Bad buyer, Withoutwarning

[tylerw02]

Sold the dude a Leupold, sent it back to Leupold for inspection before I shipped it to him and they offered a clean bill of health. Shipped it to a little town two hours away from me to him.

Then he gets on PayPal and disputes it when the reality is he had his buddy put the scope on a boat to Australia.

40 days later PayPal contacts me saying that I need to refund the guy because it was “damaged in shipping” and doesn’t function.

I have had zero coms with this asshole since I confirmed that he received it the day after it was shipped (which was in reality his buddy that lives near me).

Sounds like his buddy committed an ITAR violation in the process by shipping the scope out of the US on his behalf.

Now here I am, having sold the scope and using by cash to pay on my babies’ NICU bills, having to come up with a significant amount of money to cover PayPal as out the $100 in shipping......and I don’t have my scope!

Do not sell to this guy!!!!!

 

[beretta_man11]

this guy?: @withoutwarning

 

[footsteps]

2 hours away I wouldd be knocking on his door...... and get my cash

 

[FatBoy]

Before any refund could be discussed I would require he produce the product. If he can't, there is nothing to talk about.

If this persists, and you are fairly certain he shipped an ITAR product overseas, my next call would be to whatever federal organization polices ITAR. If, in fact, he was part of laundering a scope out of the US, his ass and his buddy are
going to have some explaining to do...

Karma's a motherfucker.. I hope this is just a misunderstanding and you guys can come to a mutual agreement.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

They're off work for a bit that'll have to wait a few days :/

Sorry to hear about that... When people offer to buy my stuff I sometimes forget to vet them because I usually just check on people I am buying from. More careful in the future thanks for the post.

 

[Centuriator]

This is why I only accept USPS Money Orders. Weeds out the losers. I a demonstrated bona fides of successful purchases and sales, they can check all that out and decide if they want to buy and pay as I require, or not. If they don't, somebody else comes along who will.

PayPal is a mess for any firearms related items and sellers are entirely at their mercy, they will nearly ALWAYS rule in favor of the buyer, no matter what.

 

[Fauropitotto]

As a buyer, Paypal protects me from sellers that are running a scam. I see so much "friends and family" bullshit here that I'm convinced every single person that mentions it is deliberately trying to steal money.

Even with USPS Money Orders, there's absolutely no recourse if the recipient decides to cash it in and deactivate their account.

At least with Paypal I can get my money back if the seller decides to run.

 

[308pirate]

This is why I only accept USPS Money Orders. Weeds out the losers. I a demonstrated bona fides of successful purchases and sales, they can check all that out and decide if they want to buy and pay as I require, or not. If they don't, somebody else comes along who will.

PayPal is a mess for any firearms related items and sellers are entirely at their mercy, they will nearly ALWAYS rule in favor of the buyer, no matter what.

+1

I will not purchase from any individual who won't accept a USPS money order or credit card. Nor will I accept PayPal as payment under any circumstances. Whatever they have I can either find someplace else or do without.

 

[308pirate]

Then he gets on PayPal and disputes it when the reality is he had his buddy put the scope on a boat to Australia.

Sounds like his buddy committed an ITAR violation in the process by shipping the scope out of the US on his behalf.

I don't agree with most of the ITAR bullshit, but in this case it can be useful to fuck a douchebag over.

Here you go, nail his ass: https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/?id=ddtc_kb_article_page&sys_id=87ab2d67db4ddb00d0a370131f961997

 

[J McGriddle]

It seems there are occasionally disputes on here and especially FB b/s/t. To me, if you take pictures and screen shots of everything imaginable and ship it insured for the sale amount there isn't much the buyer can do to screw you over is there?

I won't ship anything worth more than $100 without insurance and I usually offer to split the cost of insurance or factor it into the sale price.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

"Failure to report a violation is considered by DTCC when assessing penalties."

