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Begginer reloading questions ??

M

micahb

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Minuteman
May 22, 2012
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I need help again guys

I prepped and primed 50 once fired cases last night I only neck sized them

Well I went to sit the bullet in the case to seat it and it just fell right in??
So I tried several more cases and bullets even ones I haven't sized yet there all just loose and fall in freely

The only way they'll hold enough to seat is if i full length size them is this normal?
I'm really only wanting to neck size them but I can't

Thanks
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Are you using a neck bushing die? And if so do you have a neck busing installed in the die?

Terry

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Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: suasponte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you using a neck bushing die? And if so do you have a neck busing installed in the die?

Terry

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Sorry i have no clue about the bushing this is what I'm using

http://www.titanreloading.com/-308-winchester-lee-deluxe-rifle-3-die-set-
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

What die are you using to neck size? You probably should review your process, just a friendly suggestion (and do you have a reloading manual?)
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EXTREMEPREJUDICE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What die are you using to neck size? You probably should review your process, just a friendly suggestion (and do you have a reloading manual?)</div></div>

I'm using the neck sizing collet die the far right one in the pic on that link I posted

Yes I have 3 manuals that I havnt read enough yet.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

When using the collet die, you need enough pressure on the handle to squeeze the neck. Adjust the die into the press so that with a case in the die, you need about 15 to 20 lbs of pressure on the handle of the press. Be sure you take the die apart before you use it; clean it and lube the insides of the die where the collet rubs with a good grease. While you have it apart take the mandrel and try it into the mouth of an unsized case. It should slide in. If you have a micrometer of some sort you can just measure it. It should be close to .305 or less. It is possible that you have an incorrect mandrel or the wrong collet in the die from the factory. Where are you in MS?
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When using the collet die, you need enough pressure on the handle to squeeze the neck. Adjust the die into the press so that with a case in the die, you need about 15 to 20 lbs of pressure on the handle of the press. Be sure you take the die apart before you use it; clean it and lube the insides of the die where the collet rubs with a good grease. While you have it apart take the mandrel and try it into the mouth of an unsized case. It should slide in. If you have a micrometer of some sort you can just measure it. It should be close to .305 or less. It is possible that you have an incorrect mandrel or the wrong collet in the die from the factory. Where are you in MS? </div></div>

Thanks for the help

Philadelphia ms.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EXTREMEPREJUDICE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWdVNg4O98 Also, re-read your instructions on how to adjust your die. You'll figure it out, it's not brain surgery but it is important that you understand what you are doing.</div></div>

Well that was easy enough thanks
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Now that I have 50 primed cases that need sizing again what do I do?
Can you take the deprimer out?
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<span style="font-style: italic">"Can you take the deprimer out?"</span>

Sure can. But that would probably end up with your loose necks far too tight. And lifting the decap rod in your Lee FL die probably won't work well either.

If you want to save the primers you will just have to decap what you have (do it normally) and reinstall them after you get the necks tight. There's no reason reseated primers won't work fine but I wouldn't be comfortable with using them for critical ammo.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

You are a beginner reloader and you want to neck size. Why?
Besides what Lee says, where have you seen empirical evidence that a collet die makes more accurate ammo than a high quality FL die?

Try your FL die and set it up to just touch the shoulder about .001" and see if things don't work out just fine.

Neck sizing is old technology from bygone days when setting up a FL die was for many reloaders a guess and a prayer.
Read what this guy has to say about FL sizing. He knows a thing or two about accurate rifles:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/12/basics-new-brass-preparation.html
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are a beginner reloader and you want to neck size. Why?
Besides what Lee says, where have you seen empirical evidence that a collet die makes more accurate ammo than a high quality FL die?

Try your FL die and set it up to just touch the shoulder about .001" and see if things don't work out just fine.

