- Thread starter Invstr21
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Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
Try it without bedding.
The only reason I bedded it at all was from inletting the DBM.
Depending on shooting skill there might not be a difference.
Try it without bedding.
The only reason I bedded it at all was from inletting the DBM.
Depending on shooting skill there might not be a difference.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
It isn't necessary. My gun shoots great sans bedding, and I don't feel like I need that very little something extra, if even there would be something to gain.
But it can't hurt either.
It isn't necessary. My gun shoots great sans bedding, and I don't feel like I need that very little something extra, if even there would be something to gain.
But it can't hurt either.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
I like to skim bed mine with Marine Tex. Not sure it makes any difference at all though.
I like to skim bed mine with Marine Tex. Not sure it makes any difference at all though.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
I have owned several hs stocks for the 700 remington, some needed bedding very bad and others shot great (1/4 moa 40x tactical). I recomend shooting it and seeing how it does, and if you are like me and cannot leave well enough alone or it dosent shoot well test the bedding. I use 2 methods 1 is to torque the action in and hold the rifle muzzle up at about 20 degree angle from vertical so the barrel is over the stock (like you are shooting up a steep hill) install a dial indicator w/ a magnetic base on the barrel and the indicator zeroed on the under side of the fore arm. Now loosen and tighten the front action screw and observe the indicator, repeat this for the rear. You should see no more than 0.002 or so movement. You can also use prussian blue on the action and install it and look at the contact.
I have owned several hs stocks for the 700 remington, some needed bedding very bad and others shot great (1/4 moa 40x tactical). I recomend shooting it and seeing how it does, and if you are like me and cannot leave well enough alone or it dosent shoot well test the bedding. I use 2 methods 1 is to torque the action in and hold the rifle muzzle up at about 20 degree angle from vertical so the barrel is over the stock (like you are shooting up a steep hill) install a dial indicator w/ a magnetic base on the barrel and the indicator zeroed on the under side of the fore arm. Now loosen and tighten the front action screw and observe the indicator, repeat this for the rear. You should see no more than 0.002 or so movement. You can also use prussian blue on the action and install it and look at the contact.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
+1 on shoot-and-see. Plan on the action taking a couple of shoots to settle. If it doesn't shoot and you're certain of your scope, PM me for the pillar technique to solve the problem. It's rather extensive, but it will turn the bedding block system into a true chassis system that will have minimal POI shift on removal/replacement of the action.
I have a .270 Sendero, a .300WM Sendero, and a 300WM PSS that shoot well with just the bedding block. However, my .223 PSS was completely erratic until I rebedded it with great improvement. I can't explain why some shoot well and some don't, but take heart that most seem to shoot pretty well with no additional bedding.
+1 on shoot-and-see. Plan on the action taking a couple of shoots to settle. If it doesn't shoot and you're certain of your scope, PM me for the pillar technique to solve the problem. It's rather extensive, but it will turn the bedding block system into a true chassis system that will have minimal POI shift on removal/replacement of the action.
I have a .270 Sendero, a .300WM Sendero, and a 300WM PSS that shoot well with just the bedding block. However, my .223 PSS was completely erratic until I rebedded it with great improvement. I can't explain why some shoot well and some don't, but take heart that most seem to shoot pretty well with no additional bedding.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
This is good advice as I was about to ask a similar question. I just put a McMillan A4 stock on my Rem 700 .308 and was trying to decide if I should bed it or not. I am going to the range this weekend to see how she does w/o being bedded.
One question though if I may. How tight (inch-pounds?) do I tighten the screws that hold the action/barrel to the stock? So far I don't have an inch-pound torque wrench, but I snugged them down pretty good for this weekend. But for future reference, I'd like to know the actual specs for torquing down the action w/o having it rattle or crack the stock. Thanks.
This is good advice as I was about to ask a similar question. I just put a McMillan A4 stock on my Rem 700 .308 and was trying to decide if I should bed it or not. I am going to the range this weekend to see how she does w/o being bedded.
