I just had a question about some issues that I have been having with some ammo I reloaded. Just as a disclaimer the person that was teaching me how to reload has had about 10 years behind him and he was reloading with me on this ammo, so I'm not completely new to reloading. I am having some issues with some of my ammo for my .308 Win and it is seeming like I have some bad primers or a firing pin that isn't striking deep enough on my bolt. The only reason that I would even consider the firing pin was that prior to this I had to return my rifle to the manufacture and get a completely new gun, and the ammo wasn't doing this until I had my new one. The reason I suspect the primers is that I can reset the bolt and strike it 2 or 3 times after that and it is a deep hit on the primer and it still don't go off. So what are your thoughts on it? If you would like pictures of the primers I can get them up to show. Thanks for the help.
- Thread starter Maceofblades
- Start date
What brand of primers? I was having 1 in 10 remingtons not go off. Switched to CCIs and have been trouble free.
They were Large Rifle Winchester getting around a 1 in 5 to 1 in 7 some where around there. The last time there were 10 like that and I don't think I shot 50 rounds.
What are using to seat primers? It is almost always an issue with primer sensitivity or over sizing the cartridge case(pushing the shoulder back to far). The Remington ejector adds to the problem with over sized brass as it pushes the case away from the bolt face.
Davetooley to seat the primers I was using the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme, as for the over sized cartridges we are doing a full case sizing and trim on all the brass that were over the Max Case Length.
MtnCreek the rifle that I'm using is a Savage Model 10, it is a bolt gun that gets cleaned after each trip to the range. I'll let you know when we pull the bullets and deprime the bad rounds. As for it being Large Pistol Primer no I made sure that the box was large rifle primers, because that is an easy one to over look (my reloading friend warned me of that one). So how would you go about getting the depth of the firing pin measured?
The press has a lot of leverage but make sure you seat the primers firmly. I don't know that you could over do it. I've had issues when using a hand priming tool and Wolf primers. I didn't seat them hard/deep enough to sensitize them. I had hang fires. Are you adjusting the Fl die to match the chamber or screwing it down to touch the shell holder? The Savage has an ejector that will push the case forward away from the bolt face. Also try a few factory rounds for comparison.
The more I have been digging into this the more that it points to the firing pin due to either it isn't accelerating fast enough to hit the primer or something is bogging it down. I got to looking at a few other places and they were saying that the colder weather will cause more misfires than the warmer weather which would be consistent with what I have seen. Since in the summer it was a 1 in 10 and after Christmas it was like a 1 in 5 or 1 in 6. As for the head spacing I had a gun smith check that just about 2 weeks ago so that is just fine. I'll be working on the firing pin tonight if I can squeeze it in before New Years Family time. So I'll check that out and get back with you guys, thanks for your help.
Davetooly I got a chance to us some factory ammo and didn't have any problems out of it but I only had a few rounds left at the range the day we were shooting (which was this last time in the cold), and it shot just fine but I think I only had like 4 or 5 rounds and it was 180 gr Winchester softpoint hunting ammo. As for the FL die question, I'm not sure off the top of my head but I think we used what the instructions called for and screwed it down to touch the shell holder. It has been over 2 years since I reloaded that 308 Win ammo so I'm not sure about that one but I think that is what we done. So it is the same ammo that I used in my other Savage before I had to swap it out for this one, and I never had any problems with the ammo till I got the new one. So I'll check the firing pin and see where that goes.
MtnCreek I un-cocked the bolt yesterday and I measured it and it measured 0.059 that came out of the bolt. So from what I can tell it seems like it isn't getting the acceleration that it needs to ignite the primers. Also could it be something along the lines of the inside of the bolt needing cleaned?
MtnCreek, Thanks for the offer I may take you up on the firing pin spring, but I believe your right and I don't want to be just masking over another issue. I'm going to take it to a gun smith and see if I get a measurement on the amount of force going into the bullet. While he is fiddling with it I may get him to check what the head spacing is for the rifle. Since it all works only if the brass is flush up against the throat of the chamber and the bolt face is on the butt of the brass.
The primers on the brass that I have can't really be set too deep since they are flush with the bottom of the brass, and wouldn't go any deeper into the brass without marring up the primer. I'm moving away from my thought of it being the primers and starting to gravitate that is more the gun. As much as I hate to admit it, I may have to go get some factory ammo and run it just to see what kind (if any) misfires I have. At this point with all the crap that I have had out of this gun trouble wise I'm not sure that if given the opportunity again if I would ever purchase another Savage.
If I get any new information I'll let you know.
The primers on the brass that I have can't really be set too deep since they are flush with the bottom of the brass, and wouldn't go any deeper into the brass without marring up the primer. I'm moving away from my thought of it being the primers and starting to gravitate that is more the gun. As much as I hate to admit it, I may have to go get some factory ammo and run it just to see what kind (if any) misfires I have. At this point with all the crap that I have had out of this gun trouble wise I'm not sure that if given the opportunity again if I would ever purchase another Savage.
