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Berger 155 VLD

KeithR41

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Full Member
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  • Jul 20, 2009
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    Oregon
    I've got a box of .30 155 Berger VLD's. I've read that they do best jammed into the lands. I've seated them as far out as I can and still have them fit into the magazine on my 700PSS. I guess I'm asking, how do I know how far I am from the lands on my rifle.

    Thanks, Keithr41
     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> IME, with the exception of Barnes, the distance from the lands is way down the list on group size factors. </div></div>

    IME Bergers HATE jump and probably the MOST important factor in maximizing accuracy in VLD type bullets is seating depth.
     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    In my 6.5x55 on an 03 action, throated for 160 gr round nosed bullets (built in 1935), I seat Berger VLDs as far out as I can and they are still well off the lands. Still shoots bugholes.

    In any case get the Hornady tool, then you will have the facts you need for any bullet.
     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    I use a sharpie marker on an unprimed/uncharged bullet barely seated into the brass, then seat a little the bullet a bit deeper until the ink (touched up after each seating) comes out with no rifling marks. This will tell you where the bullet seating depth will engage the rifling and a person can seat bullets other at depths to determine which produces the best group size- assuming you haven't reached the end of your barrel cleaning cycle, in which case all of your efforts had been wasted before you start
    ed

    EH
     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    I use a lee collet neck sizing die and put a light squeeze on the neck of an already fired round. Then stick the bullet in and chamber it. I tried doing the other method with a marker, but always seemed to not come out quite right. Like they were pushed further in than what I thought. Eitherway will get u ball park though. and oh yeah 100yd zero doesn't mean much on how well two different rounds will match up down range.(saw another post of yours) One thing to think of two is the barrel whips and vibrates when the round goes off.Different vels, and bullet weights can change at what part of the up/down stroke a bullet leaves the barrel on. A faster bullet can actually have a lower POI than a slower bullet. As an example I had 178 A-max's going 2700 out of my savage that hit about a inch lower than the 175 SMK's goin only 2600fps. So for that reason alone you really cant count on just because they hit the same at 100.Plus things very minor seeming at 100 can make a huge difference at +350yds.


    Good luck
     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    quote from berger web site:

    Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
    Background

    VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

    For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.

    Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

    Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

    Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

    After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”

    We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.

    Solution

    The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

    Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

    Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

    Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

    Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
    1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
    2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
    3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
    4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

    Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
    1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
    2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
    3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
    4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

    Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

    Regards,
    Eric Stecker
    Master Bulletsmith

     
    Re: Berger 155 VLD

    I have had good luck jumping the VLD's in hunting rifles as the about post says to do.