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Range Report Ballistic AE help... Variable Coefficients?

abogue77

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 3, 2013
89
3
Tyler, Texas
I hope I'm posting this in right forum. I'm confused about variable coefficients on Ballistic AE app for iPhone. I'm running 27 gn Varget behind a 55 gn Sierra HPBT, MV 3200 fps. The coefficient for that bullet states "variable" for that bullet when I select it from the list, whereas on say the 55 gn BK, it's a set coefficient. How is a coefficient variable on a static bullet? Can someone explain this that might know more about it. My drop is off 6 inches for the same weight, zero, and muzzle velocity for the BK vs the HPBT. But in reality the bullet only drops about 11, not 17 inches.


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The bullet manufacturer states that the BC varies depending on the MV. The faster the speed the higher the BC. If you look at the top of your ballistics chart it will give you the different BC's based on speed.

The Capn'
 
Ok, that makes sense, but the muzzle velocity I'm entering is the same, and my bullet is really 11 inches low at 300 (like the other 55 gn Sierra's), not 17 inches low. Is this a program glitch?
 
It shows almost a 400 fps velocity difference at the target distance, for basically the same bullet, I know that's not right.
 
It shows almost a 400 fps velocity difference at the target distance, for basically the same bullet, I know that's not right.

The Blitz King has a significant advantage:
.237 @ 2900 fps and above
.239 between 2900 and 1800 fps
.230 @ 1800 fps and below

Over the HPBT:
.185 @ 2800 fps and above
.189 between 2800 and 1800 fps
.193 @ 1800 fps and below

JBM give velocities at the target that are pretty close to what is pictured but I dont see the 17" for the 55 HPBT. I reckon this is why we have to tune and verify our ballistic calcs.

Just out of curiosity, I’ll play with AE tonight and see if my numbers match yours. It gives me something to do for 10 minutes ;)
 
Ok, that makes sense, but the muzzle velocity I'm entering is the same, and my bullet is really 11 inches low at 300 (like the other 55 gn Sierra's), not 17 inches low. Is this a program glitch?

The BC is dependent of speed, not muzzle velocity. Since the bullets slows down due to drag, the BC will also decrease accordingly. So the BC actually changes in flight.
 
Here you go CLICK HERE
Use a G7 number.


As stated above, the accuracy of the ballistic solution is only as accurate as the inputs you give it. The advertised BC’s for Berger bullets are established by actual field firing tests over long range and are very accurate. Using the properly referenced BC (G7 vs G1) for the bullet you’re modeling is important. For any bullet with a boat tail, we recommend using the G7 BC. Flat based bullets have a drag profile that matches the G1 standard better. The products page lists both values for each bullet, with the recommended value highlighted.
Knowing your true muzzle velocity is important when calculating external ballistics. It’s best to measure your muzzle velocity directly with a chronograph.
Air pressure considerations
Air pressure considerations
If you want a truly accurate long range trajectory prediction, you can’t ignore atmospheric effects. This is especially true the farther you get from standard conditions (sea level altitude, 59 degrees Fahrenheit, 0% humidity). If you want a valid trajectory for high above sea level, you need to enter an air pressure that corresponds to your altitude. You can see a table of air pressure by hovering the mouse on the word ‘Pressure’ in the ballistics program.
Last but not least, it’s important to verify the most important link between the calculated ballistics and your point of impact: your scope. If the ballistics program calculates 30.0 MOA of drop for a particular shot, and you dial your scope to 30.0 MOA, are your sure it’s applying exactly 30.0 MOA? In reality, many scopes have enough error in them to cause misses at long range. It’s important to verify the actual value of your scope clicks by firing groups at short range. Shoot a group at your rifle’s zero, adjust the scope a known amount and shoot another group. Measure the distance between the two groups to see if the scope actually moves your point of aim by the desired amount. If it doesn’t, you need to apply a correction factor to your scope in order for the output from the ballistics program to be accurate for your particular scope.
 
The BC is dependent of speed, not muzzle velocity. Since the bullets slows down due to drag, the BC will also decrease accordingly. So the BC actually changes in flight.

Depends on which method used to calculate BC. True with G1 but not with G7
 
Ok, I understand about the variable coefficients now, I just need to learn more about the different drag models. Thanks for the info guys! However, regardless of coefficients, the Sierra HPBT is really only 11 inches low at 300 (just like the BK), not 17 inches low like the app says it will be. I'm still playing with it, maybe there's something else I'm not doing right.
 