One question though if I may. How tight (inch-pounds?) do I tighten the screws that hold the action/barrel to the stock? So far I don't have an inch-pound torque wrench, but I snugged them down pretty good for this weekend. But for future reference, I'd like to know the actual specs for torquing down the action w/o having it rattle or crack the stock. Thanks.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
After much searching (still haven't found the 'sticky' on this that someone mentioned) I find that 65" #'s is the correct torque for the bolts mating the action to the stock. Correct for a Rem 700 SA in a McM A4?
After much searching (still haven't found the 'sticky' on this that someone mentioned) I find that 65" #'s is the correct torque for the bolts mating the action to the stock. Correct for a Rem 700 SA in a McM A4?
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
It depends on two things.
If your rifle will shoot currently and if there is stress induced on your action because of the bedding.
Some HS Stocks are fine and only induce .001-.004" of stress on the action, while othere are putting .040" stress on the action.
Most likely the actions getting stressed will benefit from bedding.
Mark
It depends on two things.
If your rifle will shoot currently and if there is stress induced on your action because of the bedding.
Some HS Stocks are fine and only induce .001-.004" of stress on the action, while othere are putting .040" stress on the action.
Most likely the actions getting stressed will benefit from bedding.
Mark
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is good advice as I was about to ask a similar question. I just put a McMillan A4 stock on my Rem 700 .308 and was trying to decide if I should bed it or not. I am going to the range this weekend to see how she does w/o being bedded.
One question though if I may. How tight (inch-pounds?) do I tighten the screws that hold the action/barrel to the stock? So far I don't have an inch-pound torque wrench, but I snugged them down pretty good for this weekend. But for future reference, I'd like to know the actual specs for torquing down the action w/o having it rattle or crack the stock. Thanks. </div></div>
All HS Precision stocks are 65 inch pounds. The directions will be right in the box.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is good advice as I was about to ask a similar question. I just put a McMillan A4 stock on my Rem 700 .308 and was trying to decide if I should bed it or not. I am going to the range this weekend to see how she does w/o being bedded.
One question though if I may. How tight (inch-pounds?) do I tighten the screws that hold the action/barrel to the stock? So far I don't have an inch-pound torque wrench, but I snugged them down pretty good for this weekend. But for future reference, I'd like to know the actual specs for torquing down the action w/o having it rattle or crack the stock. Thanks. </div></div>
All HS Precision stocks are 65 inch pounds. The directions will be right in the box.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
the HS has a much better bedding system than the mcmillan i believe. my block is full length of the receiver and i think mcmillans are just pillar bedded.
the HS has a much better bedding system than the mcmillan i believe. my block is full length of the receiver and i think mcmillans are just pillar bedded.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
You really need to bed any stock without an aluminum bedding block - McMillan, Manners, Laminated, etc.
You MIGHT need to bed a stock with an aluminum bedding block. HS, Houge, etc.
The need to bed a stock with a machined bedding block usually has to do with the action being less than perfectly machined. Remingtons are belt sanded for final finish and obviously this does nothing to insure an action exterior that is straight (and certainly noting to do with concentric to the interior bore - but that is another topic).
Bottom line is to bolt that blaster in the HS stock and see how it shoots. If you feel it should shoot better, bed the action and bedding block. It is a pretty simple process that has been outlined many times here and on other websites.
I have a TAC-MOD stock for testing guns, scopes, etc.
My personal rifles in HS stocks have been skim bedded to the individual action - it has never hurt accuracy or return to zero when taking barreled action in/out of stock.
Mike
You really need to bed any stock without an aluminum bedding block - McMillan, Manners, Laminated, etc.
You MIGHT need to bed a stock with an aluminum bedding block. HS, Houge, etc.
The need to bed a stock with a machined bedding block usually has to do with the action being less than perfectly machined. Remingtons are belt sanded for final finish and obviously this does nothing to insure an action exterior that is straight (and certainly noting to do with concentric to the interior bore - but that is another topic).
