Gunsmithing Barrel retapering?
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Re: Barrel retapering?
Hart will do it, Ive had a couple done by them with no ill affect at all. Who better to do it than the original maker.
Hart will do it, Ive had a couple done by them with no ill affect at all. Who better to do it than the original maker.
Re: Barrel retapering?
Now, now Bob, you know that all the "Experts" say you can't be recontouring those button rifled barrels without inducing stress and ruining them. Eddie.
Now, now Bob, you know that all the "Experts" say you can't be recontouring those button rifled barrels without inducing stress and ruining them. Eddie.
Re: Barrel retapering?
Maybe if you are an expert and have it done it will affect your barrels accuracy, but I am far from being an expert at anything, therefore any barrels that I have recontured are not affected at all.
Maybe if you are an expert and have it done it will affect your barrels accuracy, but I am far from being an expert at anything, therefore any barrels that I have recontured are not affected at all.
Re: Barrel retapering?
A very well known rifle builder that I'm friends with taught me that you shouldn't do anything to the exterior of a barrel once it was rifled especially a button rifled one. A couple of years later he is fluting barrels for customers on a regular basis (cut or button rifled) when I ask him about this he said that he has changed his stand point on this particular issue. I haven't done any testing with it my self but I plan to once I think it is about time to rebarrel my bench gun.
A very well known rifle builder that I'm friends with taught me that you shouldn't do anything to the exterior of a barrel once it was rifled especially a button rifled one. A couple of years later he is fluting barrels for customers on a regular basis (cut or button rifled) when I ask him about this he said that he has changed his stand point on this particular issue. I haven't done any testing with it my self but I plan to once I think it is about time to rebarrel my bench gun.
Re: Barrel retapering?
I cut a 375 barrel from 30" target taper to match a 700 sporter.....still shoots sub MOA. I wish I could tell you what barrel it is, but I bought it used.
I cut a 375 barrel from 30" target taper to match a 700 sporter.....still shoots sub MOA. I wish I could tell you what barrel it is, but I bought it used.
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, now Bob, you know that all the "Experts" say you can't be recontouring those button rifled barrels without inducing stress and ruining them. Eddie. </div></div>
SHHHHHH!!!! Remember, you can't say anything that goes against the grain. Never send that barrel to me either for retapering. I refuse to do it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, now Bob, you know that all the "Experts" say you can't be recontouring those button rifled barrels without inducing stress and ruining them. Eddie. </div></div>
SHHHHHH!!!! Remember, you can't say anything that goes against the grain. Never send that barrel to me either for retapering. I refuse to do it
Re: Barrel retapering?
Edited to rephrase that at least one button rifled barrel maker contours after rifling. They have no problem at all with reprofiling one. Light cuts and lots of coolant are the order of the day. I have watched them done at the factory and they are done on CNC lathes that spin about 5000 rpm and does the barrel start to finish in about 2 minutes. When they come out he handed it to me and it was barely over room temp. Fluting is the last thing before they go out the door.
Edited to rephrase that at least one button rifled barrel maker contours after rifling. They have no problem at all with reprofiling one. Light cuts and lots of coolant are the order of the day. I have watched them done at the factory and they are done on CNC lathes that spin about 5000 rpm and does the barrel start to finish in about 2 minutes. When they come out he handed it to me and it was barely over room temp. Fluting is the last thing before they go out the door.
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling. </div></div>
Are you sure about that? I know a couple who contour after drilling, before reaming.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling. </div></div>
Are you sure about that? I know a couple who contour after drilling, before reaming.
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling.</div></div>
I would not make absolute statements that you can't back up.
I would say that most and probably all button rifled barrels are contoured after rifling, but some cut rifled barrel makers countour after drilling so that the bore does not change from the profiling (stress relief) after reaming and rifling.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling.</div></div>
I would not make absolute statements that you can't back up.
I would say that most and probably all button rifled barrels are contoured after rifling, but some cut rifled barrel makers countour after drilling so that the bore does not change from the profiling (stress relief) after reaming and rifling.
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling.</div></div>
I would not make absolute statements that you can't back up.
I would say that most and probably all button rifled barrels are contoured after rifling, but <span style="font-weight: bold">some cut rifled barrel makers contour after drilling so that the bore does not change from the profiling (stress relief) after reaming and rifling.</span> </div></div>
Exactly.
