Two questions, 1) does anyone know if the 185 BT LR is stable through transonic flight? 2) Has anyone had an opportunity to play with Bergers new 175 OTM?
-SBS
-SBS
Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
- Thread starter vonbalkenbush
- Start date
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
I don't know of any bullet that is fully stable going trans sonic. I'm playing with their 185 BTLR now nothing past 1000 and not at velocity they are going trans at that range.
I don't know of any bullet that is fully stable going trans sonic. I'm playing with their 185 BTLR now nothing past 1000 and not at velocity they are going trans at that range.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know of any bullet that is fully stable going trans sonic. I'm playing with their 185 BTLR now nothing past 1000 and not at velocity they are going trans at that range. </div></div>
Well, Litz is saying his new 175 (Open Tip Match) is stable during transonic flight and was designed specifically with this in mind. Here's the link:
http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2011/04/13/berger-bulletin-new-30-cal-175-gr-tactical-otm/
Only reason I'm asking is cause I have a great load for the 185's. How's your accuracy at 1k with the bullet starting to go transonic?
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know of any bullet that is fully stable going trans sonic. I'm playing with their 185 BTLR now nothing past 1000 and not at velocity they are going trans at that range. </div></div>
Well, Litz is saying his new 175 (Open Tip Match) is stable during transonic flight and was designed specifically with this in mind. Here's the link:
http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2011/04/13/berger-bulletin-new-30-cal-175-gr-tactical-otm/
Only reason I'm asking is cause I have a great load for the 185's. How's your accuracy at 1k with the bullet starting to go transonic?
-SBS
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
SBS, the 175 OTM may settle back down when going through but it WILL be effected. Google up 'bullet transonic stability' and hit Wiki 'external ballistics' scroll down to 'transonic problem'.
I have not gone past 1000 with the 185's I'm fast enough that not getting close to trans so can't comment.
SBS, the 175 OTM may settle back down when going through but it WILL be effected. Google up 'bullet transonic stability' and hit Wiki 'external ballistics' scroll down to 'transonic problem'.
I have not gone past 1000 with the 185's I'm fast enough that not getting close to trans so can't comment.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
The transonic problem affects some bullets more than others depending on stability properties. Some bullets are transonic stable only at high altitude. The Berger 175 OTM is completely stable at transonic speed at sea level in winter conditions*, which is the reason for the claims for this particular bullet.
*Verified from 1:11.25" twist. Results may vary with slower twists.
I don't know about the 185 BT. It wasn't designed with transonic stability in mind, and I'm not aware of any definitive testing that was done to explore transonic stability in adverse conditions.
-Bryan
The transonic problem affects some bullets more than others depending on stability properties. Some bullets are transonic stable only at high altitude. The Berger 175 OTM is completely stable at transonic speed at sea level in winter conditions*, which is the reason for the claims for this particular bullet.
*Verified from 1:11.25" twist. Results may vary with slower twists.
I don't know about the 185 BT. It wasn't designed with transonic stability in mind, and I'm not aware of any definitive testing that was done to explore transonic stability in adverse conditions.
-Bryan
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
Bryan, so will/should it stay stable hitting transonic say @ 2000' ASL in summer conditions? If it will fly that well in heavy dense air it should. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this.
Bryan, so will/should it stay stable hitting transonic say @ 2000' ASL in summer conditions? If it will fly that well in heavy dense air it should. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
</div></div>
I'm not sure why they put this up, but they are already out for sale at Third Generation Shooting Supply:
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,16755.html/
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
</div></div>
I'm not sure why they put this up, but they are already out for sale at Third Generation Shooting Supply:
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,16755.html/
-SBS
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The transonic problem affects some bullets more than others depending on stability properties. Some bullets are transonic stable only at high altitude. The Berger 175 OTM is completely stable at transonic speed at sea level in winter conditions*, which is the reason for the claims for this particular bullet.
*Verified from 1:11.25" twist. Results may vary with slower twists.
I don't know about the 185 BT. It wasn't designed with transonic stability in mind, and I'm not aware of any definitive testing that was done to explore transonic stability in adverse conditions.
-Bryan </div></div>
Bryan, thank you for taking the time to chime in on this. It is much appreciated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The transonic problem affects some bullets more than others depending on stability properties. Some bullets are transonic stable only at high altitude. The Berger 175 OTM is completely stable at transonic speed at sea level in winter conditions*, which is the reason for the claims for this particular bullet.
*Verified from 1:11.25" twist. Results may vary with slower twists.
I don't know about the 185 BT. It wasn't designed with transonic stability in mind, and I'm not aware of any definitive testing that was done to explore transonic stability in adverse conditions.
-Bryan </div></div>
Bryan, thank you for taking the time to chime in on this. It is much appreciated.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
</div></div>
I'm not sure why they put this up, but they are already out for sale at Third Generation Shooting Supply:
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,16755.html
-SBS
</div></div>
Thanks, I was wanting to try some out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We will not refuse to sell these to anyone who orders them, but understand that this bullet is typically used by a specific group that does not reload, but shoots mostly ready-made ammunition. We are recommending that you do not buy these bullets for resale unless you have customers among these groups who do reload their own ammunition."
They are not restricted, but no one is going to carry them... that sucks!
</div></div>
I'm not sure why they put this up, but they are already out for sale at Third Generation Shooting Supply:
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,16755.html
-SBS
</div></div>
Thanks, I was wanting to try some out.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
Of course man. Just trying to figure out if I wanna switch over to these now or not?....
Of course man. Just trying to figure out if I wanna switch over to these now or not?....
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course man. Just trying to figure out if I wanna switch over to these now or not?.... </div></div>
SB, living in Reno @ 4500' with "winter conditions" not specified I would call Berger and or wait until Bryan chimes in before you make a decision and drop your cash to "switch over". Sure would not hurt to buy a box and play though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course man. Just trying to figure out if I wanna switch over to these now or not?.... </div></div>
SB, living in Reno @ 4500' with "winter conditions" not specified I would call Berger and or wait until Bryan chimes in before you make a decision and drop your cash to "switch over". Sure would not hurt to buy a box and play though.
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
SB, living in Reno @ 4500' with "winter conditions" not specified I would call Berger and or wait until Bryan chimes in before you make a decision and drop your cash to "switch over". Sure would not hurt to buy a box and play though. </div></div>
I probably won't switch right now. My 185's are staying at 1.2 Mach out to 1200 yds. I just always wanna try new stuff and like the "newest, bestest, high speed-low drag" stuff I can get my hands on. Kinda OCD'ish on my part, but we all have things we obsess over. I'll probably buy a box and work up a load and see which one shoots better, the cost per box of bullets is about the same.
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
SB, living in Reno @ 4500' with "winter conditions" not specified I would call Berger and or wait until Bryan chimes in before you make a decision and drop your cash to "switch over". Sure would not hurt to buy a box and play though. </div></div>
I probably won't switch right now. My 185's are staying at 1.2 Mach out to 1200 yds. I just always wanna try new stuff and like the "newest, bestest, high speed-low drag" stuff I can get my hands on. Kinda OCD'ish on my part, but we all have things we obsess over. I'll probably buy a box and work up a load and see which one shoots better, the cost per box of bullets is about the same.
-SBS
Re: Berger 185 BT and new 175 OTM
Sound just like me SB, always looking for that magic bullet/ load combo. Keep us informed.
Sound just like me SB, always looking for that magic bullet/ load combo. Keep us informed.