Neck sizing is old technology from bygone days when setting up a FL die was for many reloaders a guess and a prayer.
Read what this guy has to say about FL sizing. He knows a thing or two about accurate rifles:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/12/basics-new-brass-preparation.html</div></div>

That's the first thing I've read that said always full length size
Everything thing else said to FL size new brass fire firm then neck size I was just doing what I read and what the guy that's teaching me said to do.
The only mistake I made was not reading the instructions on adjusting the die I just adjusted it till it touched like my mentor said
All I had to do was turn it one more round and it was perfect


I actually still haven't seen any true evidence that either one is more accurate
So I will be trying both
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: micahb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


I actually still haven't seen any true evidence that either one is more accurate
So I will be trying both </div></div>

And THAT is why you should FL size. Ammo that functions every time is good ammo. Ammo that may or may not function is useless. I can guarantee if you neck size long enough you will have problems. I can load my ammo and travel 300 miles to a shoot and I know when I get there it will function pefectly. I never have to check my ammo piece by piece for function before I leave the house. I have seen numerous neck sizers come to a match and DNF their card because some or all of their ammo would not function. Some have said in the past its stupid not to function check your ammo. I say it is stupid to have to do so.
I have tried neck sizing several times in 30 years of loading, even with a collet die. It always led to trouble. To each his own. Do as you please sir.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

On neck sizing, if a man understands why he is doing it, no problem. Sometimes, you have to define the term. I use a Wilson neck sizer with a plastic mallet, and a precision bushing after precise neck turning.

Otherwise, I use full length dies, just barely bump the shoulder.

As has been stated, neck sizing with standard neck sizing dies can/might create problems, repetitively. BB

edit: PS that video had an interesting bit toward the last concerning the 40S&W. I do think it is <span style="text-decoration: underline">possible</span> the man was using the neck bushing die without the bushing installed.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Sounds like il be FL sizing !

I have another question

I shot some rounds yesterday and I had a couple rounds that was hard to close the bolt
2 neck sized and 2 FL sized
So the first thing I did when i got back home was check the manual for all the specs and everything was fine
So now I'm stumped
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: micahb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like il be FL sizing !

I have another question

I shot some rounds yesterday and I had a couple rounds that was hard to close the bolt
2 neck sized and 2 FL sized
So the first thing I did when i got back home was check the manual for all the specs and everything was fine
So now I'm stumped </div></div>

Were the hard to close rounds neck sized? No surprise there.
Were the hard to chamber rounds FL sized? Tweek the die down just a smidge more.
Incorrectly setting up your seating die can lead to some horrendous chambering problems. Make sure your seating stem is down in the die far enough to not let the crimping feature come into play. I have seen this cause serious problems just recently, for a new reloader who is a friend. We gave him a class and all is now GTG.
If your brass is exceedingly long you could have problems chambering but it is pretty rare with once or even twice fired brass, so I wouldn't think it would be a factor here.
My experience with the collet die made for hard to chamber, impossible to extract rounds, that were not loaded near max. YMMV
Again there is no clear reason to neck size, ESPECIALLY for a tactical rifle. Neck sizing is a fad from the early days of benchrest that for some reason has made a resurgence among a new crop of reloaders. You have to consider the application when loading. You can leave many of the benchrest techniques to the gamers who play that sport. Many winning BR, F-Class and high power shooters, use FL dies for competition.
Don't worry about your brass. If you FL size correctly your brass will have loose primers before your brass gives up the ghost.

PS: You will have to anneal though, for maximum benefit.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: targaflorio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Measure the overall case length. They might be too long.
</div></div>

I'm good there the only round I had problems with was the shortest ones 2.800
My amax that where 2.910 chambered fine
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

And your bullets could be jamming the lands, but I would assume you had factored that in to the equation. I would start them .015" off the lands.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: micahb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like il be FL sizing !

I have another question

I shot some rounds yesterday and I had a couple rounds that was hard to close the bolt
2 neck sized and 2 FL sized
So the first thing I did when i got back home was check the manual for all the specs and everything was fine
So now I'm stumped </div></div>

Were the hard to close rounds neck sized? No surprise there.
Were the hard to chamber rounds FL sized? Tweek the die down just a smidge more.
Incorrectly setting up your seating die can lead to some horrendous chambering problems. Make sure your seating stem is down in the die far enough to not let the crimping feature come into play. I have seen this cause serious problems just recently, for a new reloader who is a friend. We gave him a class and all is now GTG.
If your brass is exceedingly long you could have problems chambering but it is pretty rare with once or even twice fired brass, so I wouldn't think it would be a factor here.
My experience with the collet die made for hard to chamber, impossible to extract rounds, that were not loaded near max. YMMV
Again there is no clear reason to neck size, ESPECIALLY for a tactical rifle. Neck sizing is a fad from the early days of benchrest that for some reason has made a resurgence among a new crop of reloaders. You have to consider the application when loading. You can leave many of the benchrest techniques to the gamers who play that sport. Many winning BR, F-Class and high power shooters, use FL dies for competition.
Don't worry about your brass. If you FL size correctly your brass will have loose primers before your brass gives up the ghost.

