• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

F T/R Competition Barrel Contour for New Build?

HighRez

HighRez

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 19, 2011
229
0
North Georgia
Hello All,

At age 60, I'm new to LR rifle shooting and glad to find the F Class Forum. There seem to be some good folks here with good info (and toleration) for the inexperienced, so here goes.

I've been wanting to build a .284 Winchester for a while and figured I may as well do it to try some F Class shooting. I'm starting with a couple of components I already have. A SS Remington 700 Long Action, and a Manners T5A stock with their mini-chasis BM. My smith is about to place an order with Pac-Nor for a barrel. I've always been partial to the Sendero contour at 24" for tactical guns, but after doing some homework I'm thinking this may be too short and light for a good F Class gun.

Now I'm considering a #7 Straight Taper at 28". Any comments on contour, taper, length, fluting and any other considerations are very welcome as I head down this road. Feel free to chime in with opinions to avoid other pitfalls as well. Your experience is appreciated!

Bob
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

You'll be shooting in open class so you can go up to 22 lbs. Id go with a 1.25 straight tube if it was my build.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad from ND</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll be shooting in open class so you can go up to 22 lbs. Id go with a 1.25 straight tube if it was my build. </div></div>

Thanks Brad. A 1.25" straight barrel is obviously heavy. Is the object to avoid muzzle rise or heat dissipation or both?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Both. And it can way that much so why not? 30 inches is very common for open rigs too.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

All the barrel you can get and still make weight.

A 284 is going into F-open and I don't know what does and doesn't work there. In F-TR most all of us run heavy Palma but we have a 18.1 lb limit. F Open you get another 4 lbs so you can run something heavier.

So look at 32" or more inches and as heavy as will make the 22pound limit. Somewhere I saw someone write "Don't be afraid you're going to leave powder burns on the target".
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Thanks guys. This leads me to ask about fluting. The photos I see of F-Open guns seldom have fluting. Is the thinking that this is not necessary on these heavy barrels? I also see various devices on barrels and scopes to eliminate mirage from barrel heat.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Good information so far. Minumum 30 inches. The mirage band is VERY helpful. Sinclair sells an aluminum one with velcro in two different lengths (get the longer one). I think it sells for $4.95. (www.sinclairinlt.com)
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Highrez, I think there are two things at work with fluting, a big one is cost.

Flutes are going to add another $150 or so to your barrel. You're going to burn that barrel out in about 1200 rounds. So if you shoot just one match a month if it's like ours with 3x20 for record on Sat and 2x20 on Sunday you'll shoot 600 rounds for record in May - Oct. Add another 100 for load work, and some practice and you're burning up at least one a year. Shoot a few more comps and you better just order them 5 at a time. Now add fluting costs.

Second is that the general idea with flutes is that a fluted barrel is stiffer than an unfluted barrel <span style="text-decoration: underline">of the same weight,</span> but not as stiff as a heavier barrel of the same contour, so what are you really getting?

In the end I think it's that barrels are a consumable, and fluting is really more of an aesthetic than anything else.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30" is the norm. I have been seeing more 32" barrels lately though. Longer barrels can sometimes cause balance problems. I run a 30" straight 1.25" on my .284. </div></div>

A very good point about the balance problem ... which has crossed my mind. Remember I am going to start with the Manners T5A stock which is comes in at 4 pounds, lighter I expect than the laminated wooden stocks I'm seeing. I REALLY need to use this T5A (money already invested) so, what's the wise play? Go long and deal with balance, or try a better balance at say 28-30 inches? Thanks again.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

To shoot this in open go ahead and buy a dedicated stock, you're already hanging a truck axle on it for a barrel so any "practical" (non target shooting) use is pretty well done for. You aren't going to tote this anywhere other than the line.

