Rifle Scopes BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

[trobertson5-0]

I am wanting to get input from those who use the reticles with holdover stadia in them. I am thinking of getting one for a hunting/beat around lighweight .308 I am putting together.

I am thinking about the 1" tubed,non target knob versions such as the Leupold B&C,Nikon BDC,Burris ballistic plex,or the Leupold LR duplex. I want the simplicity and low profile of the non-target knobs for this rifle,it's going to be carried in a ATV scabbard,thrown behind pick up truck seats,and generally beat around.

Does anyone have any experience with these? How do they track with a 175 SMK at 2650 or any other standard loads? Are they good enough to put the bullet within a 8" circle at the range indicated by the reticle? I am aware I can check my load against it in the field but I would like a reticle that was at least CLOSE to the indicated yardage. Thanks in advance. TJR

 

[rcm243]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I`ve got a Nikon 5x20 Monarch with BDC reticle on a 25/06 and at 200 zero on the cross hair the first circle is right on at 300, the second circle is right on at 425, thats with a 115 gr bullet at 3128 fps. As far as the tracking,I haven`t tried that.
The only problem I see with the reticle is that it needs to be about half the size,I don`t know what their engineers were thinking,it wouldn`t be a prarie dog rig.

 

[McKinneyMike]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I also own a Nikon Monarch 4-16X50 w/BDC reticle that I use on a 25-06. The reticle is too thick to be useful for my uses and I wish that it were a hash mark type rather than a circle.

I purchased it as I have always liked Nikon glass for my hunting rigs and got caught up in the hype without really giving it serious thought. I should have opted for a duplex or the new fine cross hair reticle.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

The exact same thing can be done with a standard MilDot reticle which is not calibrated to any weapon or round, gay redneck hunting shit is a marketing wetdream, and suckers buy it up like theres no tomara!

 

[Swift One]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The exact same thing can be done with a standard MilDot reticle which is not calibrated to any weapon or round, gay redneck hunting shit is a marketing wetdream, and suckers buy it up like theres no tomara!
</div></div>

With the exception to the "Gay Hunting Redneck" portion of this, I couldn't agree with this quote more. Alot of my hunting buddies come at me for an opinion about this reticle. It seems that it was designed for a specific load in a certain weapon. I'm sure that everyone knows that you can take the same two weapons that were made on the same day and both of them could very well fire the same load very different. The Mildot is universal no matter what weapon you have it mounted on. I tell them to go with a mildot and not look back.

As with anything else, it seems that the hutning industry has gotten into the BS game when selling gear. Shit, I still think that the woodland camo pattern is one of the most universal patterns out there for hunting. I dont hunt without my woodys on........

 

[sscoyote]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I use many ballistic and rangefinding reticles for long-range shooting, and my favorites are the tree reticles for more accurate windage applications-- www.rapidreticle.com, Darrell Holland's ART reticles, Zeiss Rapid-Z's (designed by the RR reticle guys above), Horus Vision, and Leupold's VH reticle. Nightforce's oughtta' be the same--just another tree reticle design really.

 

[samnev]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Remember the BDC reticles are calibrated for a specific bullet and velocity chosen by the maker. If you vary from that you BDC is only an approximation. Found this out after my first ACOG and not shooting the 855 round it was designed for.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

It CAN be useful, if you spend some time with it.

Leupold BAS B&C reticle

 

[sscoyote]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

1 of the ballistic reticles that i use is a Leup. VH reticle on a 243 WSSM Savage Striker that shoots the 115 DTAC @ 2550ish. That system doesn't even come close to the inuitive hundred yd. spacing that these reticles were designed for. But all the stadia have a subtension and can therefore be calcd. for whatever impact points they may have with your load. The calculation is the same whether it actually does work intuitvely or not. IE-- if my load drops 5.6 MOA at any particualr range and the 2 stadia i'm working with are 1) 4.5 and 2) 7.3 (whatever) MOA, then 5.6 MOA is 1.1 MOA lower then the 4.5 MOA point, and there are 2.8 MOA between the 2 stadia so 1.1/2.8=0.4. Therefore my reference would be 1.4 subtension units for that particular range. Here's the system that i use for my reticles (elevation and windage)--

...for this 3 MOA TK Lee reticle on an AR for coyotes--

 

[michael_aos]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I have a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-L on my Remington 700 270 WSM.

Out to 400yds, it's "close enough".