A local barrel maker drills, reams almost to size, profiles, final reams and then rifles IIRC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All barrels are contoured after rifling.</div></div>
I would not make absolute statements that you can't back up.
I would say that most and probably all button rifled barrels are contoured after rifling, but <span style="font-weight: bold">some cut rifled barrel makers contour after drilling so that the bore does not change from the profiling (stress relief) after reaming and rifling.</span> </div></div>
Exactly.
A local barrel maker drills, reams almost to size, profiles, final reams and then rifles IIRC.
Re: Barrel retapering?
Time for some critical thinking. Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process. Unless you make barrels and can say, this is my method or you were there, are you in a position to say one way or another? Talk is cheap. I believe there are even some people manning the phones at the barrel makers that don't really know what's going on in the shop. For any barrel it doesn't even make sense to ream after profiling. By doing so you have more resistance where the barrel is thicker and less at the muzzle so the barrel is going to have a different amount of resistance to being machined.
Unless you are making barrels yourself hold judgment until you see for yourself. I even wrote down and took a list of all the crap I had gathered from this and other sights and it was embarrassing to even read that list off.
I'm certainly not just repeating crap I read or heard on the internet anymore. I don't make barrels but I do get to cut on them. I used to suspect some truth to these claims as they have been repeated by some super reputable people with very impressive resumes as they are now. That was until I personally took the 3 hour tour and got it in person with a professional witness at my side straight from the owner of the barrel manufacturer. I didn't have to take his word. I was there. He showed me each step. He has been in the business near 30 years give or take. They build barrels for the military and friendly governments around the world. I believe I remember him saying he had done barrels as small at 8 caliber up through 20mm. They do a bunch of 20mm. The 20mm stuff took up a large portion of there facility just for those due to their size. They also do the barrels for some of the major manufacturers from time to time. I followed the barrels as they come in as solid blanks all the way to fluting and final inspection before they were packaged for shipping. No part of the shop was held back. I did take pictures of some stuff but no cameras were allowed in some other parts.
I went there with the understanding that cut rifled barrels were superior to button barrels. I don't have the experience or pedigree of championship rifles to have any opinion one way or the other. I was after the truth directly from the source. This outfit is currently pull button rifling the way they do as they have found it is more effective than other methods both button and cut. In the pursuit of perfection they could easily do either. They arrived at this choice after extensive testing and feedback from the military. He was using names like Aberdeen and some others I never heard of and said they were tested for stability by shooting 100 shot groups fast as they could sight and shoot.
The benefits of pull button are the interior of the barrel is compacted (made denser) and slightly work hardened. They are also extremely consistent for diameter from one end to the other as the pull button irons them out all the same. The stress from rifling is fully relieved in a 1100 degree kiln where they heat soak for one hour per inch of thickness then controlled slowly down to room temp. They are lapped after the kiln and never see the lap again. After final lapping they then move on to contouring and then fluting. They are inspected at every station and any one can pull a barrel that doesn't measure up. In the 3 hours most of the finish stations were tossing a couple barrels per hour. They gave me a stack of the bad barrels and they are better than a lot of firsts we get from other manufacturers.
Get a good bore scope and I don't mean the $800 cheap one. Get the photography ready one that is infinitely adjustable and costs $1500 to see for yourself. Then slide a lead lap back and forth through your favorite barrel. I did and found what he was saying to be true. They do this with far more sophisticated equipment than I could ever afford and when he says it doesn't change size I have to take his word for it. He went further to state that a properly manufactured barrel should have no residual stress in it and should be able to be re machined into anything you want without it shifting enough to hurt anything. If your barrel changes size or moves from being cut, you certainly do not have a fully stress relieved barrel in your hands.
I am still open minded enough to learn but it must pass some logic and most importantly practical testing. Now bring on the manufacturers. Let's see first hand if their barrels are so stressed up they can't be cut on after they leave the factory. School is in now in session and I'm taking notes on this one.