Personally I went to Precision Rifle and Tool to get my TR stock.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

One of the guys I shoot with is running a .284 Shehane with a 30" straight 1.25" taper. His setup comes close to the weight limit, but is definitely under. My recollection is that he is getting around 2980 fps with 180 gr Berger VLDs and he does very, very well with that setup. The main reason I get a kick out of his rig is that the muzzle looks a lot like this:


petersburg_2_0002_smaller.jpg
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Based on what I've read, and the discussions I've had with other F-class Open guys, I decided on a Bartlein 30" #9 Heavy Varmint contour.

A - 1.250"
B - 5.000"
C - 0.900"
D - 31" (cut and crowned to 30")
Weight should be 8 lbs.

Straightgif.gif
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Thanks for all the valuable input, gentlemen. In thinking all this over, my quickest and most cost effective way into shooting F-Class is probably going to be F-TR shooting my .308. I'm thinking I may save my shekels for now on the .284 and when ready for F-Open do an all out build instead of trying to make the parts and pieces I already have work.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

One more question please. My understanding on F-TR rules is that it is for "un-modified" .308 and .223. I take this to mean modifications to .308 and .223 loadings and not modification to the firearm itself. In other words, a firearm is allowed to have an after market barrel, stock, etc. Correct? Thanks.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

AFAIK, Correct - only the cartridge may not be changed.
- Which may have implications for the chamber - that I don't know.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nimoz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AFAIK, Correct - only the cartridge may not be changed. </div></div>

Thanks Nimoz. I appreciate the confirmation.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

The rifle can be any assemblage of parts with a total weight of 18.18 pounds including the scope, rings, bipod (and sling if you use one.)

The chambering must be .308 Winchester, or .223 Remington, no AI or improved or any such thing. In .223 the leade will be longer than usual due to the use of long bullets, and the same will be found in the .308 rifles also. Just think of the case being regular .308 or .223.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

What are you talking about?







:) Thanks. I corrected it.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

OK, I know this thread is jumping around now, but while I have your appreciated attention ....

What's the best way to locate an F-TR Match? Would like to attend one within a reasonable drive of the Atlanta area before I actually go to shoot. Any of you guys in the Southeast have any suggestions?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

I have talked with a couple f guys who went F-O who are coming back to F-TR, The driving force is barrels. You can shoot a good TR barrel for two yrs, you don't have to worry about round count if a couple of guys want to do a little practice match, but in Open, you are lucky if you get a yr, and you have to watch round count.

I think the epiphany happens at the 3rd barrel,
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tansinator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Riversbend Just north of Atlanta
Chattanooga TN
Tullahoma TN
Oak Ridge TN

Just to name a few
</div></div>

Tansinator, I see you're up in Signal Mountain. What are the opportunities in Chattanooga? I'm only about an hour south.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the epiphany happens at the 3rd barrel, </div></div>

Or at about $1,500 to $2,000 if you include a smith's charges. Being new to rifle shooting, it's something I've never considered. Never shot out a shotgun barrel on sporting clays :) Thanks!
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

I would go 32 inches finished, that extra few fps that it buys can make a difference at 1000 yards, you only have to cut the scoring ring to get the extra point.That is of course if the extra length gives a velocity increase? I know it doesn't work for all calibers, but mine are all 32 inches.

My favourite contour is 1.250 straight tapered down to 1.000
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

If your smith is chargin $1000 to $1500 to swap barrel, you might want to look for another gunsmith.

Barrels are like tires (tyres for some here,) they are consumable, but some are consumed faster than others depending on how you drive the bullets or the car.

We shoot year round here and my current .308 barrel has a smidge over 3600 rounds through it and it still shoots very well. My F-opener friends usually by two or three barrels at a time and switch them around.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your smith is chargin $1000 to $1500 to swap barrel, you might want to look for another gunsmith.
</div></div>

I think he means $1000-$1500 over three barrels, which is about right, if not a little low ($300-350 a blank, $200+ or so to chamber and fit).
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

That makes more sense. BTW, good shooting last match; I hope to see you next month.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nhm16</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your smith is chargin $1000 to $1500 to swap barrel, you might want to look for another gunsmith.
</div></div>

I think he means $1000-$1500 over three barrels, which is about right, if not a little low ($300-350 a blank, $200+ or so to chamber and fit). </div></div>

