Gunsmithing Barrel Length

[dar1246]

I have built a few rifles that have different barrel lentghs from 20" to 30". I don't feel you are gaining much by going to a shorter barrel. There is maybe some apps that would call for a short barrel. But I think for most the 30" barrel is the way to go.
If you build a rifle with a 26" barrel and can it. The barrel ends up being 32" or so. Why not stick with the 30" and gain the extra speed out of the gun. I don't feel it much harder to shoot.

 

[Swan]

Re: Barrel Length

Cuz short barrels are tacticooooooool and everyone wants to shoot 1000 yds with one! When an 18" barrel does it, people are encouraged to go 17", then 16", etc. No rhyme or reason, it's just a pissing match.

Unless your Mil/LE there is no reason. Even shooting tactical comps I see almost no advantage with a shorter barrel.

So ya, I pretty much agree with you.

 

[JPro]

Re: Barrel Length

Have you ever tried to poke a 26" barrel through the window of the truck to engage a "target of opportunity"? It sucks......

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Barrel Length

Bullet choice and twist are far more critical than bbl length, assuming 308Win, and at least 20" or so.

Why go with a 30" bbl, when my 20.5" bbl can toss a 208 AMax at over 2600 fps, and retains 1200 fps past 1500 yards?

 

[JPro]

Re: Barrel Length

A bit off topic, but did you do any further work with the magazine-length heavy Gameking load? Seems like I remember 200gr at 2650?

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

The 308 is one exception to the rule. The 308 is an efficent round. Once you have a 20" 308. Their is no need to build any other gun with a 20" barrel. In most cases if I was going to have a gun for wheeling out a window. I might choose a AR vs a bolt. Like I said early in most apps why not have a 30" barrel.

 

[popeye089]

Re: Barrel Length

Deleted by me

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Barrel Length

Guess it depends on cal and what you are gonna use it for.

30 inches is nice for target shooting, long sight radius and all but sucks for hunting.

My grandaughter did a science project along those lines. She assumed that for elk hunting you needed about 1800-2000 ft lbs of energy for elk hunting, she assumed the normal hunting range was up to 300 yards. So I donated a rifle, she wacked off two inches at time from 26 to 16 inchs, using Remington Factory 180 grn 308s. She chronied after each cut and computed the remaining velocity & energy at 300 yards. She found out 22-24 was the shortest you could practicaly go. Take into account, she chose the 308 180s because, looking ammo sales in the area it was the most common and the project didnt account for reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Barrel Lenght 180 Vel Ke 300 yd KE
26 2826 fps 3,192 2240 2,005
24 2722 fps 2,961 2149 1,846
22 2713 fps 2,942 2141 1,832
20 2677 fps 2,864 2109 1,778
18 2654 fps 2,815 2089 1,744
16 2552 fps 2,603 2000 1,599
</div></div>

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

In most cases of close range targets from 400 and closer. Choose a AR but for shooting long distances. Why not get all you can get? I thnk in field apps the 30" would be prefered.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Barrel Length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In most cases of close range targets from 400 and closer. Choose a AR but for shooting long distances. Why not get all you can get? <span style="font-weight: bold">I thnk in field apps the 30" would be prefered</span>. </div></div>


See the bold part. Have you done any actual "field" apps with a 30 inch tube? I find a 24 inch tube to be a pain in the ass when doing real world applications. YMMV

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

I have read a lot of Montana Marnies posts about the shorter barrel lentghs on the 308. The 208 amaxs have great bcs but the only trouble I had with them. Is they are long as hell. I would think they would fit a long action 308 better than a short action. If I remember right the COAL was something like 2.900 or longer.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

No, I haven't. I have hunted with them but I would think it maybe similiar. I think in buildings or in a urban setting maybe not. In the woods and other settings like this maybe so.

24" barrel length a 8" can= 32". I don't see much of a difference/

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Barrel Length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A bit off topic, but did you do any further work with the magazine-length heavy Gameking load? Seems like I remember 200gr at 2650? </div></div>

Here's the summary. It shoots well, sub moa. I didn't encounter any pressure indicators.