Time for some critical thinking. Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process. Unless you make barrels and can say, this is my method or you were there, are you in a position to say one way or another? Talk is cheap. I believe there are even some people manning the phones at the barrel makers that don't really know what's going on in the shop. For any barrel it doesn't even make sense to ream after profiling. By doing so you have more resistance where the barrel is thicker and less at the muzzle so the barrel is going to have a different amount of resistance to being machined.
Unless you are making barrels yourself hold judgment until you see for yourself. I even wrote down and took a list of all the crap I had gathered from this and other sights and it was embarrassing to even read that list off.
I'm certainly not just repeating crap I read or heard on the internet anymore. I don't make barrels but I do get to cut on them. I used to suspect some truth to these claims as they have been repeated by some super reputable people with very impressive resumes as they are now. That was until I personally took the 3 hour tour and got it in person with a professional witness at my side straight from the owner of the barrel manufacturer. I didn't have to take his word. I was there. He showed me each step. He has been in the business near 30 years give or take. They build barrels for the military and friendly governments around the world. I believe I remember him saying he had done barrels as small at 8 caliber up through 20mm. They do a bunch of 20mm. The 20mm stuff took up a large portion of there facility just for those due to their size. They also do the barrels for some of the major manufacturers from time to time. I followed the barrels as they come in as solid blanks all the way to fluting and final inspection before they were packaged for shipping. No part of the shop was held back. I did take pictures of some stuff but no cameras were allowed in some other parts.
I went there with the understanding that cut rifled barrels were superior to button barrels. I don't have the experience or pedigree of championship rifles to have any opinion one way or the other. I was after the truth directly from the source. This outfit is currently pull button rifling the way they do as they have found it is more effective than other methods both button and cut. In the pursuit of perfection they could easily do either. They arrived at this choice after extensive testing and feedback from the military. He was using names like Aberdeen and some others I never heard of and said they were tested for stability by shooting 100 shot groups fast as they could sight and shoot.
The benefits of pull button are the interior of the barrel is compacted (made denser) and slightly work hardened. They are also extremely consistent for diameter from one end to the other as the pull button irons them out all the same. The stress from rifling is fully relieved in a 1100 degree kiln where they heat soak for one hour per inch of thickness then controlled slowly down to room temp. They are lapped after the kiln and never see the lap again. After final lapping they then move on to contouring and then fluting. They are inspected at every station and any one can pull a barrel that doesn't measure up. In the 3 hours most of the finish stations were tossing a couple barrels per hour. They gave me a stack of the bad barrels and they are better than a lot of firsts we get from other manufacturers.
Get a good bore scope and I don't mean the $800 cheap one. Get the photography ready one that is infinitely adjustable and costs $1500 to see for yourself. Then slide a lead lap back and forth through your favorite barrel. I did and found what he was saying to be true. They do this with far more sophisticated equipment than I could ever afford and when he says it doesn't change size I have to take his word for it. He went further to state that a properly manufactured barrel should have no residual stress in it and should be able to be re machined into anything you want without it shifting enough to hurt anything. If your barrel changes size or moves from being cut, you certainly do not have a fully stress relieved barrel in your hands.
I am still open minded enough to learn but it must pass some logic and most importantly practical testing. Now bring on the manufacturers. Let's see first hand if their barrels are so stressed up they can't be cut on after they leave the factory. School is in now in session and I'm taking notes on this one.
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for some critical thinking. Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process. Unless you make barrels and can say, this is my method or you were there, are you in a position to say one way or another? Talk is cheap. I believe there are even some people manning the phones at the barrel makers that don't really know what's going on in the shop. For any barrel it doesn't even make sense to ream after profiling. By doing so you have more resistance where the barrel is thicker and less at the muzzle so the barrel is going to have a different amount of resistance to being machined.
Unless you are making barrels yourself hold judgment until you see for yourself. I even wrote down and took a list of all the crap I had gathered from this and other sights and it was embarrassing to even read that list off.
I'm certainly not just repeating crap I read or heard on the internet anymore. I don't make barrels but I do get to cut on them. I used to suspect some truth to these claims as they have been repeated by some super reputable people with very impressive resumes as they are now. That was until I personally took the 3 hour tour and got it in person with a professional witness at my side straight from the owner of the barrel manufacturer. I didn't have to take his word. I was there. He showed me each step. He has been in the business near 30 years give or take. They build barrels for the military and friendly governments around the world. I believe I remember him saying he had done barrels as small at 8 caliber up through 20mm. They do a bunch of 20mm. The 20mm stuff took up a large portion of there facility just for those due to their size. They also do the barrels for some of the major manufacturers from time to time. I followed the barrels as they come in as solid blanks all the way to fluting and final inspection before they were packaged for shipping. No part of the shop was held back. I did take pictures of some stuff but no cameras were allowed in some other parts.