Yep, that was my thinkin'. I'm lucky that I have an older "country" gunsmith close by. The gent really knows accurate rifles and only charges $150 to chamber and fit. After hearing all your input, I'm going to take my current bone stock Rem 700 .308 to him and have him true and tune the bolt/action and put on a 30" #7 Pac-Nor he has in stock. Total cost should be around $650, and the great part is a 3 week turnaround. Then I'll go F-TR shooting.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

I think that is a great plan. Do you have any idea what the twist rate on that barrel is? What bullet will you be using?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Not Tansinator but I'll try to help out too. Chattanooga Rifle Club (my home club) has four fullbore, mid-range (1x300 & 2x500) matches each year. Don't know that schedule is set in stone but for last few years (this year included) it's the first Sunday of the month in March, May, September and November. Website is Chattanoogarifleclub.org

Riverbend has a fair number of mid-range 3x600 matches throughout the year. Website is rbgc.org

Then there's Oak Ridge (orsahp.org) and Tullahoma if you don't mind driving a bit further. Both of these have mix of mid-range, Palma and long-range events. The matches at Tullahoma are held at Arnold Engineering and are run by Blue and Gray Rifle Club and/or Warren County Rifle Club.

If you decide you want to shoot a match in Oak Ridge or Tullahoma send me a PM. If I'm attending we might be able to car pool.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that is a great plan. Do you have any idea what the twist rate on that barrel is? What bullet will you be using? </div></div>

Besides being relatively new to rifles, I've just started handloading as well, so I'm biting off a big chunk at once :) I'd like to try the 175 SMK which I've heard is a great 1,000 yard bullet. Honestly I'm not sure of the twist on that Pac-Nor ... thanks for the reminder to check. All I have shot to this point in .308 is the FGMM in 168 gr. What twist is needed to keep the 175's stable?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

The 175SMK is a great 1000 yard bullet, if other competitors are using 168SMKs.

I would hope that your new barrel has a twist of at least 1:12. I like 1:11 myself for the bullets I use.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crewchef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide you want to shoot a match in Oak Ridge or Tullahoma send me a PM. If I'm attending we might be able to car pool. </div></div>

Thanks Crewchef! I'll take a look at those schedules and give you a shout to see what would work. Neither of those locations would be too far for me.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Actually, 175 SMKs are good to start loading with until you learn what you're doing with loading. I'm about to try Hornady 178s and see how they fly.

In general I shoot Berger 185 LRBTs in matches that "count." For practice I have been using the 175SMKs, I just got 500 of the Hornady 178s. The 175s and the 178s can both be found for about $30/100. The Bergers are more like $47/100, the difference adds up.

The Bergers do fly better.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

I'm with XTR. I shoot the 185 Berger Hybrids for "score" and the 175 SMKs for practice / fun. It was good advise that I got right here awhile back. The 185s perform very well, but they are certainly expensive.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, 175 SMKs are good to start loading with until you learn what you're doing with loading. </div></div>

How so? Are the Bergers somehow more difficult to develop a load, or is it an expense thing?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HighRez</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, 175 SMKs are good to start loading with until you learn what you're doing with loading. </div></div>

How so? Are the Bergers somehow more difficult to develop a load, or is it an expense thing? </div></div>

You missed the point of a couple of posts there. Bergers cost $47/100 Sierras or Hornadys cost $30/100. THat $17/box difference adds up if you don't have someone buying your bullets for you.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Roget that ... every bit of savings helps. If the Bergers should be my eventual goal for a match load, I want to make sure the barrel I put on my .308 will be suitable. What twist are guys shooting with the 185 Bergers?
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HighRez</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roget that ... every bit of savings helps. If the Bergers should be my eventual goal for a match load, I want to make sure the barrel I put on my .308 will be suitable. What twist are guys shooting with the 185 Bergers? </div></div>

Let me present a differing point of view on this bullet discussion.

Using one bullet for "practice" and another bullet for "score," in LR F-class is in my opinion and at least for me, sub-optimal for many reasons.