PS: You will have to anneal though, for maximum benefit.</div></div>

2 cases where neck sized and 2 FL sized

All cases where 2.006-2.013

Don't know the head space because I don't have anybody to show me how to do this stuff I'm just doing it slow and safe and reading on here

I just set up my dies per the instructions in the lee set
Which was pretty much adjust it die till it touches lol
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

When I get a chance tonight I will PM you directions on setting up a FL die that is "can't miss" using nothing more than a lit candle, some lube and some patience.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Make a dummy round with the same bullet and case, same specs as your live ammo, just no primer or powder. Check that it chambers freely in your rifle before you leave the reloading bench. If not, screw the sizing die down a little at a time until it chambers without resistance.
Also, buy a RCBS Precision Mic, or similar, to measure headspace.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Chickin is right on the mark. While you are waiting on his info, READ your loading manuals over and over. Heed the instructions and all of the warnings. Don't try to turn a 308 into a 300 magnum. If you want magnum speeds, buy a magnum.
I gave up on neck sizing years ago. I do however use full length bushing dies in SOME of my rifles, but don't go overboard. Use basic dies correctly set up, trim your cases to a uniform length and load according to the loading manuals. You will get good results
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chickin is right on the mark. While you are waiting on his info, READ your loading manuals over and over. Heed the instructions and all of the warnings. Don't try to turn a 308 into a 300 magnum. If you want magnum speeds, buy a magnum.
I gave up on neck sizing years ago. I do however use full length bushing dies in SOME of my rifles, but don't go overboard. Use basic dies correctly set up, trim your cases to a uniform length and load according to the loading manuals. You will get good results</div></div>

We already talked he helped tons !!

I don't care about velocity I just want accuracy

1 quick question tho?

You say trim to uniform length somebody else told me to trim when it gets to long (2.015)
My cases range from 2.005-2.015 so should I trim them all to the shortest or keep them trimmed under 2.015 when needed ??

The spec is 2.005-2.015
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Trim your casings by batch. Lets say your longest cases are set into batch A. Batch B is your mid-length, and batch C is comprised of your shortest brass. Trim each batch to a uniform length. The shortest trim to 2.005. Batch B to 2.009, batch A to 2.012. Or whatever feels right to you.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Jeezoh pete. Just trim them all 2.005. I can't believe you just got advice to trim in three batches to different lengths,....unbelievable. My mind is a whir with Tourette's right now.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Nevermind, I just reread that and you only have 50 rounds for the whole lot? For some reason I had the impression you had ten times that many to work with. Trim all of them to the same length.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfish365</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nevermind, I just reread that and you only have 50 rounds for the whole lot? For some reason I had the impression you had ten times that many to work with. Trim all of them to the same length.</div></div>

I only have 150 pieces of brass at the moment il be getting some more soon.

Speaking of brass

Lapua or Winchester ?
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Depends on how many reloads you want to get out of your casings. Lapua is good for 15 or more reloads. Winchester has a higher capacity for powder though. Each has it's benefits. I prefer Lapua myself.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfish365</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depends on how many reloads you want to get out of your casings. Lapua is good for 15 or more reloads. Winchester has a higher capacity for powder though. Each has it's benefits. I prefer Lapua myself. </div></div>

I ain't real concerned with fps just as long as its accurate up to 600ish yds

I ain't trying to kill a elephant at 1000 yards so no need to push the limits
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeezoh pete. Just trim them all 2.005. I can't believe you just got advice to trim in three batches to different lengths,.... unbelievable. My mind is a whir with Tourette's right now. </div></div>