I went there with the understanding that cut rifled barrels were superior to button barrels. I don't have the experience or pedigree of championship rifles to have any opinion one way or the other. I was after the truth directly from the source. This outfit is currently pull button rifling the way they do as they have found it is more effective than other methods both button and cut. In the pursuit of perfection they could easily do either. They arrived at this choice after extensive testing and feedback from the military. He was using names like Aberdeen and some others I never heard of and said they were tested for stability by shooting 100 shot groups fast as they could sight and shoot.
The benefits of pull button are the interior of the barrel is compacted (made denser) and slightly work hardened. They are also extremely consistent for diameter from one end to the other as the pull button irons them out all the same. The stress from rifling is fully relieved in a 1100 degree kiln where they heat soak for one hour per inch of thickness then controlled slowly down to room temp. They are lapped after the kiln and never see the lap again. After final lapping they then move on to contouring and then fluting. They are inspected at every station and any one can pull a barrel that doesn't measure up. In the 3 hours most of the finish stations were tossing a couple barrels per hour. They gave me a stack of the bad barrels and they are better than a lot of firsts we get from other manufacturers.
Get a good bore scope and I don't mean the $800 cheap one. Get the photography ready one that is infinitely adjustable and costs $1500 to see for yourself. Then slide a lead lap back and forth through your favorite barrel. I did and found what he was saying to be true. They do this with far more sophisticated equipment than I could ever afford and when he says it doesn't change size I have to take his word for it. He went further to state that a properly manufactured barrel should have no residual stress in it and should be able to be re machined into anything you want without it shifting enough to hurt anything. If your barrel changes size or moves from being cut, you certainly do not have a fully stress relieved barrel in your hands.
I am still open minded enough to learn but it must pass some logic and most importantly practical testing. Now bring on the manufacturers. Let's see first hand if their barrels are so stressed up they can't be cut on after they leave the factory. School is in now in session and I'm taking notes on this one. </div></div>
Well seeing as how you really want to learn...first don't state that others information is 'incorrect' because you walked through ONE factory. Don't imagine there was a sales pitch towards their product of any kind????
Before you make a blanket statement of which has been quoted several times perhaps you need to actually call some other barrel makers, especially cut rifled makers!!!! Now I didn't take little footsteps in either makers facility but I didn't talk to the mailman who delivers their either. Boots Obermeyer and Paul Talvstad at Rock Creek both have told me via phone conversations that their blanks are drilled, profiled and then rifled!!!!!(I know first hand because in a phone call it was stated by each "your barrel is drilled, tapered/contoured and ready to rifle". I suspect you will get the same story from Krieger, Bartlein. Have talked to different workers at those facilities but never bothered to ask 'specifically' what steps were taken in what order!!
So Lesson One will be titled "Know for sure what you are talking about before you start typing and discrediting others and their comments"!!!
Lesson 2 could be... 'Pull button vs Cut rifled', Why is there a different Procedure?....However to eliminate the middle man perhaps a phone call to each barrel maker is in order???
Respectfully,
Dennis
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for some critical thinking. Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process. Unless you make barrels and can say, this is my method or you were there, are you in a position to say one way or another? Talk is cheap. I believe there are even some people manning the phones at the barrel makers that don't really know what's going on in the shop. For any barrel it doesn't even make sense to ream after profiling. By doing so you have more resistance where the barrel is thicker and less at the muzzle so the barrel is going to have a different amount of resistance to being machined.
Unless you are making barrels yourself hold judgment until you see for yourself. I even wrote down and took a list of all the crap I had gathered from this and other sights and it was embarrassing to even read that list off.
