- Thread starter jinxx4ever
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Break in is a waste of resources. Shoot it.....
I haven’t seen that video in quite awhile. Nobody breaks them in right.
I haven’t broken mine in but I don’t think AI’s come with cow barrels. Pretty sure it is a bull barrel as it was shooting sub MOA groups in its first 20rds.
Even though i'm pretty fresh on this forum, I'm just going to leave this here. 
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/objective-research-on-barrel-break-in-procedures.27321/
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/objective-research-on-barrel-break-in-procedures.27321/
If you are in a big hurry to toss the barrel and get a new one use a bore snake. Bore snakes ruin crowns.
This has been rehashed so many times it's a waste of time to discuss and to do. For top tier quality barrels, barrel break in is a colossal waste of time, ammo, and barrel life. Take it out and shoot it. Clean it after the 1st shooting session if it makes you feel better and you're done.
I've tried break in procedures, and just shooting. I havent found a difference in the end. Barrels definitely break in and shoot better, but cleaning between shots doesn't make a difference.
thanks for the imput, forgot about searching for this topic. Didn't mean to waste anyone's time.
In all honesty if you have rifle with factory barrel like a savage or Remington using Tubbs final finish on it to fire lap the barrel may help smooth it out. It helped the savage I had years ago.
If you have a rifle with a hand lapped match grade barrel it’s a waste of barrel life.
If you have a rifle with a hand lapped match grade barrel it’s a waste of barrel life.
I did it recently for my Howa 1500 '"just because".
I can't imagine that it made any difference at all.
I can't imagine that it made any difference at all.
I used to be anal about it. Now I just shoot 100 rounds and give it a really good cleaning. Clean again at 250 then just shoot like normal. I try and clean only every 400-500 rounds otherwise.
bullshit....youd really gotta go full retard to ruin a crown with a boresnake.....
also, should somehow you actually ruin the crown.....it takes like 30 seconds to refresh a crown on a rifle.
Most shooters never know what happened to their accuracy when they increase the radius on one side of the crown, so they do not know what to do to get it back. Every single time I have seen a shooter use a bore snake they have either (1) pulled it from the muzzle to the chamber, letting it hang from the muzzle thus putting the weight of the snake and its abrasive on one edge of the crown or (2) Pulled it from the chamber to the muzzle, but they are always pulling (at least somewhat) off axis to the bore, thus contributing to uneven wear of the crown.
While I respect your ability to work around these issues, most shooters using bore snakes are not ever aware of them. Most members of the snipers hide do not know how to redo their own crown. You might have that knowledge and the necessary equipment and leisure time but I assure you that most do not.
It would take me much longer than 30 seconds to redo a crown. I would need to remove the barrel chuck it in a lathe in a four jaw (taking care not to mar the barrel) then recut the crown, then reinstall the barrel. That sounds like hours of meticulous work to me. I do not know any way to do it more quickly. If you mention dremel I will loose all respect for you.
I don't think someone can go full retard hard enough to damage a barrel made of relatively hard steel (very hard if it's been nitride or the bore chrome plated) with a fucking rope with some bronze bristles on it. The gun world is full of just plain stupid "common knowledge" that won't go away.
4140 pre-hardened is on average 30 points on the Rockwell C scale. Double that on the surface if it's been nitrided
Hard temper phosphor bronze is around 90 Rockwell B scale, which is so soft it doesn't even register on the C scale (which goes no lower than 15)
The people who claim that barrels are ruined by cleaning must be using rat tail files to clean their barrels.......
no need to pull the barrel......just remove the barreled action and pop out the trigger group......chuck up the entired barreled action in the lathe and dial indicate to true
face and crown.....youre looking at like 30 mins max.
i crown all my rifles by cutting them at 90 degrees, and finish them with a brass lap and compound....
when i need to refresh a crown, i chuck up the lap in my drill and do it by hand.......THAT takes 30 seconds.
I have used a bore snake for years but I pull it from the chamber to the Crown. I don’t know anybody who would pull a bore snake the other way. Well I guess the uninformed?
Rub your dick on the barrel.
Has the same effect.
Has the same effect.
I found the absolute best break-in procedure a few years ago and have used it with all my rifles going forward.
It’s called, Boolits. Boolits simultaneously lap, fireclean and precision foul barrels without damaging crowns, chambers, bolts or sling studs. You can find Boolits anywhere guns are sold so they are easy to find and replace as needed.
Go get some Boolits and start breaking it in now!
It’s called, Boolits. Boolits simultaneously lap, fireclean and precision foul barrels without damaging crowns, chambers, bolts or sling studs. You can find Boolits anywhere guns are sold so they are easy to find and replace as needed.
Go get some Boolits and start breaking it in now!
I did barrel break in once and only once..that was enough of that for me. The second time around when I had my old remmy action rebarreled to 6br I ran three rounds of tubb's tms boolits (not the final finish) thru her and called it good for break in. That Bartlein barrel was one of if not the most accuarate, easiest to clean tubes I ever owned. I continued a regimen of three tms rounds every 3-400 rds and ended up with over 3500 rds of accurate life with that bbl with my loads averaging at 2880fps up till near the end.