 

[Jefe's Dope]

1. You have to be able and willing to lose any money or item you sell online.

2. Stop using Friends and Family. Pay or absorb the fee. Build it into your pricing like you would shipping.*

3. I hate thieves.

4. How could you possibly know the person you shipped it to, turned around and shipped it overseas (Australia)?

* If you did indeed use Friends and Family, which I'm thinking you might not of, how is he disputing this? I didn't think buyers had any recourse when using Friends and Family.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

This has more to do with the guy being manipulated than selling using PayPal. I often refer to us, present company included, as a bunch of dumbasses, but asking for a refund in conjunction with committing a crime takes the cake. This is the Internet. It is not a branch or auxiliary of law enforcement. If I was the OP I would delete this thread and start over.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Did you report him and the thread & any PMs to the Mods here?
If not, I'd make sure to do it right away.

 

[W54/XM-388]

1. You have to be able and willing to lose any money or item you sell online.
2. Stop using Friends and Family. Pay or absorb the fee. Build it into your pricing like you would shipping.*

That would not have protected the seller from the scam as stated in the thread.
If anything it would have only made it that much easier for him to get scammed without as many steps and be out even more money after fees.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

2. Stop using Friends and Family. Pay or absorb the fee. Build it into your pricing like you would shipping.*

* If you did indeed use Friends and Family, which I'm thinking you might not of, how is he disputing this? I didn't think buyers had any recourse when using Friends and Family.

That would not have protected the seller from the scam as stated in the thread.
If anything it would have only made it that much easier for him to get scammed without as many steps and be out even more money after fees.

I edited my post. Probably while you were writing yours. ?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Is the scope in the US now or in Australia?
Was it shipped insured?
Would Leupold warranty the repair?
Does Paypal know the scope was sent out of the country?
Does the buyer have the scope back?
The buyer was on the forum early this morning.
What does he have to say?

 

[Lowlight]

There is a report button, we ban these accounts.

His account has been banned and he will not be allowed to return.

 

[tylerw02]

I’ll fill in some details, he paid with PayPal, not friends and family. I ate the fees initially, which is fine, even though I stated to him what I would take for the scope. I wasn’t going to argue about it.

He gave me a local address, I suppose a friend or contact he has here in Missouri that accepted the scope and then, evidently, shipped it to Australia for him. Somebody named “mark” accepted the scope at the address in Missouri I shipped to, so ultimately the ITAR bullshit would be on his buddy.

I only found out that the scope ended up in Australia because PayPal told me it was being shipped back to me from Aus with a tracking number....which has not moved since this BS started.

Hopefully, it actually makes it back but I’m not confident at this point. I will be calling PayPal back if it does not and hopefully I will get the cash back. He flat out lied to PayPal that he attempted to “resolve” the issue with me, but he ghosted from the time the scope was signed for by his buddy 40 days ago. I did find where he posted he wasn’t happy with optical clarity in a thread and was “sending it back” so he could get a Nightforce.

 

[Centuriator]

Even with USPS Money Orders, there's absolutely no recourse if the recipient decides to cash it in and deactivate their account.

At least with Paypal I can get my money back if the seller decides to run.

That's fine, find people who take PayPal. I've been screwed way too many times by buyers whining to PayPal on eBay and other venues. That's why now I only accept payment in the form of USPS Money Orders. I demonstrate my bona fides as a seller. Up to the buyer at that point. If he doesn't want to use USPS Money Orders, we won't do business. Simple. A seller is under zero obligation to accept any particular form of payment that a buyer may want to use.

The OP chose to accept PayPal. That was a poor choice.

 

[J McGriddle]

I did find where he posted he wasn’t happy with optical clarity in a thread and was “sending it back” so he could get a Nightforce.

I hope you took a screenshot at least.

 

[tylerw02]

I don’t be taking PP anymore less it’s FF option. I’ve been a hide member and had hundreds of transactions over the years and never a problem until now. Most guys on the Hude are good dudes. I’m in the process of starting a business and we had planned to accept PayPal because that’s what customers want. I’m second guessing that decision now.

 

[Tim_WNC]

I don’t be taking PP anymore less it’s FF option. I’ve been a hide member and had hundreds of transactions over the years and never a problem until now. Most guys on the Hude are good dudes. I’m in the process of starting a business and we had planned to accept PayPal because that’s what customers want. I’m second guessing that decision now.