I'm certainly not just repeating crap I read or heard on the internet anymore. I don't make barrels but I do get to cut on them. I used to suspect some truth to these claims as they have been repeated by some super reputable people with very impressive resumes as they are now. That was until I personally took the 3 hour tour and got it in person with a professional witness at my side straight from the owner of the barrel manufacturer. I didn't have to take his word. I was there. He showed me each step. He has been in the business near 30 years give or take. They build barrels for the military and friendly governments around the world. I believe I remember him saying he had done barrels as small at 8 caliber up through 20mm. They do a bunch of 20mm. The 20mm stuff took up a large portion of there facility just for those due to their size. They also do the barrels for some of the major manufacturers from time to time. I followed the barrels as they come in as solid blanks all the way to fluting and final inspection before they were packaged for shipping. No part of the shop was held back. I did take pictures of some stuff but no cameras were allowed in some other parts.
I went there with the understanding that cut rifled barrels were superior to button barrels. I don't have the experience or pedigree of championship rifles to have any opinion one way or the other. I was after the truth directly from the source. This outfit is currently pull button rifling the way they do as they have found it is more effective than other methods both button and cut. In the pursuit of perfection they could easily do either. They arrived at this choice after extensive testing and feedback from the military. He was using names like Aberdeen and some others I never heard of and said they were tested for stability by shooting 100 shot groups fast as they could sight and shoot.
The benefits of pull button are the interior of the barrel is compacted (made denser) and slightly work hardened. They are also extremely consistent for diameter from one end to the other as the pull button irons them out all the same. The stress from rifling is fully relieved in a 1100 degree kiln where they heat soak for one hour per inch of thickness then controlled slowly down to room temp. They are lapped after the kiln and never see the lap again. After final lapping they then move on to contouring and then fluting. They are inspected at every station and any one can pull a barrel that doesn't measure up. In the 3 hours most of the finish stations were tossing a couple barrels per hour. They gave me a stack of the bad barrels and they are better than a lot of firsts we get from other manufacturers.
Get a good bore scope and I don't mean the $800 cheap one. Get the photography ready one that is infinitely adjustable and costs $1500 to see for yourself. Then slide a lead lap back and forth through your favorite barrel. I did and found what he was saying to be true. They do this with far more sophisticated equipment than I could ever afford and when he says it doesn't change size I have to take his word for it. He went further to state that a properly manufactured barrel should have no residual stress in it and should be able to be re machined into anything you want without it shifting enough to hurt anything. If your barrel changes size or moves from being cut, you certainly do not have a fully stress relieved barrel in your hands.
I am still open minded enough to learn but it must pass some logic and most importantly practical testing. Now bring on the manufacturers. Let's see first hand if their barrels are so stressed up they can't be cut on after they leave the factory. School is in now in session and I'm taking notes on this one. </div></div>
Well seeing as how you really want to learn...first don't state that others information is 'incorrect' because you walked through ONE factory. Don't imagine there was a sales pitch towards their product of any kind????
Before you make a blanket statement of which has been quoted several times perhaps you need to actually call some other barrel makers, especially cut rifled makers!!!! Now I didn't take little footsteps in either makers facility but I didn't talk to the mailman who delivers their either. Boots Obermeyer and Paul Talvstad at Rock Creek both have told me via phone conversations that their blanks are drilled, profiled and then rifled!!!!!(I know first hand because in a phone call it was stated by each "your barrel is drilled, tapered/contoured and ready to rifle". I suspect you will get the same story from Krieger, Bartlein. Have talked to different workers at those facilities but never bothered to ask 'specifically' what steps were taken in what order!!
So Lesson One will be titled "Know for sure what you are talking about before you start typing and discrediting others and their comments"!!!
Lesson 2 could be... 'Pull button vs Cut rifled', Why is there a different Procedure?....However to eliminate the middle man perhaps a phone call to each barrel maker is in order???
Respectfully,
Dennis
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for some critical thinking. <span style="font-weight: bold">Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process.</span> </div></div>
Yes, and Danny explained the process in the same terms of stress relieving that occurs when the barrel is profiled. So, before determining the final bore diameter and rifling the barrel he profiles it?
Yes, I think that he may have also mentioned that cut rifling is "stress free" as it only <span style="font-weight: bold">removes</span> a small amount of material at a time rather than <span style="font-weight: bold">displacing metal</span> as a button does?
Does it make enough difference to make a difference?
Who's to say? Not I.
