- Thread starter Rock Head
- Start date
Re: BCG: Staked or not
The Young bolt group is "staked", just not mechanically. Dan Young has been using Loctite for many years as a means of securing the key screws.
The Young bolt group is "staked", just not mechanically. Dan Young has been using Loctite for many years as a means of securing the key screws.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable.
Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
Its a blondes vs. brunettes argument that can't be won. Some people have a preference and voice it loudly from the rooftops, but at the end of the day, both options will get the job done effectively!
At the end of the day Young's point is if you install the key as they do...you don't need to stake the screws. If you want to do so after using their methodology, by all means...it won't hurt anything aside from voiding your warranty from Youngs on the BCG.
Here is the detailed, Young Mfg carrier key installation procedure for anyone interested:
1) First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier.
2) Next, clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this.
3) Next, use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes.
4) Next, coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x 1/4” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell's that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires.
Just remember, should you decide to stake your Young carrier key in place...Young will ABSOLUTELY NOT honor the warranty, will charge you for a new key, as well as any labor required to remove broken screws.
Its a blondes vs. brunettes argument that can't be won. Some people have a preference and voice it loudly from the rooftops, but at the end of the day, both options will get the job done effectively!
At the end of the day Young's point is if you install the key as they do...you don't need to stake the screws. If you want to do so after using their methodology, by all means...it won't hurt anything aside from voiding your warranty from Youngs on the BCG.
Here is the detailed, Young Mfg carrier key installation procedure for anyone interested:
1) First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier.
2) Next, clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this.
3) Next, use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes.
4) Next, coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x 1/4” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell's that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires.
Just remember, should you decide to stake your Young carrier key in place...Young will ABSOLUTELY NOT honor the warranty, will charge you for a new key, as well as any labor required to remove broken screws.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable. </div></div>
It doesn't get anywhere near the 400-450 degree release point of the Loctite.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable. </div></div>
It doesn't get anywhere near the 400-450 degree release point of the Loctite.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
Stake it, I've personally seen the gas key come loose on a young BCG.
Stake it, I've personally seen the gas key come loose on a young BCG.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BallistaOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable. </div></div>
It doesn't get anywhere near the 400-450 degree release point of the Loctite. </div></div>
No doubt, didn't realize it was that high. I work with the stuff regularly, but had been told 200 or something in the 200s, I see loctite's tech data agrees with your statement. Really doesn't seem like we get parts that hot. Also curious that the release temp they give is more than 100 degrees higher than the service temp. But then in my work enviroment contamination is almost certain, as opposed to small parts on a bench.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BallistaOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some day I'll have to drag my non-contact thermometer to the range and see how hot a BCG gets during extended rapid fire shot strings, not quite mag dumps, but this probably won't be soon, if someone else wants to beat me to it.
I question the suitability of loc-tite, even if its apparently working, this is one part I damn sure don't want to have come loose and can imagine no good reason to keep relatively easily removable. </div></div>
It doesn't get anywhere near the 400-450 degree release point of the Loctite. </div></div>
No doubt, didn't realize it was that high. I work with the stuff regularly, but had been told 200 or something in the 200s, I see loctite's tech data agrees with your statement. Really doesn't seem like we get parts that hot. Also curious that the release temp they give is more than 100 degrees higher than the service temp. But then in my work enviroment contamination is almost certain, as opposed to small parts on a bench.
Re: BCG: Staked or not
Stake it, no Locktite or other thread locker. Good luck removing a broken stud the easy way. If it's staked and a gas key cap screw breaks flush with the carrier, a dental pick will back it right out. If thread lock is used, break out the drill and EZ-out. Why do you suppose every manufacturer except Young stakes gas keys? Furthermore, all military manuals and armorer schools state and teach "stake it".
Kevin
Stake it, no Locktite or other thread locker. Good luck removing a broken stud the easy way. If it's staked and a gas key cap screw breaks flush with the carrier, a dental pick will back it right out. If thread lock is used, break out the drill and EZ-out. Why do you suppose every manufacturer except Young stakes gas keys? Furthermore, all military manuals and armorer schools state and teach "stake it".
Kevin
