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Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

michael_aos

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Lapua used to publish a G1 BC .615. That's what's in the Sierra Bullets Infinity 6 software.

Lapua now publishes a G1 BC of .578 on their website, along with a G7 BC of .290.

In Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting, Bryan Litz lists the G1 BC as .557 and G7 as .285.

Just curious what other people are using.
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

Litz. Try not to toss his numbers around here. There is a reason they are hidden in ballistics calculators...it's not free to get the info.

Josh
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Litz. Try not to toss his numbers around here. There is a reason they are hidden in ballistics calculators...it's not free to get the info.

Josh </div></div>

WTF?
Please, let me hear the logic.
Miles
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

How dare you speak against the all holy and mighty LAPUA! LOL
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

Micheal,
Can you find any info on the 123gr scenar? If you do, will you post it up for me to view please.
Thanks for the help.
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Litz. Try not to toss his numbers around here. There is a reason they are hidden in ballistics calculators...it's not free to get the info.

Josh </div></div>

WTF?
Please, let me hear the logic.
Miles </div></div>

The logic behind not showing the BC's in programs is related to copyright/IP. Plainly put, the experimentally determined BC's in my book comprise a great deal of the books value. If someone can buy a $10 app and have access to all those numbers, it could dis-incline many people from buying the book. I have an agreement with all the app developers who use my BC library. They're using it freely which enhances the accuracy/value of their apps. In exchange, they agree not to make the BC's visible which protects my IP and people are more encouraged to consider the book.

However, the point of having done all that work is to benefit shooters. I don't have a problem with guys sharing a few numbers relevant to a conversation; that's fine. I just don't want the whole list (or large parts of it) to be freely and easily available online.

On that note, I am making some bullet data available on my website as a sort of 'teaser' for the data contained in my book. You can see full data on a handful of bullets on my website:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Bullets.html

Regarding Lapua, good on them for stepping up and providing radar based G7 BC's for their bullets. For quite a while they had the radar data (Mach-CD data) available for download which was a tremendous resource. Problem was they were still listing G1 BC's that represented vastly different performance than what was reflected in the radar data. I think it's been about a year ago now that they re-assessed all their BC's to be in better alignment with their radar data, and also provided the BC's referenced to the G7 standard. These radar based G7 BC's are, for the most part, very similar to what I've assessed.

The performance I measured for the 6.5mm 123 Scenar is:
G1 BC: .519
G7 BC: .265
(both averaged from 3000 to 1500 fps)

Lapua has this bullet at G1: .527 and G7: .263. Odd that one's + and one's -, but we're talking about 1.5% difference in the G1 and 0.8% difference for the G7. So Lapua and I are practically representing the same performance. I suspect the larger difference in the G1 comes from velocity dependence (we probably averaged over different speed bands). The G7 BC of .263/.265 is the number I would use.

An added note, the 6.5mm 139 gr Scenars that I tested had a slightly larger than average meplat/tips (.076" diameter, whereas the 108 and 123's I tested had meplat's of .064 and .061). Point is that my assessed performance for the 139 may be a little lower than average if the average 139's have smaller meplat's.

Take care,
-Bryan
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

Bryan,

I fully accept Your logic. And I understand. I'd like to apologize but I can't, I'm afraid I would be 'teasing'.
Miles
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

Bryan has done a very valuable service to the precision rifle community by researching and popularizing G7 ballistic coefficients. But beyond that, his book is full of valuable information to any precision rifleman that goes way beyond ballistic coefficients.