I was just providing one data point that I knew about not trying to make any sort of blanket proclamation about what's proper or not.
Sorry, my bad.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for some critical thinking. <span style="font-weight: bold">Ream after contouring? How do you know this? Were you there? I thought cut rifling was supposed to be a stress free process.</span> </div></div>
Yes, and Danny explained the process in the same terms of stress relieving that occurs when the barrel is profiled. So, before determining the final bore diameter and rifling the barrel he profiles it?
Yes, I think that he may have also mentioned that cut rifling is "stress free" as it only <span style="font-weight: bold">removes</span> a small amount of material at a time rather than <span style="font-weight: bold">displacing metal</span> as a button does?
Does it make enough difference to make a difference?
Who's to say? Not I.
I was just providing one data point that I knew about not trying to make any sort of blanket proclamation about what's proper or not.
Sorry, my bad.
Re: Barrel retapering?
No sales pitch was involved. Yes, I am here to learn. This is why I went there. I have also visited a couple other manufacturers of products I needed to know about first hand. I did order some barrels later and have been waiting 18 weeks so far. He certainly didn't need any of my business ever. No incentive to even take the time to talk to me but he did for over 3 hours so I have to respect that and to learn as much as I could from it.
May be you can help me with this one. When you know something that is contrary to what others have posted how do you put it out there that your experience is different from the others in the thread without offending anyone?
Respectfully,
Shawn
No sales pitch was involved. Yes, I am here to learn. This is why I went there. I have also visited a couple other manufacturers of products I needed to know about first hand. I did order some barrels later and have been waiting 18 weeks so far. He certainly didn't need any of my business ever. No incentive to even take the time to talk to me but he did for over 3 hours so I have to respect that and to learn as much as I could from it.
May be you can help me with this one. When you know something that is contrary to what others have posted how do you put it out there that your experience is different from the others in the thread without offending anyone?
Respectfully,
Shawn
Re: Barrel retapering?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
May be you can help me with this one. When you <span style="font-weight: bold"> know something</span> that is contrary to what others have posted how do you put it out there that your experience is different from the others in the thread without offending anyone?
Respectfully,
Shawn </div></div>
To acutally 'know something' is different and to 'assume something' is different are a long ways apart. I don't doubt at all that the manufacturer gave you correct information on how his product is manufactured! That is a long distance however from assuming all other barrel makers follow the exact same sequence/process whether button pulled or cut rifled, broached etc.
When it doubt ask something like "heh, visited a manufacturer and this is the procedure/process he follows, is that process/procedure true for all others making the same product? Would sure appreciate input, experiences others know as fact or have seen!" You don't come off as a knowitall, aren't insinuateing another poster is incorrect in his statements etc.
Just get so tired of all the ego chit on this forum and others. Guess I was raised different or at least in a different environment but have never felt the need nor the desire to call a complete stranger a liar, especially not knowing all the facts myself and if indeed what I know/suspect is correct!!! On the flip side some of those responding to questions know even less than the poster they are trying to insult, belittle or degrade. Guess I have more respect for people and am old fashioned. Not gonna internet argue! My life/health suck pretty much as is but not enough to find internet name calling with complete strangers an antidote for my issues!!!
Am done now that I spoke my piece.
Respectfully,
Dennis
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
May be you can help me with this one. When you <span style="font-weight: bold"> know something</span> that is contrary to what others have posted how do you put it out there that your experience is different from the others in the thread without offending anyone?
Respectfully,
Shawn </div></div>
To acutally 'know something' is different and to 'assume something' is different are a long ways apart. I don't doubt at all that the manufacturer gave you correct information on how his product is manufactured! That is a long distance however from assuming all other barrel makers follow the exact same sequence/process whether button pulled or cut rifled, broached etc.
When it doubt ask something like "heh, visited a manufacturer and this is the procedure/process he follows, is that process/procedure true for all others making the same product? Would sure appreciate input, experiences others know as fact or have seen!" You don't come off as a knowitall, aren't insinuateing another poster is incorrect in his statements etc.
Just get so tired of all the ego chit on this forum and others. Guess I was raised different or at least in a different environment but have never felt the need nor the desire to call a complete stranger a liar, especially not knowing all the facts myself and if indeed what I know/suspect is correct!!! On the flip side some of those responding to questions know even less than the poster they are trying to insult, belittle or degrade. Guess I have more respect for people and am old fashioned. Not gonna internet argue! My life/health suck pretty much as is but not enough to find internet name calling with complete strangers an antidote for my issues!!!