 

[samnev]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-L on my Remington 700 270 WSM.

Out to 400yds, it's "close enough". </div></div>

Close enough depends on the type of shooting one is doing. Huntig big game is one thing shooting a match is another.

 

[johndoe]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The exact same thing can be done with a standard MilDot reticle which is not calibrated to any weapon or round, gay redneck hunting shit is a marketing wetdream, and suckers buy it up like theres no tomara! </div></div>


LoL

 

[lovetsx]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I love my Nikon with it's BDC. Yes you can do the same with a mildot. I would prefer to dial it in but some times you don't have time especially when the coyote is running at 300-400 yards. Nikon has a website where you input your bullet and speed and it tells you what each dot is. here is mine.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lovetsx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nikon has a website where you input your bullet and speed and it tells you what each dot is.</div></div>

That is awesome. I wish Leupold provided something similar. They do provide detailed information about their B&C reticle, but I haven't found the information they provide actually USEFUL at all.

 

[rmfield]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Zeiss and Swaro offer the same type of info on their websites, but its not rocket science - if you have a ballistics program and you take the time to learn your reticle, you can do it yourself.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rmfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its not rocket science - if you have a ballistics program and you take the time to learn your reticle, you can do it yourself. </div></div>

Yeah, you'd think it would be extremely straight-forward.

I haven't tried it recently, but based on their info a couple years ago, I couldn't make any sense of it. Maybe I was just doing it wrong.

 

[carbinero]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I make my own charts using an excel spreadsheet and dialing in with an online ballistics program. One page for each load. The OP is re: BDC, but I do this for duplex reticles, measuring the size of the thick/thin crosshairs at 100 yards at 9x. Then just do the math for holdovers.

This is obviously a cheap substitute until I can afford a good mil-dot, by the way...I'm just not interested in spending that time learning a proprietary BDC.

 

[rmfield]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Michael,
The critical info that Leupold is not giving you is the distance between the lines (elevation) and the length of the lines (windage) in a form that you can use (MOA, IPHY or Mils). However, you can figure it out by looking thru the scope at a grid at known distance. Once you know that, print out your ballistic data in 1 yard increments and match it up to your reticle. Then just figure what the lengths of the lines represent in windage for your bullet.

Even if Leupold gave you the info you needed, you would want to confirm it. Based on my experience with Leupold, I wouldn't trust anything they said about how the reticle or knobs are calibrated on their scopes.

If you're going to be in Raton this weekend, I can give a more detailed explanation.

 

[JNel]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I have used ballistic reticle with decent results. With the use of Exbal it comes out pretty close. Exbal has a nice reticle analysis for some of the ballistic reticles out there. Nothing beats dailing for accuracy though.

 

[Lindy]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing beats dailing for accuracy though.</div></div>

I'm afraid that often may not be the case.

I can read a mil reticle to an accuracy of 0.1 mil, or better, and I have calibrated my reticles so I know they are accurate.

The typical click value on a scope which adjusts in mils is 0.1 mil.

However, it's usually not <span style="font-style: italic">exactly</span> perfectly 0.1 mil, and the more of those clicks you have to dial up from your zero, the greater the cumulative error is.

So, if I can hold using an extended reticle to 0.1 mil or better, and I can't <span style="font-style: italic">dial</span> to an accuracy of 0.1 mil, then holding using the reticle is more accurate.

Now, if you have calibrated your click values, you might be able to get pretty close by dialing. But the statement that nothing beats dialing for accuracy is not always true, and is frequently false.

And if you haven't calibrated your adjustment values, you don't know which is the case.

 

[JNel]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

So, if you were to shoot my .308 to 1000 yards in a 15 mph full value wind, you would leave it with the 100 yard zero and hold the prescribed 9.6 mil above and 3.2 mil over instead of dailing it in?

 

[Lindy]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Well, no, I wouldn't do that. The reticle I shoot doesn't allow holding 10 mils from a 100 yard zero.

But I have calibrated the clicks in my scope, and when I dial the elevation necessary for a 1000 yard shot, I know what I'm dialing.

I have done a lot of shooting out to 1000 yards using holdovers, though, back when I used a Horus reticle.

 

[sscoyote]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Lindy--why did u get away from Horus? Seems like that would be the most precise system of reticle reference made.