Uh, calm down. Breathe. Then consider my reasoning. When you have 500 or more cases, you have room to experiment with case length. Different case lengths are known to matter with accuracy, just as OAL is known to matter when adjusting to get the most with a given load. So, that said, you really believe that the shortest case length is the best for what is needed and justifies the storm of less-than-savory thoughts that a mind a whir with Tourettes could come up with? If mag-length is an issue, go shorter. Otherwise, longer is better. Since we're talking about 150 casings, I'd still recommend same length, and in this case that would have to be 2.005" - it's a nice tidy number.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfish365</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeezoh pete. Just trim them all 2.005. I can't believe you just got advice to trim in three batches to different lengths,.... unbelievable. My mind is a whir with Tourette's right now. </div></div>

Uh, calm down. Breathe. Then consider my reasoning. When you have 500 or more cases, you have room to experiment with case length. Different case lengths are known to matter with accuracy, just as OAL is known to matter when adjusting to get the most with a given load. So, that said, you really believe that the shortest case length is the best for what is needed and justifies the storm of less-than-savory thoughts that a mind a whir with Tourettes could come up with? <span style="color: #FF6666">If mag-length is an issue, go shorter. Otherwise, longer is better.</span> Since we're talking about 150 casings, I'd still recommend same length, and in this case that would have to be 2.005" - it's a nice idy number. </div></div>

Busted in red. Go back to reloading 101 sonny jim. Case length has nothing to do with your mag length. Standard trim to length is 2.005. Learn a little more before you offer advice. Experimenting with case length in a 308 is minutia. Advising someone to opt for longer cases without offering them instructions on finding their maximum chamber length is bad advice.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Lapua. Winchester is usually great brass but may need some prep work like deburring flash holes. Uniforming primer pockets if you are into that much detail.
All new brass needs to be FL sized to true up the necks etc.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua. Winchester is usually great brass but may need some prep work like deburring flash holes. Uniforming primer pockets if you are into that much detail.
All new brass needs to be FL sized to true up the necks etc.</div></div>

I've already been deburring and uniforming

How many times can you reload each?

Because if it's not much price difference il go with lapua
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

You have, as yet, to ask after his max chamber length, or any specifics about his rifle either, and overlook in your quote of my post my recommending 2.005" and I guess you like going by Sonny Jim because it sure doesn't fit me as a moniker. Wear it if you want son. To each their own. I'm not here to argue with you sonny, son, Jim or Jimmy boy as it may be. It seems to me micahb appreciated your feedback, he appreciated my input, and he's appreciated everyone else who's chimed in. If you want to spray testerone all over this thread be my guest. I have better things to do with my time.

Good luck micahb, keep us updated about your trials.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Sooo how long should I trim them ? lol


I really appreciate everybody that helps me

I read every post made and look over everybody's opinion and take out of it what makes sense to me and go from there.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=32925/Product/Sinclair-Chamber-Length-Gage

Get one of these for every caliber you load for. They are affordable and can be used over and over.


Wolf you are correct I had told someone else about the chamber length guage. You still didn't explain your slip up tiger.</div></div>

10-4
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Get one of these for every caliber you load for. They are affordable and can be used over and over.


Wolf you are correct I had told someone else about the chamber length guage. You still didn't explain your slip up tiger. </div></div>

The gauge route is one way, I took the cerrocast route to know the exact dimensions of my rifle chambers. You can also have your local smith get these details for you. Yes, this is the first time I've tried giving advice on this subject so admittedly I took it for granted that if he's reloading he's taken care of these details beforehand.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

I have yet to be convinced that trimming brass all to the same length will make a noticeable difference in accuracy. It has to be safe (read short enough) so the neck isn't crimped inside the barrel. And it has to be long enough to hold the bullet. Other than that, if the brass varies between 2.005 and 2.015", does it matter?
After we shoot it and resize it, do we then trim it all to the length of the shortest piece? And do that every time? I don't think so...
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

I bought 250 pieces of 300 win mag Winchester brass to prep. I went to trim and realized my case holder for my Wilson trimmer won't hold unfired cases. I asked Wilson if they made a case holder for new brass. The tech suggested I shoot it at the factory produced length and trim it after it is fire formed. I measured most of the brass, and they all measured under SAAMI spec max length.
 
Re: Begginer reloading questions ??

Targa I agree with you on all accounts. I will say if you get too far out of spec it can affect your neck tensions but I have some questions as to how much really.
 
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