Bottom line is to bolt that blaster in the HS stock and see how it shoots. If you feel it should shoot better, bed the action and bedding block. It is a pretty simple process that has been outlined many times here and on other websites.
I have a TAC-MOD stock for testing guns, scopes, etc.
My personal rifles in HS stocks have been skim bedded to the individual action - it has never hurt accuracy or return to zero when taking barreled action in/out of stock.
Mike
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
Has anyone ever had a HS stocked rifle loose accuracy after being bedded?
Has anyone ever had a HS stocked rifle loose accuracy after being bedded?
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
I have bedded several hs stocks and all have gained some type of accuracy, wheather it be repeatiable return to zero after removal or actual accuracy of a measured group. This is only if the bedding is done correctly and provides a stress free bed.
I have bedded several hs stocks and all have gained some type of accuracy, wheather it be repeatiable return to zero after removal or actual accuracy of a measured group. This is only if the bedding is done correctly and provides a stress free bed.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing to watch out for is the Bolt Handel should not
touch the stock,especially when closed.
Look carefully for contact marks under the bolt handel.
Made a BIG difference in how my Remmy PSS shot.
Regards,
Steve </div></div>
Don't mean to hijack. . . . How do you fix the bolt knob contacting the stock? Sand? File?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing to watch out for is the Bolt Handel should not
touch the stock,especially when closed.
Look carefully for contact marks under the bolt handel.
Made a BIG difference in how my Remmy PSS shot.
Regards,
Steve </div></div>
Don't mean to hijack. . . . How do you fix the bolt knob contacting the stock? Sand? File?
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Okoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing to watch out for is the Bolt Handel should not
touch the stock,especially when closed.
Look carefully for contact marks under the bolt handel.
Made a BIG difference in how my Remmy PSS shot.
Regards,
Steve </div></div>
Don't mean to hijack. . . . How do you fix the bolt knob contacting the stock? Sand? File? </div></div>
You only need .050" clearance, about the thickness of a matchbook cover. Sanding, filing, and careful application of electic or air rotary sanders (Dremel) are also appropriate. Most fiberglass stocks have an outer layer that you may grind through; don't panic, just remove a little of the filler from the hole, add some Devcon, JB Weld, or even Bondo. Finally, touch up the spot with paint on a q-tip if needed.
A word on bedding blocks: as was mentioned in another post, all bedding blocks are not equal, even within the same manufacturer, and variances occur in the dimensions of some types of actions. Depending on the installation, the action may be stressed when you torque the reciever screws. You can tell if this is the case by watching the bottome steel; if one end lifts when you tighten the other end, you've got a potential source of inaccuracy. Bedding blocks themselves are really only a quickie manufacturing solution to proper pillar bedding; in proper pillar bedding the pillars extend from the reciever base to the bottom steel in such a manner that there is minimal to no stress on either one when the reciever screws are tightened. Bedding block stocks often have intervening fiberglass between the bedding block and the bushing that screws tighten against, causing potential POI shift with differing torque values. A passive fit reduces the effects of torque on point of impact; this was the brilliance behind the AICS system; with proper pillar bedding, you can almost ignore torque values.
Questions about contact: the barrel should not contact the stock unless it is intentionally bedded. Some shooters and stockers will bed a heavy contour barrel 4" or so in front of the action. The rear tang of the action should not rest agains bedding material unless it is designed to be a recoil lug. The only portion of the recoil lug to contact the bedding is the rear face; the sides and front should all be relieved by masking these surfaces prior to bedding. Bolt handles should not contact the stock (Steve made a good point about looking for rub marks: a bolt may not contact when a round is chambered, but may contact during firing if there is any firing pin spring wrap that is released when the trigger is pulled. Get rid of the rub marks). Also, magazines should not contact the stock if possible, and finally but most hard to see, reciever screws should not contact the insides of the pillars or bedding blocks.
Other than that, it's a piece of cake.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Okoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One thing to watch out for is the Bolt Handel should not
touch the stock,especially when closed.