Once the inversely proportional nature of 2nd FP reticles is understood, it allows for an amazing amount of flexibility for longer range shooting (such as the Nikon's ballistic program system noted above does--and many others, now that Gerald Perry at Exbal sort of started it all). A buddy of mine's kid had a Marlin 22 he brought out on a coyote hunt a number of years ago. The rig had a Simmons 3-9x rifle scope on top with plex-style reticle. While wlaking through a prairie dog town in search of coyotes i asked to look at it. The plex post tips appeared to subtend ~6 MOA from x-hair axis @ 9x. I told the kid if he cranked the scope down to 3x it would be about 18 MOA (6x3) and it oughtta get him to ~300 yds. or so with a 22. We thought to test it out on a couple PD's. So this kid sets up on a PD mound and i range a couple dogs at 290-something. He gets ready and shoots. The bullet hits a bit low (no wind day, BTW). He readjusts a bit higher and nails this PD that rolls off the back of the mound. 'Course it didn't kill it right off, and it scurries up on top of the mound again and hesitates for a second--big mistake and this kid shoots again, and nails the dog once again--now 2 shots in a row, and it kills the dog. It's buddy comes out of the hole and barks at him now dead laying behind the hole. This kid shoots a couple more time and nails him too. When we went up to the mound, i still had a hard time believing there were 2 dead dogs at ~300 yds. killed with a kids 22 at that range. This kid was a practiced shooter, but understanding a bit of mathematics applications sure didn't hurt him none, tell u that.

I question Leupold often regarding their reticle subtensions/power rings as well. My 4.5-14x VX-III is cald. incorrectly, as the RES system should be inversley proportional also. If u look at the power ring u'll notice that at 14x it adds up to a 16" subtension system of 600 yds. At 7x it should be 300 yds, but it's actually 6x. That is incorrect. When they 1st came out with the subtension info on their BAS reticles that was also wrong. Not sure if anyone ever noticed this but i did and called them on it. Next catalog out it was corrected.

Most plex reticles/power rings that i've tested are very close though. Used to do this out the window of my house on optical stds. (signs mostly) at various lasered distances from my front window.

 

[Ando]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

For hunting I have used the Leupold LR and B&C reticles with very good success. However, I always tailor the reticle to the load using the Measurements that Leupold provides in the manual with corresponding drops at the various yardages, like some of the above posters. JBM ballistics is great for this. This will absolutely work for hunting distance and hunting accuracy, so say within the 8" circle to 350 yards.

For target I have used the Zeiss Z1000 rapid reticle with less success. It is supposed to be calibrated to a M118LR type of load, however in use I still have to dial in about 1-1.5 MOA once it gets above 500 yards. So I finally decided to trade in for a Razor and just dial in everything.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ando</div><div class="ubbcode-body">say within the 8" circle to 350 yards.</div></div>

Yeah, that's what I meant by "close enough".

 

[Lindy]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lindy--why did u get away from Horus?</div></div>

Because Horus reticles rock, although they are grossly overpriced, but the people at Horus and their customer service sucks.

I'd set myself on fire before I'd give them a dollar more of my money.

 

[trobertson5-0]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

Thanks for all the great input guys! More information than I expected to take in, but more information is better. TJR

 

[elkstalker338]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

I will chime in on this one, BDC reticles are fine if you shoot flat, level, same temp, same elevation, same air pressure etc. If you change any one of these or a combo then your reticle will be off, long range and an elevated target by 10 degrees will/can mean a miss. I have started out shooting a BDC, but the more I learned about long range the more my mind started changing, custom turrents offer the same challenges, my biggest down fall is you have to load for the bdc, dialing in allows you to load for accuracy, I dont shoot matches but where I hunt I may be changing elevation by 3000-4000 feet in a day. I have came to the conculusion that a reticle hash marked in MOA with the ability to dial will be the best choice which will allow for precise dialing or quicker hold over shots. Just my opinion










i

 

[ssgp2]

Re: BDC reticles. Anyone have luck with them??

USO SN3 3.8x22x44 with Horus @ 600meters.

Input your data in Ballistic FTE, velocity, cal, BC, weather, etc and hold on target.

Simple and fast.

IF you make a mistake, reference impact on the grid and correct for effect....

Very useful at the SH Cup.
Watching 9 shooters engaging 5 targets at 600 yards.
Almost all where missing the first with the same error.

Apply the point of impact to the what I calculated, first round hit.
Thanks to all the previous shooters.