Barrel break in. Too much?

Tactical30

Tactical30

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 5, 2009
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Eastern Ohio
#1
I had just put together a new AR style 6.5 Grendel build and put a Sabre Defense 18" Competition Deluxe bbl on it. Should I incorporate any type of break in on a AR rifle? I have a break in technique for my bolt actions but never really had a break in technique for an AR. Do you? I would think you should have some sort of break on any bbl thats new. When i put the rifle together I cleaned the barrel well with some Hoppes #9 wet patches and 1 time thru with a brush to get anything out that might of been sitting there( dont know how long it was on the shelf) and then a fine coat of Kroil oil for when it sitting around. I clean the oil out before I go shooting. I do this procedure to all my ARs. Too much? Im sure everyone is getting sick and tired of hearing about cleaning questions but I had to add one. Sorry. Thanks
 
#2
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

If you read enough you will find that there are many differences in opinion when it comes to break in. Personally I do not believe in barrel brake in- just shoot it. As for an AR platform I would say just shoot it wet.
 
#5
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

I don't know if I beleive barrel break-in works or not. I do think some people take it too far and damage the throats of their rifles. What you have done sounds good for cleaning and storage. Some people get into some of the more abrasive stuff like bore paste/powder. I dont know about all that. I know alot of custom barrels now days come hand lapped and require little to no break in what so ever. Maybe 15 or 20 fire lapping rounds and after that your good. I do think that some of the lower quality or factory barrels(not that factory barrels are not good, just usally aren't as nice as custom barrels) that are not hand lapped from the barrel maker may need more attention from a brush and patches. Just my opinion from what I have seen/experienced.
 
#6
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

Break in applies to anything where you have a piston and cylinder relationship with tight tolerances. Why wouldn't you do it? It makes sense to me. Break in will help prevent any irregular formation left in the barrell after manufacturing from becoming a permanent issue as the piston moves down the cylinder ie bullet and barrell. I reckon its more or less prevention. But no doubt a rod scuff can be just as damaging to the cylinder wall or throat.
 
#7
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

Yes. Break-in occurs whenever such tolerances and forces are involved.

I think it's a matter of whether the process can render improved results through employing a discrete strategy or technique. I think that employing a strategy does indeed alter the outcome, but I just as clearly believe that what the strategy will render early on will subsequently also occur further on without the strategy.

IMHO it's a matter of deliberate control vs patience. There may also be a small penalty in terms of throat wear if abrasives are employed. Throats need some wear-in, and I think that getting it done sooner has benefits that pay off in fewer rounds being expended before throat wear-in ceases to affect accuracy. But I also think we're only talking about 20-50, or at most 100 rounds worth of difference.

My view goes beyond break-in, to how the rifle is employed. With a new rifle, I'm usually fireforming for the first 50 or 100 shots anyway, and I also believe that if a shot is to be fired, it should be fired with deliberate attention to accuracy. Often, I'm already into the ladder testing phase of load development as well. Anything less than diligent attention to accuracy is a waste of components and bore life. By the time those 50 or 100 shots have been fired, whether I adhere to a break-in/cleaning regimen or not, that bore is broken in anyway. And you can also believe that bore will be scrubbed utterly clean afterward, if not before.

The most important cleaning, IMHO, is before the first shot is fired. The stuff I get out on those first few patches is usually amazing, and sometimes downright alarming.

Greg
 
#8
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had just put together a new AR style 6.5 Grendel build and put a Sabre Defense 18" Competition Deluxe bbl on it. Should I incorporate any type of break in on a AR rifle? I have a break in technique for my bolt actions but never really had a break in technique for an AR. Do you? I would think you should have some sort of break on any bbl thats new. When i put the rifle together I cleaned the barrel well with some Hoppes #9 wet patches and 1 time thru with a brush to get anything out that might of been sitting there( dont know how long it was on the shelf) and then a fine coat of Kroil oil for when it sitting around. I clean the oil out before I go shooting. I do this procedure to all my ARs. Too much? Im sure everyone is getting sick and tired of hearing about cleaning questions but I had to add one. Sorry. Thanks </div></div>



Like the rest of the fellas said....Pure myth.
Heres my break in procedure.
1-buy 1 case of gmm start shooting.I keep shooting untill accuracy starts falling off usually about 575 to 600 rounds.
2 run a soaked patch with shooters choice down the barrel about 5 times(new patch each time),and last 4 or 5 dry patches...........Thats it......easy as pie and simple as hell.
 
#11
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

how do you get the copper out.... shooters choice doesnt remove copper. fouling yes... copper, no.

I use butches bore shine... no ammonia involved.... works great... but i have a bottle of cr-10 as a backup....

copper is a problem that must be removed.. affects overall accuracy
 
#12
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

Break-in is relevant to all barrels: It occurs as you fire rounds through the barrel. It is only necessary, as a process, on some barrels.

Copper build-up, like any build-up, affects accuracy, but it does not have to be removed to achieve greatest accuracy. In fact, the opposite is true: copper fouling (like Moly) may be necessary in some rifles to achieve a stable zero and greatest accuracy. For those of you who love to remove copper, keep in mind that a .308 will not become a .284 due to lack of copper removal.
 