Am done now that I spoke my piece.
Respectfully,
Dennis
Re: Barrel retapering?
I can state with 100% certainty that the barrel maker I use....
first drills the blank.
cuts 60 degree centers.
profiles the blank.
flutes the blank if that is on the order form.
reams the blank.
laps the blank.
cuts the rifling.
laps the barrel.
cleans the barrel.
stamps the barrel.
packages the barrel.
puts my address on the package.
yada dada.
They will also take heavy popular target style contours that they try to keep on the shelf and recountour them if requested, based on the need for a barrel right now.
I have used some that were recontoured and they shot as well as they all do.
I have been in there shop many times and consider everyone that works there a personal friend, I have witnessed the entire process, they do it because they feel it makes a small but significant difference.
One additional reason for building a barrel this way is to evaluate the steel, Cut rifled makers normally do not stress relieve there barrels after manf. They start with double stress relieved stock. If a barrel changes during profiling and starts to warp they know it immediatly before they invested a bunch of time in that particular barrel or lot of steel.
I hope you learned somthing and I'm not the "next guy" thats full of shit.
I can state with 100% certainty that the barrel maker I use....
first drills the blank.
cuts 60 degree centers.
profiles the blank.
flutes the blank if that is on the order form.
reams the blank.
laps the blank.
cuts the rifling.
laps the barrel.
cleans the barrel.
stamps the barrel.
packages the barrel.
puts my address on the package.
yada dada.
They will also take heavy popular target style contours that they try to keep on the shelf and recountour them if requested, based on the need for a barrel right now.
I have used some that were recontoured and they shot as well as they all do.
I have been in there shop many times and consider everyone that works there a personal friend, I have witnessed the entire process, they do it because they feel it makes a small but significant difference.
One additional reason for building a barrel this way is to evaluate the steel, Cut rifled makers normally do not stress relieve there barrels after manf. They start with double stress relieved stock. If a barrel changes during profiling and starts to warp they know it immediatly before they invested a bunch of time in that particular barrel or lot of steel.
I hope you learned somthing and I'm not the "next guy" thats full of shit.
Re: Barrel retapering?
I appreciate the tips and will try to implement them. The OP asked if his button rifled barrel could be re contoured and according to the button rifle manufacturer I visited indicated that they will gladly reprofile any of their barrels. Based on that information my opinion is it can safely be recontoured.
I find it interesting that the consensus is that cut rifled barrels are not stressed relieved with heat during the manufacturing process. Skipping that step alone must save them a ton of time and money. The button rifled plant I visited said the heat treatment or stress relieving step was far and away the most time consuming and expensive step in building a barrel. They also indicated it was the key to a stress free barrel that would not shift POI during long strings of fire.
Someone really out to start a thread on merits and limitations of cut verses button rifle process to make barrels. Maybe someone with some influence the manufacturers to participate and share how they came to make them how they do.
I have no horse in this race as a custom barrel fitter I never pick a customers components. It's their money and they get it their way. I just make it the best it can be.
Hows that?
Thanks
Shawn
I appreciate the tips and will try to implement them. The OP asked if his button rifled barrel could be re contoured and according to the button rifle manufacturer I visited indicated that they will gladly reprofile any of their barrels. Based on that information my opinion is it can safely be recontoured.
I find it interesting that the consensus is that cut rifled barrels are not stressed relieved with heat during the manufacturing process. Skipping that step alone must save them a ton of time and money. The button rifled plant I visited said the heat treatment or stress relieving step was far and away the most time consuming and expensive step in building a barrel. They also indicated it was the key to a stress free barrel that would not shift POI during long strings of fire.
Someone really out to start a thread on merits and limitations of cut verses button rifle process to make barrels. Maybe someone with some influence the manufacturers to participate and share how they came to make them how they do.
I have no horse in this race as a custom barrel fitter I never pick a customers components. It's their money and they get it their way. I just make it the best it can be.
Hows that?
Thanks
Shawn
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Gunsmithing Re-contouring a barrel blank