I had read in a couple of different threads that rapid fire in a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel. Is there some "rules of thumb" to how much or how fast you can shoot a match barrel? Thanks!
- Thread starter Little Bill
- Start date
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
I wouldn't believe everything you read.
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It really depends on what you are shooting, load wise, but old "rules of thumb" are often not very useful. Most people are not shooting fast enough, or long enough to matter much.
I wouldn't believe everything you read.
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It really depends on what you are shooting, load wise, but old "rules of thumb" are often not very useful. Most people are not shooting fast enough, or long enough to matter much.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Thanks LL. I was thinking that, but I could not find any data. I am getting a GAP AR10 with a Bartlein, and I don't want to do anything to harm it...but I plan on shooting it, at sniper matches and 3-gun. The 3-gun is where there will be some "hosing". I am (still) using factory 168 FGMM. (I will probably use some other factory 308 for the hosing.)
BTW - You need to "hire" a better camera guy...
Thanks LL. I was thinking that, but I could not find any data. I am getting a GAP AR10 with a Bartlein, and I don't want to do anything to harm it...but I plan on shooting it, at sniper matches and 3-gun. The 3-gun is where there will be some "hosing". I am (still) using factory 168 FGMM. (I will probably use some other factory 308 for the hosing.)
BTW - You need to "hire" a better camera guy...
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
harm...are you kidding me???? shoot the freaking gun, clean it and repeat. you will cause more damage to a barrel from cleaning from the crown to the breach then anything else...or for that matter dragging a bore brush back down the barrel after making a pass. I understand your spending some serious coin...but your not going to hurt that gun by shooting it fast...
harm...are you kidding me???? shoot the freaking gun, clean it and repeat. you will cause more damage to a barrel from cleaning from the crown to the breach then anything else...or for that matter dragging a bore brush back down the barrel after making a pass. I understand your spending some serious coin...but your not going to hurt that gun by shooting it fast...
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Rapid fire does burn out barrels, I carry a throat erosion gage for my M1A just for that.
Now in reality, rapid fire in HP isnt really that bad, its something you have to put up with, cant be helped.
BUT: the Infantry Trophy Match is a bit differant, it is hard on barrels. When I shot for the guard, I had a seperate gun for the ITT. I saved my Heavy Match M1A for the NMC, but used a guard NM M14 for the ITT, I felt better using guard funds rebuilding guard rifles then using them on my private firearm.
Throat erosion gages are ok, but I've found the barrel goes before it shows up on the gage. I used the 300 Rapid fire targets to tell if my barrel is going. I figured any one or gun can slop them in at 200 yards, at 600 its more about the shooters ability to judge conditions. The 300 yard range really test the gun and barrel.
Rapid fire does burn out barrels, I carry a throat erosion gage for my M1A just for that.
Now in reality, rapid fire in HP isnt really that bad, its something you have to put up with, cant be helped.
BUT: the Infantry Trophy Match is a bit differant, it is hard on barrels. When I shot for the guard, I had a seperate gun for the ITT. I saved my Heavy Match M1A for the NMC, but used a guard NM M14 for the ITT, I felt better using guard funds rebuilding guard rifles then using them on my private firearm.
Throat erosion gages are ok, but I've found the barrel goes before it shows up on the gage. I used the 300 Rapid fire targets to tell if my barrel is going. I figured any one or gun can slop them in at 200 yards, at 600 its more about the shooters ability to judge conditions. The 300 yard range really test the gun and barrel.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Ok. So kraigWY says that rapid fire is hard on barrels? I am talking 20 rounds in 10-20 seconds.
Ok. So kraigWY says that rapid fire is hard on barrels? I am talking 20 rounds in 10-20 seconds.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Heat is an enemy of steel. But as stated above, cleaning damages more barrels than use.
Heat is an enemy of steel. But as stated above, cleaning damages more barrels than use.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Watching your video with Kansas (Dust in the Wind) playing in the background; brings tears to my eyes.