I follow the same process now with all my bbls, gas or bolt, as of late a Surgeon with another Bartlein. Seems to work for me so take it for what it is. YMMV.
I follow the same process now with all my bbls, gas or bolt, as of late a Surgeon with another Bartlein. Seems to work for me so take it for what it is. YMMV.
^^^ yep, the tubbs TMS works. I do that same process for all of my barrels now.
For a standard quality factory barrel I’d do the final finish kit, but only after putting a few rounds of quality match grade ammo through the gun just to make sure you’re starting with a halfway decent barrel. If it doesn’t shoot MOA or better out of the box it should go back to the manufacture for replacement without wasting your components on it.
For a standard quality factory barrel I’d do the final finish kit, but only after putting a few rounds of quality match grade ammo through the gun just to make sure you’re starting with a halfway decent barrel. If it doesn’t shoot MOA or better out of the box it should go back to the manufacture for replacement without wasting your components on it.
kreiger told me
1 shot 1 clean times 5
3 shots one clean times 5
5 shots one clean 3 times
Use Copper solvent bench rest cleaner by Hoppes #9
1 shot 1 clean times 5
3 shots one clean times 5
5 shots one clean 3 times
Use Copper solvent bench rest cleaner by Hoppes #9
D
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I shoot a box of factory ammo just to function test and get an approx zero then clean it before load work up.
I usually take 10 shots then clean with a cleaning rod then after 50 shots clean again to get rid of the copper in the barrel then clean again after 100 shots then after each range day I clean the barrel and it seems to work well
Explain why it works and how doing this and just running the barrel like normal differ.
Usually when you shoot in a new barrel the first rounds leave like a copper layer in the barrel and I’ve seen it because once I used my cleaning rod I saw at the end of the barrel the copper come out it was like a dust that came out
So, you have taken barrels and done this routine and barrels without this routine and seen an affect on accuracy?
No but a lot of people recommend this and I can see why this would affect accuracy because your barrel heats up and the copper makes a layer in your barrel and it won’t be consistent which will then have an affect on accuracy. If you think it’s pointless you don’t have to do it.
People who recommend barrel break in are people who make barrels and/or install them, on a new barrel I clean it before shooting, then whenever accuracy falls off
Those same people will tell you privately they only have recommended barrel break in procedures posted because it’s easier than telling 25 people a day not to worry about it.
Also, if you clean your barrel regularly, guess what......accuracy never falls off.
I’m just asking you to articulate why it works. As no one has been able to explain why barrel break in procedures work.
Also, if everyone’s individual procedure seems to work, that suggests that everything works and no such individual procedure matters.
Otherwise there would be tons of information out there showing how a non “broken in” barrel suffered compared to a broken in barrel.
To answer the question...
You can read above the disparity in opinion about break-in, and I've nothing to add about that here. Assuming you want to do it...
No, the Bore Snake will not do it. A carbon/copper cleaner is advisable, and I'd simply use Hoppe's #9 Bore Solvent.
Apply it to the bore and give it a few minutes to work. Patch it back out and examine the first patch for blue or green tint indicating that copper got removed. As long as there's definite color, continue to clean after each shot, but don't go beyond ten shots/ cycles. Understand that brass/bronze implements in contact with the wet patch will invalidate any color indications. Clean after each of the next two sets of five shots, then live with it after that. The balance is between getting the initial throat wear accomplished, and stopping before overall bore life gets impacted. Understand that leaving some copper in the bore can be beneficial, and that strenuous cleaning is probably worse than no cleaning.
What I'm saying is that a box of 20rd is enough. More than that is probably doing the dubious; and this is coming from a formerly heavily committed fan of bore break-in.
IMHO, you could skip the whole process, and the Sun would still continue to rise in the East just fine.
Greg
Post crossed. Articulating. I seriously doubt that the passage of a copper projectile through a steel bore is going to make any significant change in the interior surface. Likewise, forget about the brush being an abrasive agent; the barrel just laughs at it. It's true value is in its ability to get the solvent down into the groove and a nylon brush does this equally well; the grand majority of the cleaning work is done by the solvent and time, after which the brush sweeps out whatever got loosened. Rinse the brush each time it comes back out; I use rubbing alcohol.
The two (maybe more) active wear agents would be hot gasses in the bore throat and abrasive components in the powder residues. These two agents can combine with the passing copper projectile to perform some lapping in the throat area, and to a smaller degree, on the bore surface. The bullet is just a somewhat more sophisticated version of the lead lapping slug. Some of the former wear is desirable, and the second is probably a barely nominal benefit. It's my opinion that this is all something that will simply happen anyway during normal usage and cleaning, just slower without the deliberate effort. Cleaning should take place when an undeniable degradation of accuracy becomes obvious, as well as when putting the firearm away and taking it back out of longer term storage storage. IMHO, any process that 'wastes' round count in a bore should be avoided.