So, my advice to everyone with an interest in precision rifle shooting is just <span style="font-weight: bold">buy the book</span>. I did - twice, as my first copy disappeared. If I only owned one book about the science of shooting a precision rifle at long distances, it would be Bryan's.
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">buy the book</span></div></div>

I have the 1st Edition. Have been toying with buying the 2nd Edition.
--
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

The 6.5mm bullet i find to be more accurate is the old school 147gr lapua fmjbt which yields a bc of .647. I have successfully taken accurate shots out to 1500 yards with my ai260 remington.
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seabass1858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5mm bullet i find to be more accurate is the old school 147gr lapua fmjbt which yields a bc of .647. I have successfully taken accurate shots out to 1500 yards with my ai260 remington. </div></div>
where do you find these Lapua 147gr fmjbt bullets?
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

I wouldnt worry about finding the old 147 or 144 FMJ. For those here that post all G1 BC I strongly suggest you buy the book. Ive had it for afew months now and have read through it quite afew times (if only I could remember it all!) The book does a great job of explaining the best/most accurate way to find the correct bullet for your needs (or your rifles) Think about it the book cost what $49? Thats less then a box of 100 projectiles, that without Mr. Litzs' book, might not even be what your really looking for. Not to mention the softwear that allows you too see how real world changes in BC/MV/Enviromentals ect effect your DOPE.

Another piece of advice FWIW, dont make the 6.5X47 something its not. Stick with the 123gr/130gr and be happy. Yes, you can shoot 140gr or 142gr but why? Keep the MV up and let the sleek little bullet do its job! Its not supposed to be a 6.5x284 look-a-like (140gr @ 3100 FPS) Keep the bullets around 2900-3000 FPS (123gr-130gr) and enjoy the longer barrel life that comes with it. Enjoy.
 
Re: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of Lapua 139gr Scenar?

graf and sons sells the old 147gr lapua bullets
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Litz. Try not to toss his numbers around here. There is a reason they are hidden in ballistics calculators...it's not free to get the info.

Josh </div></div>

WTF?
Please, let me hear the logic.
Miles </div></div>

The logic behind not showing the BC's in programs is related to copyright/IP. Plainly put, the experimentally determined BC's in my book comprise a great deal of the books value. If someone can buy a $10 app and have access to all those numbers, it could disincline many people from buying the book. I have an agreement with all the app developers who use my BC library. They're using it freely which enhances the accuracy/value of their apps. In exchange, they agree not to make the BC's visible which protects my IP and people are more encouraged to consider the book.

However, the point of having done all that work is to benefit shooters. I don't have a problem with guys sharing a few numbers relevant to a conversation; that's fine. I just don't want the whole list (or large parts of it) to be freely and easily available online.

On that note, I am making some bullet data available on my website as a sort of 'teaser' for the data contained in my book. You can see full data on a handful of bullets on my website:
Bullet Data

Regarding Lapua, good on them for stepping up and providing radar based G7 BC's for their bullets. For quite a while they had the radar data (Mach-CD data) available for download which was a tremendous resource. Problem was they were still listing G1 BC's that represented vastly different performance than what was reflected in the radar data. I think it's been about a year ago now that they re-assessed all their BC's to be in better alignment with their radar data, and also provided the BC's referenced to the G7 standard. These radar based G7 BC's are, for the most part, very similar to what I've assessed.

The performance I measured for the 6.5mm 123 Scenar is:
G1 BC: .519
G7 BC: .265
(both averaged from 3000 to 1500 fps)

Lapua has this bullet at G1: .527 and G7: .263. Odd that one's + and one's -, but we're talking about 1.5% difference in the G1 and 0.8% difference for the G7. So Lapua and I are practically representing the same performance. I suspect the larger difference in the G1 comes from velocity dependence (we probably averaged over different speed bands). The G7 BC of .263/.265 is the number I would use.

An added note, the 6.5mm 139 gr Scenars that I tested had a slightly larger than average meplat/tips (.076" diameter, whereas the 108 and 123's I tested had meplat's of .064 and .061). Point is that my assessed performance for the 139 may be a little lower than average if the average 139's have smaller meplat's.

Take care,
-Bryan

Hi Bryan,

I was searching for this subject and found your post above. I was wondering why my Shooter App showed what I thought was a incorrect BC for the Lapua 139 Scenar of .615 when Lapua lists it at .578. I've often wondered which should I pick, the standard bullet data from the library or the Litz version? Depending on the bullet manufacture and the load I'm using, I find one or the other to be more in line with actual bullet drop for my load. Is there a way to change the input data or any correction factor?

Thanks
 
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