Practice Vs "Score":
I don't know about everyone else here, but I have very little occasion to practice shooting at 1000 yards in anything. I shoot in monthly matches year round and very seldom get to the range between these matches. My practice is done at matches. About the last thing I want to do when I do get a chance to practice is to use a different bullet than what I shoot in matches (for scores.) How will I ever learn to shoot well in matches if I practice with one bullet and compete with another? Why do I need to have two different scope settings? I'm not that smart.

Load development:
Tell me again why I want to develop two (or more) different loads for the same purpose (LR F-class)? That means I would have to run two different adjustments in my seater die and generate two drop charts. I would also have to learn windage corrections for two different bullets. I'm not that smart.

Logistics:
I would have to run two sets of cases; I want my cases to all experience the same loads. I would have to have two different bullets on hand and make sure I have the proper bullet loaded for the next event, practice or competition.

After sinking thousands for a rifle, scope and bipod, etc and going through all the work of load development, getting to and from the range (practice or match) and all the attendant expenses, saving 14 cents on a bullet is not my idea of a wise decision.

In my experience, the 175SMK has a ragged meplat and suffers from inconsistent ogive shape which leads to seating issues. It's a very viable bullet get to 1000 yards, but if you want to be competitive, you need to process (trim and point the meplat) and sort these bullets. My time is worth something to me and I would much rather spend the incremental amount of money and get bullets that I do not need to mess with and which perform well for me.

So, I developed one load. I have my scope settings for that load with that bullet and I just keep repeating the same load formula over and over again. I buy my bullets 1000 at a time from the same lot and life is simpler for me.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

Thanks Denys. Your points are well taken. I am very fortunate to have a field next to my home where I can shoot to 500 yards anytime I like. So, I usually shoot 20-30 rounds at least once a week at 500 yard steel to work on technique and build experience with windage. As you point out, considering the cost of everything else in this game, it wouldn't make a lot of sense for me two have 2 loads just to save that $4 or $5 a week for practice.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

I have a group that gets together for squadded practice every Monday.

My club shoots one or two matches a month, often I'm either the only F-TR shooter or there are one or two more. The only thing you win here is, well, you win.

Load development. As a new shooter he's probably going to buy 6 dies before he figures out what works for him. Neck tension, neck sizing, full length sizing, primers, yada yada. It is a learning process. Until you figure it all out the bullet is not that important.

Two scope setings? naa, unlimited sighters. I'll give you that the no wind zero may be different, but until most people shoot a couple of thousand rounds they don't use it, and unless you have a wind fishtailing across 6 or 12 oclock it doesn't matter anyway.

Why run 2 sets of cases? I load everything in WW. I load in 100 round batches. If the next load is Bergers what difference does it make?

As for meplats, Hell I point Bergers.

Wind calls, really, are you really good enough to tell the difference in 1.5 inches per MPH? That's theoretical, if someone was that good they'd have shot a 200 by now.

Seating issues are only an issue if you seat close to the lands, push it back 10 or 20 thou and don't worry about it.

Getting to the range, it's 25 minutes away. I don't travel to shoot.
 
Re: Barrel Contour for New Build?

For a 284 off of a Rem action I would go with a 30 inch HV taper. I think its been said already but all the flutes do is add unwanted cost to barrels that don't last that long anyway. Your 284 should go 2000 at least. I ran one to 2600 and it still had reasonable accuracy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Gunsmithing Re-contouring a barrel blank
Replies
29
Views
2K
Yondering
Y
P
Ace barrels
Replies
9
Views
1K
PRSDietitian
P
Heston McBride
New Rifle Build - 6.5 PRC or 300 WSM.. or others?
Replies
11
Views
1K
2c1fr
2
ShadowAviator
Need help with 375 Raptor barrel contour
Replies
4
Views
1K
TonyTheTiger
TonyTheTiger
D
Outlier Barrel: A review of the Company & Barrel
Replies
6
Views
716
D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷
D
Top Bottom
Back