200gr Sierra Game King BTSP
Win brass
CCI 200
2.81 OAL
20.5” bbl, Rem factory 700 VS.
RL-17
50 gr – 2620 fps
51 gr - 2670 fps
51.5 gr – 2700 fps
52 gr – 2730 fps

 

[300sniper]

Re: Barrel Length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built a few rifles that have different barrel lentghs from 20" to 30". I don't feel you are gaining much by going to a shorter barrel. There is maybe some apps that would call for a short barrel. But I think for most the 30" barrel is the way to go.
If you build a rifle with a 26" barrel and can it. The barrel ends up being 32" or so. Why not stick with the 30" and gain the extra speed out of the gun. I don't feel it much harder to shoot. </div></div>

for the typical reader of this site, i think there are far more times that a 20" barrel would be beneficial than there would be for a 30".

your logic doesn't make much sense comparing the overall length with a can to those that will never use a can.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

You do have a point about the can. But I do have a can. It is about the same thing to wheel around for me.

Montana Marine, I tried to load the 208s in mine but didn't work. I planning on building a coupe of new guns this year. It will be gear for this load. The one 20" 308 I had. I sold it to a friend of mine. I do like to have 1 shorter barrel length gun. But on all the others I started to think a longer barrel is better.

 

[JPro]

Re: Barrel Length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A bit off topic, but did you do any further work with the magazine-length heavy Gameking load? Seems like I remember 200gr at 2650? </div></div>

Here's the summary. It shoots well, sub moa. I didn't encounter any pressure indicators.

200gr Sierra Game King BTSP
Win brass
CCI 200
2.81 OAL
20.5” bbl, Rem factory 700 VS.
RL-17
50 gr – 2620 fps
51 gr - 2670 fps
51.5 gr – 2700 fps
52 gr – 2730 fps
</div></div>

Outstanding. Thanks for the info.

I just put together a 20" SPS Tactical in a VLS handle for my father and he couldn't believe that 2600fps was a possiblility with 200's and RL17. He tends to like the heavier bullets, so I may have to give that combo a try.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Barrel Length

I concur with the OP, but of course, most of the longer term posters here knew I would.

I think a handgun is very handy for fighting ones way to their long gun, and I also think a carbine is a fine implement for fighting my way out to rifle distances. But once you're there, pulling a 'Bobbitt' on your barrel is just not especially productive in terms of ballistic advantage.

Please note that all of these references are related to combat situations.

Were I likely to be prone to such situations, I would consider a shorter barrel to have significant advantage in enclosed spaces. but in such spaces, I'd be using that short barrel length on a high-capacity 20ga semi shotgun.

The short rifle barrel enjoys a shorter aspect ratio, with an accompanyingly increased stiffness. This is an accuracy advantage, taken in general.

It is also true that acceptably high velocities and distances can be generated with the short barrel. I suspect, however that this may come at the expense of burning hotter loads, and relish the ability of the longer barrels to generate similar velocities with far less mayhem going on inside the engine room.

On the whole, I see the added length primarily as a bore life advantage.

Greg

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

Greg that make sense. That is a good way of looking at it. After most of the post here. It does make some sense to have a shorter barrel. If I had only one choice. The shorter barrel would be the one to consider vs. the longer barrels. You might lose some speed but being able to wheel the gun around easier.
I know there is a lot of post on this topic. I have different length barrels and don't have any problem with them. But I have the choice to chose the gun for the day. If this was more of my job. I see you point. Thanks

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Barrel Length

Sounds like a whole lot of guessing going on, and no actual experience.

In anything but the largest of calibers a 30" is a complete waste of time unless you are shooting F Class or Palma looking to get a ballistic advantage. In the field if you want that advantage try picking a different caliber.

Best example I can state is the 260 project. The 18.5" 260 in the SH build requires 8.8 Mils to 1000 yards. The competition guys, who are running 28"s or longer barrels in 260 only use 3 MOA less dope than the 18.5" 260, so where is the gain. As some one above stated, hunters aren't dragging around 30" barrels, in fact they are walking the hills with pencil thin barrels to reduce weight.

In the tactical world, "Light is Right"

With a 308 you are not gaining anything by going over 24", especially in this day and age of better bullets, powders, and barrels. its an 800m cartridge, we shoot it to 1000 yards because we are arrogant and because we can, not for any other practical purpose. If you want to make an impression at 1000 yards, choose something else.

I'll never get another 308 with a barrel over 22" and honestly I don't care if I make an F Class rig, it's not going over 24" for any reason.