Look carefully for contact marks under the bolt handel.
Made a BIG difference in how my Remmy PSS shot.
Regards,
Steve </div></div>
Don't mean to hijack. . . . How do you fix the bolt knob contacting the stock? Sand? File? </div></div>
You only need .050" clearance, about the thickness of a matchbook cover. Sanding, filing, and careful application of electic or air rotary sanders (Dremel) are also appropriate. Most fiberglass stocks have an outer layer that you may grind through; don't panic, just remove a little of the filler from the hole, add some Devcon, JB Weld, or even Bondo. Finally, touch up the spot with paint on a q-tip if needed.
A word on bedding blocks: as was mentioned in another post, all bedding blocks are not equal, even within the same manufacturer, and variances occur in the dimensions of some types of actions. Depending on the installation, the action may be stressed when you torque the reciever screws. You can tell if this is the case by watching the bottome steel; if one end lifts when you tighten the other end, you've got a potential source of inaccuracy. Bedding blocks themselves are really only a quickie manufacturing solution to proper pillar bedding; in proper pillar bedding the pillars extend from the reciever base to the bottom steel in such a manner that there is minimal to no stress on either one when the reciever screws are tightened. Bedding block stocks often have intervening fiberglass between the bedding block and the bushing that screws tighten against, causing potential POI shift with differing torque values. A passive fit reduces the effects of torque on point of impact; this was the brilliance behind the AICS system; with proper pillar bedding, you can almost ignore torque values.
Questions about contact: the barrel should not contact the stock unless it is intentionally bedded. Some shooters and stockers will bed a heavy contour barrel 4" or so in front of the action. The rear tang of the action should not rest agains bedding material unless it is designed to be a recoil lug. The only portion of the recoil lug to contact the bedding is the rear face; the sides and front should all be relieved by masking these surfaces prior to bedding. Bolt handles should not contact the stock (Steve made a good point about looking for rub marks: a bolt may not contact when a round is chambered, but may contact during firing if there is any firing pin spring wrap that is released when the trigger is pulled. Get rid of the rub marks). Also, magazines should not contact the stock if possible, and finally but most hard to see, reciever screws should not contact the insides of the pillars or bedding blocks.
Other than that, it's a piece of cake.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
id use glass
id use glass
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
I'm not a gunsmith. I've bedded some inexpensive 22s and have improved shooters out of them but I haven't messed with bedding centerfire rifles yet. I've heard (and trust with my life with) the opinions of many great builders here on the hide and elsewhere who continue to state that they hands down prefer McMillan stocks over HS stocks. Some of them flat out hate HS, others say HS are ok but MCM much better. They are the pros at what they do and they are correct when they say a round reciever requires glass/marine tex etc.... type of bedding to make the action stress free fitting in the stock when the screws are tightened! Also pillar bedding in conjunction with glass bedding is preffered to just glass bed by itself. I have also read of several Army snipers saying that their rifles were darn friggin accruate in the hs stock without any bedding! They tended to all hate the adj LOP of the HS stocks on issue rifles but the aluminum block was great and easy to take apart, clean and return to zero! I hate to say this but I think comparing factory fitted(remignton) hs stocks on "custom shop" production M24 rifles to aftermarket stock "drop-in-fit" is apples to oranges-almost.
The reason I say this is, well in theory the fitting of round reciever to a "rounded-out-to-match" alum bedding block always always always will be imprecise. However I wonder if Remignton building M24s for the military, they more methodically hand-pick actions that most closely fit the "ideal" dimensions the HS stocks are machined to. I've heard that HS stocks possibly are precisely machined to an "ideal" of M700 action that simply doesn't exist-why; because the outside surface of a production grade reciever doesn't really matter as mutch as the interior operating surfaces. So the average m700 action be vary greatly in fit to HS stock(hence glass bed needs) however if Remington meticulously sorts through actions looking for the most ideal actions for fitting HS stocks, it may be that such ideal actions are used in Gov't issue M24s and therefore(maybe still not perfect) are far better than what the average civie will be dealing with. In short, if you feel the need to go aftermarket with HS for your particular rifle, go do so and you'll probably get a better shooting rifle after the fact. However I tend to enjoy HS stocked guns mainly if they came stocked HS from the factory. And even more so I SPECULATE Remington's custom shop would sort through actions that best fit the HS bedding block so as to mimize stress on the action.
