- Thread starter 6.5BR
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4R wouldn't be as effective as 5R due to how they explain it works. Just remember that the rifling's are not all the same thickness when comparing barrels with 2 and up rifling's. Typically the few rifling's, the the thicker they are. As to benefit, I think that the barrel maker has more to do with how well a barrel shoots and not the number or style of the rifling. If you really want to know, ask Frank Green of Bartlein barrels... He has been extremely helpful to me.
I've heard 5r has longer barrel life, and 4 grooves tend to have more accuracy potential. TacOps rifles use a 4 groove.
I have a 4 groove chambered in 300WSM. I like it and can't complain about the velocity it produces. I'm pushing a 215 Berger Hybrid at 3050 fps. That said I'm not sure that there is any real difference in the performance of a 4 groove versus a 5r.
This is very true. There are a lot of great choices.
Saying that, I have 4 Kreiger 4 bores and they are all very accurate. 2 BR and 2 field rifles.
Can't say that my 3 Bartleins aren't top notch either.
Buy good brand with good smith and it won't matter.
The number of grooves has no real bearing on barrel life. Same goes for accuracy. The only place the 4 groove has an accuracy advantage is with light weight 6mm bullets. Like 80gr and less. They don't like the 5R style of rifling. I believe it's because of them not having a lot of bearing surface on the bullet for the lands to do the driving. Heavy weight 6mm bullets no difference.
I feel the 5R style rifling with the odd number of grooves I feel helps with bullet failure (mostly with thin match style jackets). This is because the odd number of grooves doesn't directly oppose one another vs. a even groove barrel so the jacket doesn't get deformed as much making the jump into the rifling. Also the gentler angle on the sides of the lands tends not to leave a stress point on the bullet jacket.
No difference in cleaning etc....
My short range bench gun has a conventional 5 groove and the gun just pounds them.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
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This should put an end to speculation that 4 grooves are more accurate. Thanks!
How about a 6 groove. Ive had several 6 groove shilen barrels that absolutly hammer. Short range that is. A friend of mine today at the range claimed he order a Bartlein 6groove barrel in 6mm 8 twist. i didnt even know Bartlein offered this option. I may try one myself. Lee
I appreciate all input, esp/inc. Frank, thanks sir. I originally got a 4 gr for a 6.5 as the old Swede Mausers were 4gr cut rifled, and shot like crazy, and so far, the 6 and 6.5 Bartlein's w/4gr all shot great, not that there is any reason to think a 5R would do any worse. Just curious on matters. The issue on light 6s makes sense btw.
Thanks for the input folks.
Thanks for the input folks.
I shoot a 4 groove kreiger in 6mm 243AI... Easy .5moa at 1000 yds in good conditions...
5@ 1000
5@ 1000
Don't forget "your part"!
Please elaborate... Always up for constructive criticism... I was shooting off a bi-pod and read bag. No f class gear...
Here is a picture of a set of targets that I shot with a conventional 5 groove barrel. Chamber is 6PPC. The one group at the lower left was shot on a set of targets above the other 4 but all 5 groups were shot at the same time. All 5 shot groups.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Frank is obviously the voice of *experience* here...
That said, I've read a lot of research about rifle barrels. Seems to me I've read that in terms of accuracy, it makes no detectable difference if you've got 2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 grooves.
What matters is that you've got *something* to cause the bullet to spin, a uniform twist rate, a smooth surface finish, a uniform bore/groove diameter, and the "right* bore cross-sectional area - which will change based on number and size of lands/grooves).
That said, I've read a lot of research about rifle barrels. Seems to me I've read that in terms of accuracy, it makes no detectable difference if you've got 2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 grooves.
What matters is that you've got *something* to cause the bullet to spin, a uniform twist rate, a smooth surface finish, a uniform bore/groove diameter, and the "right* bore cross-sectional area - which will change based on number and size of lands/grooves).
Exactly. I have had both and both shoot great.
Could this be the cause of the issue I had with one 4 groove barrel? I had a 6.5mm that was very, very erratic with Berger 130 gr. Hunting VLDs, especially at shorter ranges, with the occasional key hold? The problem went away with target VLDs.
4 groove or a 5R etc....as long as the twist was a 1-9 or faster the 130 Bergers VLD or hunting should've shot fine. Something else had to be going on.
They we're key holing?
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Well, I say key holing. That probably wasn't the right term. Erratic groups with holes that were often not round. Maybe this is better described as yaw? It was another brand of barrel in 1:8", but switching to the 140 target VLD and later the hybrid cured the problem.
The rifling twist not being uniform is a possibility.
Did you try a different lot of Berger 130's? Bullets at times can be a problem and can vary from lot to lot.
To fast a twist? The 1-8 should've been just fine. I know to fast a twist with a to light of a bullet can cause problems. Any run out the ammo has or bullets have the faster twist can cause problems. I've seen bullets actually key hole (go thru the target sideways even at a 100 yards). Any runout the ammo has and or poor quality bullets/ammo the faster twist will amplify the runout and this can lead to bigger groups and or in some cases key holing etc....
As long as you are shooting good quality bullets/ammo even with lighter weight bullets a faster twist shouldn't hurt you as bad as some think it can.
My .260 Rem. barrel is a 1-8.2 and my wife's hunting rifle in .260 Rem. is a 1-8.5 twist. I've shot everything from 120gr., 123's, 130's and 140's thru both guns and both guns shoot like a million bucks.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Did you try a different lot of Berger 130's? Bullets at times can be a problem and can vary from lot to lot.
To fast a twist? The 1-8 should've been just fine. I know to fast a twist with a to light of a bullet can cause problems. Any run out the ammo has or bullets have the faster twist can cause problems. I've seen bullets actually key hole (go thru the target sideways even at a 100 yards). Any runout the ammo has and or poor quality bullets/ammo the faster twist will amplify the runout and this can lead to bigger groups and or in some cases key holing etc....
As long as you are shooting good quality bullets/ammo even with lighter weight bullets a faster twist shouldn't hurt you as bad as some think it can.
My .260 Rem. barrel is a 1-8.2 and my wife's hunting rifle in .260 Rem. is a 1-8.5 twist. I've shot everything from 120gr., 123's, 130's and 140's thru both guns and both guns shoot like a million bucks.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
I thought maybe it was the phenomenon you were describing about perhaps with the thinner jacketed "hunting" VLDs. It did it over several months with different lots of powder and bullets. Ultimately, switching bullets cured it and turned it into the one-holer I expected.
These days I'm shooting two Bartlein 1:8.5" in .260 and both shoot anything I stuff in the case. Thanks for making great products and having a presence here.
These days I'm shooting two Bartlein 1:8.5" in .260 and both shoot anything I stuff in the case. Thanks for making great products and having a presence here.
I am running a three Bartlein 5R & one 4 groove. All of them hammer & clean real easy which is why I keep buying Bartlein barrels. Keep up the great work Frank!! I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my next Bartlein for my .308 build.
Thanks AWP762!
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