Accuracy = Practice, not an additional 10 or 12 inches.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Barrel Length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built a few rifles that have different barrel lentghs from 20" to 30". I don't feel you are gaining much by going to a shorter barrel. There is maybe some apps that would call for a short barrel. But I think for most the 30" barrel is the way to go.
If you build a rifle with a 26" barrel and can it. The barrel ends up being 32" or so. Why not stick with the 30" and gain the extra speed out of the gun. I don't feel it much harder to shoot.</div></div>
Dar, if you want to carry a flag pole, be my guest. To me a longer rifle is like a longer fishing pole, they are both a pain in the ass when getting them in or out of my truck. My thoughts on barrel length, pick the length that will accomplish what you intend to do with the rifle and nothing more. If I am going to hunt and the area I will be hunting is within 200 yards max, I grab a carbine or a shorter length bolt gun, when I may have a chance at a 400 yard shot, step up to a 20" AR-10 or a good bolt gun with 20" or greater length barrel. You don't always need the greatest velocity at every situation even though it looks great on paper and it's 150 fps faster.....SmokeRolls

 

[nicholst55]

Re: Barrel Length

I've hunted with some pretty long rifles - an M1A, and bolt guns with 26-27" barrels, and a flintlock with a 32" barrel. Granted, the flintlock is probably only marginally longer than the 27" bolt gun, since it doesn't have the length of an 'action' in there. I much <span style="font-style: italic">prefer</span> to hunt with a rifle with a 16-22" barrel <span style="font-style: italic">in the woods</span>, because it's <span style="font-style: italic">so much easier</span> to maneuver. A long rifle catches on everything - it's an example of Murphy's Law.

Out on the prairie, a long barrel isn't such an impediment to movement - once you get the rifle out of the vehicle. In an urban environment? I'd want the shortest, lightest rifle that would do the job. If an 11.5" barreled SBR will work, then that's what I'd prefer.

Just as cutting a barrel down reaches a point where it's not practical to go any shorter, the same applies to longer barrels. Longer barrels provide greater velocity, up to a point of diminishing returns. With a .308, I see no advantage in going longer than about 24", at the far extreme. A 30" barrel is significantly more flexible than a 24" barrel, and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">infinitely</span></span> more flexible than a 20" barrel. IMHO, the gains realized by a 30" .308 would be more than offset by the negatives encountered - chiefly barrel whip and lack of portability.

That's my take on the subject, anyhow. Others opinions may differ, and that's what makes America great - the right to choose.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Barrel Length

I agree completely, light is right. And, experience is key. I must defer to those that <span style="font-style: italic">do</span>, as one who speculates regarding the subjects at hand. LL is right on the money for what he does.

Very honestly, were I to suddenly grow a new and capable body, and enroll in a tactical evolution of same sort, the rifle I'd be grabbing is my lightweight M70 .30-'06 which bears a 22" barrel. I'll be damned if I'd want to go lugging around my 28" Ghost Dancer .260. At 10 1/2lb, it's light for its class, but for tactical run 'n gun, it's a millstone.

But what I do is probably very different from LL's activities, on the whole at least. I shoot F Class, prone and lethargic, right about out there at my ancient, feeble speed. I first looked at F Class, heaved a sigh of relief and rejoiced that there is indeed a God, and he looks out for us old Feebs.

If one takes a long, strong look at F Class rifles, they tend to be long and heavy; heavier, indeed, than even mine.

Do the short rifles work at distance. Youbetcha, especially in the hands of those who use them frequently and long.

I have no beef with LL's dicta. He knows full well of which he speaks. While I clearly accept his advocacy of short barrels, I also deeply suspect that much of Frank's results come at least as much from him as from his implements. It's not like he just shoots short guns great; I suspect he does at least as well with long ones.

I have had several opportunities to see him at work, and its an education, each and every time. Facts are, I'm genuinely amazed at how he gets his results with certain of his chosen implements

I just do different things in a different manner. If my musings come across as disputative, I guess I put it wrong; s'all.

Greg

 

[Clark]

Re: Barrel Length

There is a trade off in barrel dimensions:
1) The ratio of barrel diameter to barrel length drives stiffness, which contributes to accuracy.
2) The longer the barrel, the more velocity, helping long range accuracy.
3) Increased barrel weight makes increased rifle weight.
Extra fat and/or extra long barrels cost extra $.

What does it all mean?
The trade off between <span style="color: #FF0000">weight, accuracy, velocity, and cost</span>, has no correct answer.

If I have to carry the rifle from the car to the benchrest, 20 pounds with scope is ok.
If I have to hike 2000 vertical feet with a rifle, under 9 pounds with scope and bi pod is ok.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Barrel Length

There is good input on this subject from knowledgeable people. My way of thinking is change. I think it isn't more the length of the barrel but more the use of the tool in use it should be used. The accuracy is more important than the small gains you would get by longer barrels.

I agree with your guys views. This is the good thing about this site. You get shooters with real world knowledge, that gives honest advice. Thanks