I also believe that the first 50 or 100rd through a new barrel should be dedicated toward fire forming the handloading brass; and that it's better to get that hundred or so rounds fired before beginning serious load development. If interior bore conditions are indeed altering during the initial usage, saving the load development until a respectable number of rounds worth will probably better validate the load development process.
My use of the term "probably" is deliberate. All barrels are unique, and the difference is not just between match and factory barrels. Rather than going into the hows and whys, I'll simply say that when you spend more on a barrel, it's worth it.
You can read above the disparity in opinion about break-in, and I've nothing to add about that here. Assuming you want to do it...
No, the Bore Snake will not do it. A carbon/copper cleaner is advisable, and I'd simply use Hoppe's #9 Bore Solvent.
Apply it to the bore and give it a few minutes to work. Patch it back out and examine the first patch for blue or green tint indicating that copper got removed. As long as there's definite color, continue to clean after each shot, but don't go beyond ten shots/ cycles. Understand that brass/bronze implements in contact with the wet patch will invalidate any color indications. Clean after each of the next two sets of five shots, then live with it after that. The balance is between getting the initial throat wear accomplished, and stopping before overall bore life gets impacted. Understand that leaving some copper in the bore can be beneficial, and that strenuous cleaning is probably worse than no cleaning.
What I'm saying is that a box of 20rd is enough. More than that is probably doing the dubious; and this is coming from a formerly heavily committed fan of bore break-in.
IMHO, you could skip the whole process, and the Sun would still continue to rise in the East just fine.
Greg
Post crossed. Articulating. I seriously doubt that the passage of a copper projectile through a steel bore is going to make any significant change in the interior surface. Likewise, forget about the brush being an abrasive agent; the barrel just laughs at it. It's true value is in its ability to get the solvent down into the groove and a nylon brush does this equally well; the grand majority of the cleaning work is done by the solvent and time, after which the brush sweeps out whatever got loosened. Rinse the brush each time it comes back out; I use rubbing alcohol.
The two (maybe more) active wear agents would be hot gasses in the bore throat and abrasive components in the powder residues. These two agents can combine with the passing copper projectile to perform some lapping in the throat area, and to a smaller degree, on the bore surface. The bullet is just a somewhat more sophisticated version of the lead lapping slug. Some of the former wear is desirable, and the second is probably a barely nominal benefit. It's my opinion that this is all something that will simply happen anyway during normal usage and cleaning, just slower without the deliberate effort. Cleaning should take place when an undeniable degradation of accuracy becomes obvious, as well as when putting the firearm away and taking it back out of longer term storage storage. IMHO, any process that 'wastes' round count in a bore should be avoided.
I also believe that the first 50 or 100rd through a new barrel should be dedicated toward fire forming the handloading brass; and that it's better to get that hundred or so rounds fired before beginning serious load development. If interior bore conditions are indeed altering during the initial usage, saving the load development until a respectable number of rounds worth will probably better validate the load development process.
My use of the term "probably" is deliberate. All barrels are unique, and the difference is not just between match and factory barrels. Rather than going into the hows and whys, I'll simply say that when you spend more on a barrel, it's worth it.
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Pro tip: you aren’t going to make a barrel more accurate by excessively cleaning it.
Hell, Shillen basically states “we have a barrel break in procedure because people ask for one, not because we recommend it”
Hell, Shillen basically states “we have a barrel break in procedure because people ask for one, not because we recommend it”
I think the argument can be made that a break in procedure for very poorly made barrels with lots of inclusions and burrs COULD benefit, but that the same time, just shooting the fucking thing is going to knock down the burs and smooth everything out anyway.
You are still shooting ammo so its not like your saving any money. You are just wasting time and money cleaning, with no real benefit. I would rather knock out the 100-200 rounds quickly so I could get to actual work with more accurate DOPE and velocities.
I think a better option is to use cheap ammo for the first 200 rounds. You aren't going to see the best accuracy potential until then anyway with most barrels.
For example with a 6.5CM, you can use S&B 140gr for $13/box. It will save you about $70-150 over the first 200 shots. Then you can work on load development or shoot premium ammo. This is just theoretical, most barrels wont need.
You are still shooting ammo so its not like your saving any money. You are just wasting time and money cleaning, with no real benefit. I would rather knock out the 100-200 rounds quickly so I could get to actual work with more accurate DOPE and velocities.
I think a better option is to use cheap ammo for the first 200 rounds. You aren't going to see the best accuracy potential until then anyway with most barrels.
For example with a 6.5CM, you can use S&B 140gr for $13/box. It will save you about $70-150 over the first 200 shots. Then you can work on load development or shoot premium ammo. This is just theoretical, most barrels wont need.
Cleaning a barrel after each range day seems excessive and unnecessary. Most guys who shoot a lot will tell after whatever your break in routine is, only clean it every few hundred or when accuracy drops. Or whichever comes first. I’ve never heard of a barrel having problems from cleaning too little. However I’ve heard often that over cleaning can be deleterious.
Simplest answer. Many thanks to @TheGerman for originally posting this.
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