#13
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STRICK9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Break in applies to anything where you have a piston and cylinder relationship with tight tolerances. Why wouldn't you do it? It makes sense to me. Break in will help prevent any irregular formation left in the barrell after manufacturing from becoming a permanent issue as the piston moves down the cylinder ie bullet and barrell. I reckon its more or less prevention. But no doubt a rod scuff can be just as damaging to the cylinder wall or throat. </div></div>

so what exactly is the difference between shooting 100 rounds out of a new barrel then cleaning vs. shooting one round then cleaning for 100 rounds (or how ever many rounds you feel it takes to "break in" a barrel).
 
#14
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L.A. Lawman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get the copper out.... shooters choice doesnt remove copper. fouling yes... copper, no.

I use butches bore shine... no ammonia involved.... works great... but i have a bottle of cr-10 as a backup....

copper is a problem that must be removed.. affects overall accuracy </div></div>

LA,

I use Boretech solution, push thru from breech to muzzle with a brass jag. This stuff works pretty good for copper, I shoot a lot of Barnes TXS and MRX, I find out a lot of stuff comes out early, not so much later. I usually don't clean after break in - a good smooth barrel doesn't catch much. Leave a film of oil in barrel afterwards, then a dry patch before shooting.

You do more harm than good with the bore paste if the barrel is already smooth. Harm to me being lower barrel life, and no detectable change in accuracy.
 
#15
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

I have been through many premium benchrest barrels and have always broke them in,,, and I can tell you through experience that it helps reduce fouling down the road. You will see the fouling (copper and powder fouling) reduce while completing the break in. Then again, I don't break in my AR 223 barrels,,, lazy i guess.

I now use bore-tech eliminator for all general cleaning and TM solution when I want super clean barrel. Let the TM solution set over night in barrel and watch the crap com out the next day. I only use bronze brushed and have seen many synthetic brushed barrels (through bore scope) that have lots of shiny carbon build up that will not be removed with synthetic.

I do know guys that don't do the break in process and their guns still shoot so whatever floats your boat I guess. You still have to clean to maintain high accuracy now how much seems to depend on the barrel.

I recently am doing melonite treating on my barrels which drasically reduces fouling. My melonite treating contact recomends a broke in barrel before getting the process done.

To each there own I guess.
 
#16
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

There is a break in in every barrel used. I dont suggest that people shoot and clean every shoot for the first 20 rounds but for the first 50 or so i suggest just keeping a close eye on it and runs some patches and see how much it coppers up. If you get a bunch of copper after the first few shots clean it and shoot a few more. It will stop coppering up after so many rounds and it all depends on each and every single barrel. They will all be different. After 50-100 rounds the coppering should stop and just shoot it until the accuracy goes away. I do this for my smaller calibers and hunting stuff. The BR stuff is a way different story. All depends on what you expect out of the rifle. 308's are in a different class then most rifles cause most of the just dont copper up that bad. But you start shooting big bores and hot wildcats you better keep a close eye on the copper. Cause it will copper up more.
 
#17
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L.A. Lawman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get the copper out.... shooters choice doesnt remove copper. fouling yes... copper, no.

I use butches bore shine... no ammonia involved.... works great... but i have a bottle of cr-10 as a backup....

copper is a problem that must be removed.. affects overall accuracy </div></div>


If its there it needs to be there........
 
#18
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L.A. Lawman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you get the copper out.... shooters choice doesnt remove copper. fouling yes... copper, no.

I use butches bore shine... no ammonia involved.... works great... but i have a bottle of cr-10 as a backup....

copper is a problem that must be removed.. affects overall accuracy </div></div>

Shooters Choice most certainly removes copper along with other fouling.

I used it until I found Butch's just a wee bit better and switched. I will use SC as a backup if I can't find Butch's.
 
#19
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

Not one person on this thread mentioned the importance of a good bore guide. I suspect most use one but that others just don't think it matters. If you ever used a bore scope to compare the throat of a barrel where a bore guide has been used during cleaning with a barrel that has not used a bore guide you would make certain you use a bore guide.

FWIW, Benchresters go through a lot of barrels for a lot of different reasons but I have never known one that does not clean their barrels religiously.

I wonder if having a chrome lined barrel as many AR15's do makes a difference in the need to clean. I clean mine at the end of the day usually 100 rounds, but I clean my bolt actions every 20-25 rounds.
 
#20
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LarryB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not one person on this thread mentioned the importance of a good bore guide. I suspect most use one but that others just don't think it matters. If you ever used a bore scope to compare the throat of a barrel where a bore guide has been used during cleaning with a barrel that has not used a bore guide you would make certain you use a bore guide.

FWIW, Benchresters go through a lot of barrels for a lot of different reasons but I have never known one that does not clean their barrels religiously.

I wonder if having a chrome lined barrel as many AR15's do makes a difference in the need to clean. I clean mine at the end of the day usually 100 rounds, but I clean my bolt actions every 20-25 rounds. </div></div>

Larry, no one mentioned using a bore brush either but I think most people here know that using a bore guide is a given.
 
