awesome scope. My dad had one for a few years and he was completely happy with it. To my eyes it was provably just a little better than my Gen1 Razor. The reticle was useable, but not my favorite and I always wished it had a zero stop.
I lucked into the orginal Cronus on sale for $999 at Cabelas last year. One expensive impulse buy later I was really impressed. I used it for a few months on my TRG and really liked it.
I compared it to the Gen2 Razor my dad has another rifle and we found them to be very close. I liked the EBR2C more because it was thinner. My dad ended up selling the SWFA and buying that Cronus and went back to my gen1 razor. Very confused about what I wanted to upgrade to.
I ended up taking a flyer on the Cronus BTR. The turret detents were a little light on the first Cronus. They were precise feelings but little too fine in my opinion. The BTR feels similar to my gen1 Razor. They’re just a touch stiffer and the spacing is about the same.
SWFA & Razor Gen 1
SWFA glass is maybe a touch better.
Razor has better reticle and better feeling turrets.
Cronus BTR & Razor Gen2
I’d put glass and eye box dead even.
Reticles are close, pick the one you like more.
Turret feels goes to the Razor.
Weight goes to the Cronus
I’d take the Cronus over the SWFA today. I ultimately chose the Cronus BTR over the G2 Razor due reticle and weight savings.
Here’s a long story of how I got to this point.
The SWFA is an awesome scope. My dad had one for a few years and he was completely happy with it. To my eyes it was provably just a little better than my Gen1 Razor. The reticle was useable, but not my favorite and I always wished it had a zero stop.
I lucked into the orginal Cronus on sale for $999 at Cabelas last year. One expensive impulse buy later I was really impressed. I used it for a few months on my TRG and really liked it.
I compared it to the Gen2 Razor my dad has another rifle and we found them to be very close. I liked the EBR2C more because it was thinner. My dad ended up selling the SWFA and buying that Cronus and went back to my gen1 razor. Very confused about what I wanted to upgrade to.
I ended up taking a flyer on the Cronus BTR. The turret detents were a little light on the first Cronus. They were precise feelings but little too fine in my opinion. The BTR feels similar to my gen1 Razor. They’re just a touch stiffer and the spacing is about the same.