Just a question for you. Are you 100% on your MV,as in you chrono'd it? Is the number you entered in for sight height correct? I'm thinking you might have something with an erroneous input that is causing you to see the difference you are getting from 11" and 17".
 
Just a question for you. Are you 100% on your MV,as in you chrono'd it? Is the number you entered in for sight height correct? I'm thinking you might have something with an erroneous input that is causing you to see the difference you are getting from 11" and 17".

Well, no, not crono'd. I know I should but I don't have one yet. I was assuming (I know what that does) that since my powder charge was the same with the same weight bullet that I'd be ok. I'll put a chrono on my wish list. My sight height is good. I was just trying to figure out why it was
so off when on my other loads it's dead on.

Where can I read up and learn about the different drag models and when to use one over the other?
 
Well, no, not crono'd. I know I should but I don't have one yet. I was assuming (I know what that does) that since my powder charge was the same with the same weight bullet that I'd be ok. I'll put a chrono on my wish list. My sight height is good. I was just trying to figure out why it was
so off when on my other loads it's dead on.

Where can I read up and learn about the different drag models and when to use one over the other?

Sense you don't have a chrono I'd make that a number one thing to get next. With out it you are just spinning tires sorta speak. One of THE most important things going into calculating drop is M.V. at certain atmospheric conditions. You can't even really use "other guy's" velocity even if it's a same rifle/load combo. Each rifle/load will have it's own quirks sorta speak, that effect M.V. Heck just a 50fps difference can be a hit or a miss.
I know not every one can spring for a ~$150 chrono for a hobby, maybe see if the buddy or two want to go in on one.
About the difference between your DOPE and calculated trajectories. The software told you to dial ~5.4 MOA and your actual drop was ~3.5. Most likely it was because of a wrong data input. My 223 with standard 55gr FMJ ball drops right around 3MOA at 300 yards.
Just inputed all the data you had in your original post into JBM, it shows drop of 4.1 MOA at 300 yards.
Any way hope this helps.

Edit: I can't post a link (something about needing permission or something), but go to google and type in "external ballistics", on first page there will be a link to a berger webpage that sorta explains the BC.
 
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If all your other data is solid, try using the truing feature on AE to see what it adjusts your MV to and if it then reflects the real world data you have collected for each range.

I did, haha, it raised my predicted MV to 4800, that's with 27 gn Varget pushing a 55 gn bullet!
 
G1. Let me backup a hair cause I'm starting to get confused. Lol

I took with me to the range both Sierra Blitzking loads and Hollow Point Boat Tail loads. Shot them both at 100, 200, and 300 yds. Same charge of 27 gn Varget. Both bullets had the same drop at both 200 and 300, but according to Ballistic AE the HPBT was supposed to drop 6 more inches at 300, which it didn't, it was right in line with the BlitzKing. Because I noticed the BC of the HPBT was variable, I assumed it had something to do with that. Just trying to figure out why it was off so much. I double checked my data entry and even tried to true it from the results I got and it threw my predicted velocity of the HPBT damn near to 5000 fps MV. I'm still playing with it to see if it is user error, or just a bad calculation in the app itself.
 
I ran the same bullets with default atmospherics at 3200 fps and I get the exact same 11.21" / 1.04 Mil for the 55 gr BK. But I get 13.81" / 1.28 Mil for the 55gr HPBT. I think the BC could account for a 2.5" difference in POI but not 6" + at 300. Can you start from scratch on the HPBT and verify the results?
 
Ok, I think I got it figured out. If I build up a load under 'trajectory' and save it as a favorite, then choose that favorite in the 'HUD' then I get the correct results. However, if I pick a projectile directly from the 'HUD' and assign it a MV, then the results are skewed. Idk, weird. I'll just make my favorites list and go from there. Thanks for all the input guys.
 
Ok, I think I got it figured out. If I build up a load under 'trajectory' and save it as a favorite, then choose that favorite in the 'HUD' then I get the correct results. However, if I pick a projectile directly from the 'HUD' and assign it a MV, then the results are skewed. Idk, weird. I'll just make my favorites list and go from there. Thanks for all the input guys.

This is just one of the many reasons why I wish there was an actual users manual that one could download and refer to. There is a lot that is not as intuitive as the author might have thought.