Sorry for the long explanation but this is my theory as to why many McMillan lovers(military or LE or civie) hate hs stocks where conversely many military or police Snipers uding HS stocked "custom shop" rifles love them for accuracy and ease of maintnance. It may all come down to aftermarket HS stock fit on random recievers verses "custom," hand-picked recievers fitedt at Remington's shop.
I will agree with many McMillan lovers that McM stocks absorb recoil better, are stiffer/denser(solid)/heavier, and better ergonomics. Yes I've heard of folks having issue with HS stocks getting cracked shells and lossing sling studs etc., I've also heard of broken McM stocks as well. Maybe McMillan overall still stronger with "lovingly" hand built-up fiberglass. Gotta love the molded in camo and smooth satin finish too!
One more thing, I believe the only way to not have to worry about glass bedding a rifle and still building a virtually stress-free action is to make it all a simple solution! I may be wrong but I believe the best actions(that don't twist in stock) are flat bottom actions! If you take a flat bottomed action and mate it to a flat topped chassis or bedding block, this is ideal as its so much easier to tolerance a flat surface than it is to tolorance a round shape! If your chassis is simply parralel and square along the top plane, and has minimal distortion "valleys" along the surface area; and similarly the bottom of the reviever is forged and machined to the same tolerances as best can be square with flat-top chassis, you would have an easier time getting the fit stress-free! Is this not what compitition shooters and Accuracy International have been using for decades!
I still love the round Remington reciever though!
I'm not a gunsmith. I've bedded some inexpensive 22s and have improved shooters out of them but I haven't messed with bedding centerfire rifles yet. I've heard (and trust with my life with) the opinions of many great builders here on the hide and elsewhere who continue to state that they hands down prefer McMillan stocks over HS stocks. Some of them flat out hate HS, others say HS are ok but MCM much better. They are the pros at what they do and they are correct when they say a round reciever requires glass/marine tex etc.... type of bedding to make the action stress free fitting in the stock when the screws are tightened! Also pillar bedding in conjunction with glass bedding is preffered to just glass bed by itself. I have also read of several Army snipers saying that their rifles were darn friggin accruate in the hs stock without any bedding! They tended to all hate the adj LOP of the HS stocks on issue rifles but the aluminum block was great and easy to take apart, clean and return to zero! I hate to say this but I think comparing factory fitted(remignton) hs stocks on "custom shop" production M24 rifles to aftermarket stock "drop-in-fit" is apples to oranges-almost.
The reason I say this is, well in theory the fitting of round reciever to a "rounded-out-to-match" alum bedding block always always always will be imprecise. However I wonder if Remignton building M24s for the military, they more methodically hand-pick actions that most closely fit the "ideal" dimensions the HS stocks are machined to. I've heard that HS stocks possibly are precisely machined to an "ideal" of M700 action that simply doesn't exist-why; because the outside surface of a production grade reciever doesn't really matter as mutch as the interior operating surfaces. So the average m700 action be vary greatly in fit to HS stock(hence glass bed needs) however if Remington meticulously sorts through actions looking for the most ideal actions for fitting HS stocks, it may be that such ideal actions are used in Gov't issue M24s and therefore(maybe still not perfect) are far better than what the average civie will be dealing with. In short, if you feel the need to go aftermarket with HS for your particular rifle, go do so and you'll probably get a better shooting rifle after the fact. However I tend to enjoy HS stocked guns mainly if they came stocked HS from the factory. And even more so I SPECULATE Remington's custom shop would sort through actions that best fit the HS bedding block so as to mimize stress on the action.