Watching your video with Kansas (Dust in the Wind) playing in the background; brings tears to my eyes.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
<span style="font-style: italic">Improper</span> cleaning does damage.
To do it right, a rod guide is needed, and it needs to fit the rod snug. Rods and guide tips are available in a couple of diameters, and unless the tip matches the rod diameter and prevents more than minimal of lateral slop, it's essentially ineffective.
That slop allows rod contact with the bore and throat, and causes the cleaning damage to which the no-clean clan refers.
This is compounded by the presence of grit and hard particles, similar to glass, which result from primer combustion and other propellant combustion processes, being suspended in contaminated solvent. They convert the rod into a bore lap. When I clean a bore, I wipe down the rod each and every time it exits the bore. It doesn't resolve the issue, but it helps. These are just some of the things being pushed around inside a dirty bore.
Seriously, if folks want to discontinue or diminish their bore cleaning, I won't critcise them. Many do fine.
I only suggest that issues like erosion, pitting, and bore corrosion are real, and that shooting and arbitrarily imposing extended time between cleanings is not my idea of good firearm maintenance.
But then again, I'm a Marine, and everyone knows we're just a pack of anal Neanderthal gun cleaners...
Greg
<span style="font-style: italic">Improper</span> cleaning does damage.
To do it right, a rod guide is needed, and it needs to fit the rod snug. Rods and guide tips are available in a couple of diameters, and unless the tip matches the rod diameter and prevents more than minimal of lateral slop, it's essentially ineffective.
That slop allows rod contact with the bore and throat, and causes the cleaning damage to which the no-clean clan refers.
This is compounded by the presence of grit and hard particles, similar to glass, which result from primer combustion and other propellant combustion processes, being suspended in contaminated solvent. They convert the rod into a bore lap. When I clean a bore, I wipe down the rod each and every time it exits the bore. It doesn't resolve the issue, but it helps. These are just some of the things being pushed around inside a dirty bore.
Seriously, if folks want to discontinue or diminish their bore cleaning, I won't critcise them. Many do fine.
I only suggest that issues like erosion, pitting, and bore corrosion are real, and that shooting and arbitrarily imposing extended time between cleanings is not my idea of good firearm maintenance.
But then again, I'm a Marine, and everyone knows we're just a pack of anal Neanderthal gun cleaners...
Greg
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Little Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had read in a couple of different threads that rapid fire in a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel. Is there some "rules of thumb" to how much or how fast you can shoot a match barrel? Thanks! </div></div>
Cleaning a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel fast is detrimental to the barrel.
If you are worried about hurting the barrel, slap some cosmo in the bore and hang it on the wall.
Rarely do I have a shooting session where rapid fire is not implemented. Time is a great way to induce stress on the shooter. When I burn out the barrel it will get replaced. Barrels are disposable. They are but a means to an end. Don't get attached to them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Little Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had read in a couple of different threads that rapid fire in a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel. Is there some "rules of thumb" to how much or how fast you can shoot a match barrel? Thanks! </div></div>
Cleaning a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel fast is detrimental to the barrel.
If you are worried about hurting the barrel, slap some cosmo in the bore and hang it on the wall.
Rarely do I have a shooting session where rapid fire is not implemented. Time is a great way to induce stress on the shooter. When I burn out the barrel it will get replaced. Barrels are disposable. They are but a means to an end. Don't get attached to them.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
Buy a 2nd upper and use that for rapid 3 gun etc if you're worried about wearing out the GAP one.
Buy a 2nd upper and use that for rapid 3 gun etc if you're worried about wearing out the GAP one.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
I had over 10,000 rounds down the tube of my Clint Fowler- kreiger m1 shooting 2800 fps 30.06..the gun would still hold sub moa using ball ammo.....I lost count how many rapid fire 3 position matches I have shot with this rifle over the past 20 years......
shoot the gun, clean and repeat....you will more then likely grow tired of the gun long before you burn out the barrel....now if it shooting some 4000+ fps round from a wildcat or old stand bay like the swift....yeah...1-2k rounds and its time for a new barrel....but hey isnt that the fun part about our sport? I mean when was the last time you walked into someones house and they had a bucket filled with shot out barrels????