As far as a business is concerned, you'll get the same (one sided, buyer gets benefit of doubt) treatment from any CC processor. Best to accoutn for a certain % of deals going bad as part of your pricing structure and accept the PP/CC payment methods. You'll lose more business if it's harder to complete a transaction than you'll lose in bad actors.

 

[GIXXER2000]

And this is why I only take USPS Money Orders. If the buyer needs to get more then 1 MO I will discount the item a little or pay the shipping. Either they are good or I send the bad MO back and don't ship the item.

 

[footsteps]

Give him 5 days to get you're property back to you, then contact those who will knock on his door (the recipient/ out of country shipper) i.e. the Feds and let the chips fall wher they may. Plenty of bad peeps lurking in Aussie land . Fucking scumbags

 

[W54/XM-388]

I don’t be taking PP anymore less it’s FF option. I’ve been a hide member and had hundreds of transactions over the years and never a problem until now. Most guys on the Hude are good dudes. I’m in the process of starting a business and we had planned to accept PayPal because that’s what customers want. I’m second guessing that decision now.

If you are starting a business, especially one that does mail order / distance selling, just expect that there is going to be quite the learning curve at first as all the scammers try to see if you are up to the latest stuff. Expect to be stolen from a few times till you figure out the common scams on sight and developed a dim view of humanity.

Just about any payment method apart from someone handing you cash in your hand that you verify is legit cash can be reversed by a clever enough scammer. Just about every "marketplace" doesn't care at all about the sellers, they figure they have you in a monopoly and tough luck. They just care that the "buyers" or "scammers" are happy because they get a cut even if you get screwed.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Give him 5 days to get you're property back to you, then contact those who will knock on his door (the recipient/ out of country shipper) i.e. the Feds and let the chips fall wher they may. Plenty of bad peeps lurking in Aussie land . Fucking scumbags

It might be worth going ahead and sending notice to the "buddy" he had ship the scope to him, informing him that he has done a big bad mistake and he might get nailed to the wall because his "friend" is a greedy scammer (had the guy just shut up and you never heard again nobody would be the wiser). That might also help speed things up in getting this guy to fess up.

I'd suggest you PM Theis on the site here & see what advice he would have in sending a letter to his "buddy" and about the reporting chain.

 

[footsteps]

I agree with W54/XM-338

 

[tylerw02]

I tried to call the phone number provided without avail. I had also PM’ed the “buyer”. I’m required to report an ITAR violation, just like everybody else, so I can’t ignore it. But I agree, this dude needs a heads up as to what he did for his friend “without warning”.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I tried to call the phone number provided without avail. I had also PM’ed the “buyer”. I’m required to report an ITAR violation, just like everybody else, so I can’t ignore it. But I agree, this dude needs a heads up as to what he did for his friend “without warning”.

Mail a letter, and then possibly mail a registered letter after.

But ask Theis first.

 

[tylerw02]

Updates—-the gentleman that shipped the scope from here to there still hasn’t been in touch.

withoutwarning contacted me, asked me not to contact the state department. He did ship the scope back finally, and got butthurt he was banned. Then he said he was going to make a new account which another member pm’ed me about an account, thestache, which appears to be him. He’s back in the same threads making the same statements. So I would be on the lookout if he starts working the marketplace.

I did send the state department the electronic communications and screenshots of all our coms here and via PP. I know they are likely busy with the shutdown, they seemed appreciative of the open communication.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Well holy crap lol....I typically NEVER venture into this sub forum because I do not sell or buy so no need to check feedback but for some reason I clicked just to read because the name of "withoutwarning".

Feel free to PM me if you need any assistance with this, in regards to ITAR.

Also--Just FYI---not all scopes fall under ITAR/DDTC control. Some fall under EAR/Dept of Commerce control; in which for Australia would be a no license required, but an AES filing would still have to be done.

This is member you think is same guy as "withoutwarning"? https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/thestacche.132384/#recent-content

Edited To Add: I reviewed your previous threads and if this is the scope (Mark 6 3-18x44 illuminated TMR) being referred to; it is ITAR violation.

Sincerely,
Theis