Sorry for the long explanation but this is my theory as to why many McMillan lovers(military or LE or civie) hate hs stocks where conversely many military or police Snipers uding HS stocked "custom shop" rifles love them for accuracy and ease of maintnance. It may all come down to aftermarket HS stock fit on random recievers verses "custom," hand-picked recievers fitedt at Remington's shop.
I will agree with many McMillan lovers that McM stocks absorb recoil better, are stiffer/denser(solid)/heavier, and better ergonomics. Yes I've heard of folks having issue with HS stocks getting cracked shells and lossing sling studs etc., I've also heard of broken McM stocks as well. Maybe McMillan overall still stronger with "lovingly" hand built-up fiberglass. Gotta love the molded in camo and smooth satin finish too!
One more thing, I believe the only way to not have to worry about glass bedding a rifle and still building a virtually stress-free action is to make it all a simple solution! I may be wrong but I believe the best actions(that don't twist in stock) are flat bottom actions! If you take a flat bottomed action and mate it to a flat topped chassis or bedding block, this is ideal as its so much easier to tolerance a flat surface than it is to tolorance a round shape! If your chassis is simply parralel and square along the top plane, and has minimal distortion "valleys" along the surface area; and similarly the bottom of the reviever is forged and machined to the same tolerances as best can be square with flat-top chassis, you would have an easier time getting the fit stress-free! Is this not what compitition shooters and Accuracy International have been using for decades!
I still love the round Remington reciever though!
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
Oops sorry didn't realise an old thread.
Oops sorry didn't realise an old thread.
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
its still a good thread. one thing in my savage in an HS with DBM. i used factory and SSS 9 round and Dark Eagle Customs 10 round and they functioned flawlessly before bedding. when i bedded i raised the actions port to the stocks edge so they are flush and when i tried the mags i had the bolt skim over the rounds. i switched to CDI and dont have the issue and the whole thing sounds solid when i cycle the action, not hollow if you know what i mean. it was easy to do. i read the sticky and the three posts thread
its still a good thread. one thing in my savage in an HS with DBM. i used factory and SSS 9 round and Dark Eagle Customs 10 round and they functioned flawlessly before bedding. when i bedded i raised the actions port to the stocks edge so they are flush and when i tried the mags i had the bolt skim over the rounds. i switched to CDI and dont have the issue and the whole thing sounds solid when i cycle the action, not hollow if you know what i mean. it was easy to do. i read the sticky and the three posts thread
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
tag
tag
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
Sounds like a sweet setup than! A freind of mine at a time was looking at the beast single-shot savage target gun with HS stock. He went with one of the low profile varmint guns with laminated stock. The low profile laminated makes for a hell of a beautiful rifle but the stainless single-shot I've heard great things about them!
Sounds like a sweet setup than! A freind of mine at a time was looking at the beast single-shot savage target gun with HS stock. He went with one of the low profile varmint guns with laminated stock. The low profile laminated makes for a hell of a beautiful rifle but the stainless single-shot I've heard great things about them!
Re: Bedding an HS Precision stock?
Not to change the total intent of this thread but I have a HS stock on my Rem 700 PSS I like the way it shoots but the pistol grip is a a little "fatter" than I would like. Can I slim it down and then fill it back with DEVCON texturing it as I finish it with out seriously weakening the stock?
Not to change the total intent of this thread but I have a HS stock on my Rem 700 PSS I like the way it shoots but the pistol grip is a a little "fatter" than I would like. Can I slim it down and then fill it back with DEVCON texturing it as I finish it with out seriously weakening the stock?
my experience was with a savage action. my tang was digging into the stock, the port was below the level of the stock. i drilled holes in the aluminum bedding part and poked the holes with a qtip stick to get the bedding in there and form a lock. i used cheap play doh for the spaces i needed blocked off. i must have waxed the action and barrell 10x, lol. i was able to float the rear tang, center the barrel and get the port level with the stock. it came out east with a few whacks, cleaned up good, looks perfessional. i shared pics here years ago and used the pinned tutorials here on the site
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