I had over 10,000 rounds down the tube of my Clint Fowler- kreiger m1 shooting 2800 fps 30.06..the gun would still hold sub moa using ball ammo.....I lost count how many rapid fire 3 position matches I have shot with this rifle over the past 20 years......
shoot the gun, clean and repeat....you will more then likely grow tired of the gun long before you burn out the barrel....now if it shooting some 4000+ fps round from a wildcat or old stand bay like the swift....yeah...1-2k rounds and its time for a new barrel....but hey isnt that the fun part about our sport? I mean when was the last time you walked into someones house and they had a bucket filled with shot out barrels????
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
The throat area is what take a beating. Small diameter bullets driven at high velocity makes more erosion in the throat. Larger diameter bores seem to last longer than the smaller ones.I have a couple Krieger barrels (.308 M1 & .223 AR15) and both have been like a laser for accuracy and they are so smooooth any wear can be scope out easily.
The average shooter will never shoot out a barrel. I bet more are damaged with cleaning rods (crown) than by firing.
The throat area is what take a beating. Small diameter bullets driven at high velocity makes more erosion in the throat. Larger diameter bores seem to last longer than the smaller ones.I have a couple Krieger barrels (.308 M1 & .223 AR15) and both have been like a laser for accuracy and they are so smooooth any wear can be scope out easily.
The average shooter will never shoot out a barrel. I bet more are damaged with cleaning rods (crown) than by firing.
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Little Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had read in a couple of different threads that rapid fire in a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel. Is there some "rules of thumb" to how much or how fast you can shoot a match barrel? Thanks! </div></div>
Cleaning a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel fast is detrimental to the barrel.
If you are worried about hurting the barrel, slap some cosmo in the bore and hang it on the wall.
Rarely do I have a shooting session where rapid fire is not implemented. Time is a great way to induce stress on the shooter. When I burn out the barrel it will get replaced. Barrels are disposable. They are but a means to an end. Don't get attached to them. </div></div>
That is well put. I am hoping that the tube will last 5k-10k of hard use. I am a big believer of USING my guns and gear, with no fear of scratches, dents, and wear. I just didn't want to do something that would be stupid and avoidable. Thanks for the answers fellas!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Little Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had read in a couple of different threads that rapid fire in a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel. Is there some "rules of thumb" to how much or how fast you can shoot a match barrel? Thanks! </div></div>
Cleaning a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel is detrimental to the barrel.
Shooting a match grade barrel fast is detrimental to the barrel.
If you are worried about hurting the barrel, slap some cosmo in the bore and hang it on the wall.
Rarely do I have a shooting session where rapid fire is not implemented. Time is a great way to induce stress on the shooter. When I burn out the barrel it will get replaced. Barrels are disposable. They are but a means to an end. Don't get attached to them. </div></div>
That is well put. I am hoping that the tube will last 5k-10k of hard use. I am a big believer of USING my guns and gear, with no fear of scratches, dents, and wear. I just didn't want to do something that would be stupid and avoidable. Thanks for the answers fellas!
Re: Barrel Burn-Out
most people will never shoot out their barrels on an AR15. I;ve met guys that thought they shot out their barrel and it was actually an excuse for crappy shooting. There some serious guys here that might shootout barrels in ARs but the average guy will never come close. Have about 15,000 thru mine and it still shoot sub moa but it is chrome lined.
most people will never shoot out their barrels on an AR15. I;ve met guys that thought they shot out their barrel and it was actually an excuse for crappy shooting. There some serious guys here that might shootout barrels in ARs but the average guy will never come close. Have about 15,000 thru mine and it still shoot sub moa but it is chrome lined.
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