#21
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

Last night I did a cleaning after about 600 rounds of no cleaning. I did see accuracy dropping off last 100-150 rounds. I ran a soaked Butches patch came out very black with blue. Let sit for 5 minutes. Wet with Butches nylon brush 12 times. Butches soaked patch that came out black with lots of blue. Another Butches soaked patch that came out dark gray with some blue. Dry patch came out medium gray. Another wet came out gray and then 4 dry patches until last one had very little to almost no color. Patch of Butches bore oil down the barrel. Barrel has been cleaned only 2 times before and has 1200 rounds down the tube and never broken in other than bullets down the barrel. With no break in, it cleans quite easy. With no break in, rifle will group .5moa five shots. Cleaning and break in may help others, but I cannot see how break in would have made mine easier to clean or more accurate. The less times a cleaning rod goes down the barrel the less likely I nick the crown or throat or something.

My $.02
 
#23
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

I think that break in being an urban myth, is an urban myth. How many more barrels would Tim North sell because of break in? Very damn few. And on that note. I trust Tim's opinion on barrels a lot more than someone who never cleans there gun and claims it shoots great. Look at it this way, I have a chevy gas burner with 330,000 miles on it. It's probably had 6 oil changes in its life and still wears the original spark plugs. Now just because it still runs does that make oil changes an urban myth created by GM in the hopes that you'd forget the oil, ruin the motor, and have to buy another car? I doubt it.
 
#24
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that break in being an urban myth, is an urban myth. How many more barrels would Tim North sell because of break in? Very damn few. And on that note. I trust Tim's opinion on barrels a lot more than someone who never cleans there gun and claims it shoots great. Look at it this way, I have a chevy gas burner with 330,000 miles on it. It's probably had 6 oil changes in its life and still wears the original spark plugs. Now just because it still runs does that make oil changes an urban myth created by GM in the hopes that you'd forget the oil, ruin the motor, and have to buy another car? I doubt it. </div></div>

so please explain what cleaning a bore after each shot does differently than shooting the same amount of rounds and then cleaning? i shoot a broughton barrel, did no break in routine, went about 500 rounds before cleaning and still get no copper out of it. it still shoots great 1250 rounds later. my broughton barrel didn't come with any break in instructions nor do i see any break in recommendations on their site. why is that? could it be that break in is an opinion and no one has published actual facts on the benefits?
 
#25
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that break in being an urban myth, is an urban myth. How many more barrels would Tim North sell because of break in? Very damn few. And on that note. I trust Tim's opinion on barrels a lot more than someone who never cleans there gun and claims it shoots great. Look at it this way, I have a chevy gas burner with 330,000 miles on it. It's probably had 6 oil changes in its life and still wears the original spark plugs. Now just because it still runs does that make oil changes an urban myth created by GM in the hopes that you'd forget the oil, ruin the motor, and have to buy another car? I doubt it. </div></div>The following is a quote by Gale McMillan from another forum. Given the fact that McMillan is a pretty well respected Manufacturer, might be a little truth behind it...
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in"
 
#26
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

It's nice to know that someone agrees with me. Read the second line; and is there anyone out there that can answer my question about chrome-lined barrels.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evilaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LarryB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not one person on this thread mentioned the importance of a good bore guide. I suspect most use one but that others just don't think it matters. If you ever used a bore scope to compare the throat of a barrel where a bore guide has been used during cleaning with a barrel that has not used a bore guide you would make certain you use a bore guide.

FWIW, Benchresters go through a lot of barrels for a lot of different reasons but I have never known one that does not clean their barrels religiously.

I wonder if having a chrome lined barrel as many AR15's do makes a difference in the need to clean. I clean mine at the end of the day usually 100 rounds, but I clean my bolt actions every 20-25 rounds. </div></div>

Larry, no one mentioned using a bore brush either but I think most people here know that using a bore guide is a given. </div></div>
 
#27
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

I find it hard to believe that much break in if any is needed for a custom hand lapped barrel. They are already smoothed to perfection (or at least really good) Now a factory remington barrel I can see where they could use a Tubbs finish kit or something.

One thing to probably note about Gale McMillan is he shot handlapped barrels that were probably as smooth as they would ever get right from the get go. Some of these factory barrels that are not handlapped are not going to be anywhere near that smooth.

I ran one of the tubb kits through my 700 VS barrel and after the fact I could shoot about 60 rounds vs the 35 or so before I saw an accuracy decrease. It did not seem to copper foul quite as much either. But it still took a lot of work to get it all out.

When I got my Lilja barrel I did do the break in per the instructions so I have no idea if it really made a difference or not. One thing I do know is that barrel does not copper foul at all. I put over 300 rounds through it once between cleanings and there was no color on my patches with my copper solvent. And accuracy was still well under 1 moa. That alone is worth the money for a hand lapped barrel in my book.
 
#28
Re: Barrel break in. Too much?

If you pay someone north of $500 for a match-grade barrel or $1500+ for a match-grade rifle and it comes with imperfections in the bore, you should kick the manufacturer in the scrote. Barrel break-in is hogwash.
 
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