Rifle Scopes Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

[brand692]

I have no experience in with back up optics, specifically a RDS, when used in conjunction with a conventional day optic. The Spuhr mount and the pictures on their website is what has turned me on to it. While I'd like to have a Spuhr, they don't make one for the scope (USO TPAL) I'm considering putting a back up on, so if I go that route, I'll use the Badger rings with cap.

Obviously, some questions come to mind when considering the backup optic. I have narrowed it down to a RMR or T1.

(1) Are they really that useful? They aren't cheap, nothing worth a crap is, but there is a cost/benefit analysis to be reasoned.

(2) What size objective will these things clear with a good line of sight through the backup optic without being obstructed by the bell?

(3) 4MOA or 7MOA?

(4) Am I on the right route with the RMR or T1?

Feel free to share your experiences, thoughts, pictures, and setups.

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Bueller..... Bueller.....

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

use this one

http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/p393.html

for a back up, and on a AR its just fine.

John

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

That one seems rather large. Why do you suggest it?

At 3 inches in length I'm not sure it would mount on the side between the turrets and the objective bell.

I guess I should clarify. I'm not looking to mount it on an AR. This will be for a bolt rifle. I'm looking for a setup similar to this:

(Photos compliment of Spuhr)

I think the Sparc is too large for this application, but I may be wrong. Even the T1 looks large. The RMR seems to be the best fit.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

I didn't read the whole thread in detail (sorry) but did you look at these?

They're at TNVC.

http://tnvc.com/categories/weapon_mounts_rings.html

John

 

[Postal0311]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

1. Useful as an 'oh-shit' sight, not so much for shooting nice groups.

3. Personal preference. They both work fine for me. Run a larger dot on a Doctor on an ACOG, and a smaller dot with a NF.

4. If you can afford a T-1 do that. If not, get a Doctor or a J-Point. Some of these others should be avoided.(TNVC RDP-II is junk, however their SAR mounts are top notch)

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

I can go with either T1 or a RMR. The RMR was more attractive as it has a smaller profile all around.

@jrob300, is there a benefit to using separate mount as opposed to the Badger ring caps with the build in rail?

@postal0311, is there a benefit with putting the back up on the vertical as opposed to an 45 degree offset like the Spuhr? Doctor vs RMR, any benefit one to the other? BTW, thanks for the pic.


Not really looking for a group making optic, just a quick sub 100y setup.

 

[Postal0311]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Brand692,

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">RMR is larger and more expensive then the Battery powered RMR.</span>
There are 2 RMR models. A dual illum fiber optic + tritium, and a battery powered model. The Battery powered model is larger and more expensive then the comparable Doctor.

Other then that the RMR is considered to be better then the Doc. I would rate the Doc as easier to use and better then the J-Point. I have yet to use anything cheaper then a J-Point that I think is any good.

As for mounting at an angle. For the most part, no difference. However if you are planning to cant the rifle, and if you can get the optic set up so its level when the rifle is canted for its use, then zeroing will be much easier.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@jrob300, is there a benefit to using separate mount as opposed to the Badger ring caps with the build in rail?</div></div>

I haven't use this particular mount. It was recommended to me by a guy who has one. Still thinking about it myself. If set at 45 deg. it is between the elev. and wind. knobs, so it's not an obstruction issue. That is why I though it might add value over the Badger.

John

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

This is the same setup that I have on my comp rifle.
Works good but it does place you in "Open" so you better be fast enough with to gain the open title. Can't find a picture right now so this will suffice.

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

John, the badger has an offset and vertical cap. Nothing against the TNVC, but if I'm already using the Badger rings, I was just planning on using one of the the Badger caps as well.

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postal0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brand692,

RMR is larger and more expensive then the Battery powered RMR. Other then that the RMR is considered to be better then the Doc. I would rate the Doc as easier to use and better then the J-Point. I have yet to use anything cheaper then a J-Point that I think is any good.

As for mounting at an angle. For the most part, no difference. However if you are planning to cant the rifle, and if you can get the optic set up so its level when the rifle is canted for its use, then zeroing will be much easier. </div></div>

I think you typed RMR when you meant Doc, but I'm not sure which you meant. Is the Doc or RMR larger? Really the reason I was more attracted to them over the T1 was the size.

I didn't factor in the difficulty of trying to zero an optic that was on a ±45 degree angle. It would certainly not be as easy as a vertical mounted unit.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

WOW. Sorry. I was under the impression they offered only a 90 deg. cap... Learn something new every day...

You may have helped me more than I helped you.

John

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

I didn't konw they did either until I started cruising Triad and found it!

Appreciate your input too. What are you considering putting one on?

 

[Postal0311]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Arg, type-o. Fixed in the old post.

I prefer piggyback optics because it is easier for me to use them ambidextrously. However that also lifts the red dot even higher over the bore making close range hold over issues.

I am working on a experiment with a T-1 on top of an ACOG. While the T1 is a great primary sight, putting it 4.5 inches above an AR15 bore makes for a nightmare of choosing zeroing distance.

 

[Pat M]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Warne - RAMP mount
http://www.warnetactical.com/R.A.M.P.html

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postal0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arg, type-o. Fixed in the old post.

I prefer piggyback optics because it is easier for me to use them ambidextrously. However that also lifts the red dot even higher over the bore making close range hold over issues.