If I get any new information I'll let you know.
MtnCreek I have a question, around what should the firing pin be set since you said that the .059" is a little excessive? Since I'm wandering if I back it back a little bit if the spring will give it enough add acceleration to strike the primer right, what do you think?
Just out of curiosity, have you pulled the bullets from the rounds that did not fire to inspect inside? The reason I ask is that I once had a similar problem with several rounds from a batch not firing, and I was sure I had a primer problem. After getting them home and pulling the bullets, it turned out that all of the primers had fired just fine, but there was no powder in the cases. After seeing this in the first couple I pulled, I measured the OAL of the rest that didn't fire and sure enough, they were a fair amount longer than the other loaded rounds, but not enough to notice if you weren't looking for it. The primer with no powder moved the bullets just a bit forward, but not enough to leave the neck.
Pretty dumb, but far from the dumbest thing I've ever done...
Pretty dumb, but far from the dumbest thing I've ever done...
Erud I checked the weight on them and they had powder in them. I actually checked that one early on since I have had the vice versa issue before and didn't move the funnel and then doubled on the powder charge, I noticed very quick since I had powder coming out of the brass. Yea I did check that one but thank you for your thought on it.
MtnCreek I'll make sure of those numbers and I'm going to take the bolt apart tonight if I get a chance and change that depth and just try it out from there.
MtnCreek I'll make sure of those numbers and I'm going to take the bolt apart tonight if I get a chance and change that depth and just try it out from there.
Had the same problem today with my savage,but the only difference was that I changed from Fed210M primers to CCI large rifle not the benchrest.This gun is new with 120 rnds down it and I have never had a misfire with it or any of my rifles,but I have never used CCI primers.
Basic, but bears mentioning, if you have exhausted other considerations. Primer contamination with stray oil, especially since you are priming with the press. Other than that, setting the shoulder back a bit too far can cause a misfire because with excessive headspace, the force of the firing pin can bump the cartridge forward without igniting the primer. Also rare, but can happen. BB
With a new firing pin....
Do you get the same FTF percentage with factory ammo? Or is it only with your reloads?
Tell us about your reloading setup and processes.
Did you use a case gage to set up your sizing die? Do the FTF rounds fit in the case gage?
Do you lube the inside of the case mouth when sizing? If the expander ball drags on the case neck as it comes out, it can stretch the shoulder forward, usually inconsistently.
I would lean toward believing it is your reloading process, but last summer I had some FTFs in a Rem 700 that I bought new 30+ years ago, disassembled the bolt, and found a small metal disk (.150"x.025" or so) inside the bolt that caused the firing pin to bind. I had never taken that bolt apart before, so it had to be in there from the factory.
Tell us about your reloading setup and processes.
Did you use a case gage to set up your sizing die? Do the FTF rounds fit in the case gage?
Do you lube the inside of the case mouth when sizing? If the expander ball drags on the case neck as it comes out, it can stretch the shoulder forward, usually inconsistently.
I would lean toward believing it is your reloading process, but last summer I had some FTFs in a Rem 700 that I bought new 30+ years ago, disassembled the bolt, and found a small metal disk (.150"x.025" or so) inside the bolt that caused the firing pin to bind. I had never taken that bolt apart before, so it had to be in there from the factory.
I use a case guage when reloading all my rifles.I lube the inside of the neck with imperial dry neck lube.None of my expander balls drag on any of my dies.
The metal disk you are talking is a bushing that you will find on a shit load of remingtons to get the correct firing pin extrusion.If yours was hanging up it was probably from you not taking the bolt apart and cleaning the inside and lubing it correctly after 30 years of use.I take mine apart and clean on a regular basis,especially on the ones I shoot quite often.
The metal disk you are talking is a bushing that you will find on a shit load of remingtons to get the correct firing pin extrusion.If yours was hanging up it was probably from you not taking the bolt apart and cleaning the inside and lubing it correctly after 30 years of use.I take mine apart and clean on a regular basis,especially on the ones I shoot quite often.
Well guys I think I have the problem nailed down. After working on it over the weekend I figured out that it wasn't my ammo since I was having misfires with factory ammo as well as my reloads. So I have a friend of mine with a vice and we were able to wrap a towel around the bolt so not to mark it up with tool marks and break the hex bolt free (since I haven't done it since I have had it there was red lock tight on the threads). The firing pin protrution isn't what we changed, the spring has a compression adjustment on it and I was getting a deep enough strike but just not a hard/fast enough strike. I just test fired some of the ammo that had been struck but misfired and new ammo. Both fired just fine, and there wasn't any problems with the primer being damaged. So thanks for all your help on the questions guys I think we have nailed down the problem.
I just had the same problem with my new 10FCP. It would only ignite about half of the factory loads i was firing. I did the same thing as you---took the bolt apart, tightened down a few turns on the compression nut, and now it fires without any issues. If anyone else is doing this just make sure you don't go too far tightening it. The firing pin should bottom out on the base of the bolt head and not on the cocking pin.
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