I am working on a experiment with a T-1 on top of an ACOG. While the T1 is a great primary sight, putting it 4.5 inches above an AR15 bore makes for a nightmare of choosing zeroing distance. </div></div>

Got it. I should have figured that out.

Its going on a USO with EREK so really, the turret wouldn't cause any issues, it would be a line of sight issue over the objective bell, so offset or vertical are both options.

As I look at it now, the vertical seems to be the way to go as it eliminates the sight-in issues as well as the adding a off set dimension to the already exaggerated hold overs. The offset will lower the optic a bit, but I don't know if it would be worth the trouble.

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Warne - RAMP mount
http://www.warnetactical.com/R.A.M.P.html </div></div>

I've never seen that one before, but I only find 1 inch and 30mm configurations.

Are they offered in 34mm? The tube size on my scope is 34mm.

 

[Snipers]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Primary arms sells a "scope offset" mount for half the price of the TNVC. It's 30MM and comes with 1 inch inserts too.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you considering putting one on? </div></div>

The answer to this is pretty convoluted. I was thinking it would be nice to have on my 300WM, since I have a 5-20 Razor mounted and its FOV is not favorable for the type of hunting prevalent in NW Montana (close, thick), but great for eastern MT.

But now I'm reconsidering my whole game plan and may change calibers as well as optics, so everything is up in the air. We'll see where it lands.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

The placement on the mount depends on what the gun should be used for.

12 o'clock is great for giving the shooter a good view of the target area, it works pretty good on a carbine.
On a sniping rifle it's more difficult as the neck are not long enogh to reach the secondary sight from prone.

45 degree placement is in my opinion fairly good for a sniping rifle as you can reach the red dot from prone but also from other positions.

For a Carbine I think that 3 o'clock is king.
Just rotate the gun, almost same cheekcontact and use the reddot sight.
Great.

But the life is pretty simple isent it?
It's just to buy a mount that accept all placements and you can play around and find out what fits you.

Håkan

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Since it's a back up RDS, I think the RMR Dual Illumination optic might be best. Though I heard once someone accidentally getting the clear shield over the fiber optic caught on something and ripping it off. (Might be an isolated incident.) It does really bug me that they don't make a cover for the RMR. At very least if you're some tactical dude, seems that a super reflective red piece of glass would be something you'd want covered when not in use. For me, I'd just rather not have my expensive RMR's glass getting scratched to piss. I've been considering getting a bit of kydex and trying my hand at making my own cover.

I have been using Fastfire II sights for a while and have had no issues with them. Mine has a cover and has maintained zero. Might be a cheaper solution. I use the one on my .22lr pistol very regularly and I still haven't had to change the battery. Had that one for around a year. One on the AR for longer.

Personally I really like the 45 degree position the best. The larue mount puts these things in a pretty decent position, but a dedicated ring mount is super low profile and easy to try all sorts of positions. (vs a picatiny adapter base attached to a picatiny ring mount.) This KZ mount is something I got for free with my RMR, and I had planned on buying something else. Yet after using it, I'm thinking it's doing the job perfectly. I was really surprised to see that it didn't interfere with the larue ring for the position I mounted it. Still it was super close, so it probably won't work the way I mounted it with something like a badger ring.

On the AR, in order to see this RMR, all I have to do is roll my head back a bit and then tilt to the right side a tad. I still have a pretty good cheekweld. It feels very much like the head position that I use when using lower 3rds cowitness Aimpoint mounts. (Aimpoint as primary optic.)

RMR KZ mount

Burris Fastfire II Larue SPR ring mount. (Dummy corded the cover too.)

I know these are ARs, but they're really the only things I've thought about putting a secondary reddot on. Their point for me is faster engagement.

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Salmonaxe, are those 50 or 56mm objectives? They both look to have a really clear line of sight over the bell.

I guess my biggest concern was maintaining a small, useable package that didn't stick way out yet the LOS cleared the objective.

I decided on an RMR. The T1 was just too large, and it was hard to see exactly what mount was appropriate for the Docter.





Spuhr, I'd love one of your mounts, but this will go onto a USO 5-25x58 34mm body TPAL. The TPAL limits me to Badger rings. They do offer both the vertical and offset ring caps, so I have two options. A third and final mounting option is the Trijicon mount that clamps onto a rail. But that will be a last ditch effort if I don't like the way it sets up with the Badger options.

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

Brand692

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brand692
</div></div>

Häkan,

Please tell me that was simply the beginning of a post where you were going to tell me that you now offered them for the TPAL.....

Maybe I'm incorrect altogether. I was under the impression that the turret body on the TPAL was too long for the Spuhr mount to accommodate. I saw one of the Spuhr mounts on another members rifle and it was nice.

Ben

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

They are 50mm objective. Still I would think that it wouldn't be a problem on a 58mm objective. (Since it would only radially add 4mm.)

In my earlier post I was trying to point out that a picatiny interface wouldn't be needed since dedicated ring mounts for the RMR exist.

Something like this. (Similar but not the same as my KZ mount.)

Here's a TNVC mount. (Can't seem to find it on their website.)

 

[brand692]

Re: Backup RDS w/ Scope ?'s... Pics?

That is a mounting option I haven't seen, putting the mini RDS between the ocular and the turrets/turret block.

I'm going to give the badgers a shot and if they don't work, I'll order one from Victor. I can't find them on the sight right now. I'll probably have to send him a PM and see if they offer one in a 34mm.