Berger 95 VLD ?

[wfjames22]

Ive been searching for a while, but havent really found the answer to my question. I have a new R700 in 243 and I am working on a deer load for it. I have been using 95 NBT's in my other 243 with good results, which is what I will probably use in this one. I have a box of 95 VLD's on hand, but have never shot them in any gun.

To load them to mag length will require them to have about a .030 jump to the lands. Is it going to be a total waste of time trying the VLD's with that much jump? Anyone experienced with these bullets, please chime in. I know all guns are different, but if it works some of the time I might be willing to try it.

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I'll be shooting some 105's this week its a berger they should shoot well.

 

[KaiserNorton]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

As you state, each rifle is different. In my Ruger No.1V (6mm remington), it works.......

The Kaiser

 

[wfjames22]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

Are you seating them to the lands or with a jump? A Ruger No1 is a single shot, correct? So magazine length wouldnt matter. Curious as to your distance from the lands.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

Just run them 2.80 and give them a try. You will probably be surprised how well they shoot. Just loaded up some 140vlds in a 6.5Creedmoor that my brother built for beanfield whitetails and my first 3 shot group (thats all he wanted me to test for, though I tend to test with more rounds in a group) went sub 1.5 inches at 300. The first group at 100 was just a ragged cloveleaf hole. No clue how far they are jumping, but figure a bunch. Most rifles will shoot them just as well as BTs, but you wont know if you dont try em. When you smack a deer with them, the deer is down.

I use the 95vlds in my 243 Tikka and kill several deer a year with it. None have taken a step after being hit with that bullet. DRT.

 

[Clark]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I have lots of 243s but have not tried my box of 95 gr VLD, because all my 243s are 10" twist.

I have a 6mmBR with 8" twist that could do it.


read this thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2010369

 

[paul T]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

My 24in 1 in 10 twist 243 shoots clover leaf sized groups at 100y with the 95g Berger VLDs and N160.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

No, try them out! I am shooting 105's in my .243 and 155's in my .308 and both jump further than .010 to the lands due to magazine length constraints. They are a little more finicky but you can dial them in and when you do they are very good. I start at mag length and when seat .010 deeper in increments. 1:10 will shoot the 95's and the 105's will shoot in a true 1:9 and 1:10's according to Berger.

 

[Clark]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, try them out! I am shooting 105's in my .243 and 155's in my .308 and both jump further than .010 to the lands due to magazine length constraints. They are a little more finicky but you can dial them in and when you do they are very good. I start at mag length and when seat .010 deeper in increments. 1:10 will shoot the 95's and the 105's will shoot in a true 1:9 and 1:10's according to Berger. </div></div>

I am looking at the Berger website, and the target and the hunting 95 gr want 9" twist.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/All%20Bullets.html

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I have shot alot of 95-100gr factory ammo in my savage with a 1-10 twist and its lights out. I wanted to get some a-max's from this local reloading store but they were out. So Im gonna try the 105 berger hunting VLD's since this is my hunting rifle as well.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

Clark this is an e-mail from Walt Berger himself when I inquired about 105 load data:

Hi Greg,

This bullet requires a 1-8 twist for proper stabilization but will stabilize in a true 1-9 twist barrel. Many 0.243 Winchesters cartridges have slower twist barrels please provide the twist rate of your rifle. If you have a slower twist the 95 grain VLD will stabilize in the slower twist barrels and is a good deer and antelope bullet.

Walt Berger
Berger Bullets
Technical Advisor

 

[Enios]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

Try them, you will like them. I'm getting under 1/2" regularly with them with 39.7 of RL-17 and 42 gr Imr-4831...I'm shooting them in a 1/10 right at 3000fps with.025 jump...Berger has sent me a copy of all the loads for the 95, 105, and 115 this week to help me start a 243 AI project I've got started...If you would like a load list for the 95's pm and I will get you a copy...If you go to their web site they tell you they have people shooting them .120 of the lands with good results. They give you I think 4 or 5 different seating depths to try now since so many people have had good luck jumping them...

 

[mtscott]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I have some experience with the Berger 95 VLD. They can be seated to a COAL that allows them to be used in standard magazines and still provide acceptable hunting accuracy. I have found loading them to a moderate velocity works best with the shorter COAL.

 

[Clark]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

This is like the Kennedy assassination evidence not converging.

There are multiple posters on multiple forums saying they have tried it and that 95 gr VLD will work in 10" AND others saying it won't work.

That sure is a mystery.
Yeah, it sounds super-hard.

 

[diriel]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I think part of why some folks report it working for them might be attributable to ASL and Velocity combination. The higher ASL the easier it is for a bullet to stabilize. Also add in temperature, the higher the temp the easier it is to stabilize a bullet, in general. You take that 10 twist barrel shooting the 95 VLD stable all day every day at 5000 ASL @ 85F, then go to Alaska in the dead of winter at -20f, about 300 ASL, and see how stable it is

It makes a HUGE difference.

So, in reality, the answer is It Might Be Stable for YOU, under your local conditions. But then for others with different conditions, it may suck. Hence - "it's not stable". Stable would indicate you can take it anywhere, anytime, and shoot well with it. Always some kind of compromise someplace.

Good shooting,
Gary
P.S. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
link is to JBM stability calculator. Can be fun to play with. For a bullet to Be Stable it should have between 1.3 and 2.0 stability index.

 

[Enios]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is like the Kennedy assassination evidence not converging.

There are multiple posters on multiple forums saying they have tried it and that 95 gr VLD will work in 10" AND others saying it won't work.


That sure is a mystery.
Yeah, it sounds super-hard.

</div></div>

Here a copy paste of what I got from Berger on the 95 grain bullet....

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hi Terry,
What bullet were you trying to shoot in your 0.223 Remingto? We are working on a reloading manual but it is not completed we anticipate it being ready the spring of 2010 if all goes OK. The 95 grain VLD bullet requires a 1-10 or faster twist and the 105 grain VLD requires a 1-8 or faster twist and it will not be stable in a factory twist barrel. Have sent you load data for the 95 grain bullet and it is a very good deer and antelope bullet. Load data was generated using Quick Load a 24 inch barrel a COAL (cartridge over all length) of 2.710 inches and your COAL and velocity could be a little different.
<span style="color: #FF0000">AS WITH ALL RELOADING APPROACH THE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION AS ALL RIFLES AND RELOADING TECHNIQUES WILL BE DIFFERENT. If YOU CHANGE ANY OF YOUR COMPONENTS; THIS INCLUDES DIFFERENT POWDER LOT NUMBERS; YOU MUST REFIGURE YOUR LOADS BY STARTING WITH THE MINIMUM LOAD.</span>
If we can be of any additional help feel free to contact us.
Thanks for your interest and have a great day.

Walt Berger
Berger Bullets
Technical Adviser
</span>

 

[500grains]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I heard that when Sportsman's Warehouse went bankrupt, they stiffed Berger for over 1 mil. Maybe that is untrue. But the whole bankruptcy thing and leaving vendors holding the bag makes me want to shop elsewhere.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is like the Kennedy assassination evidence not converging.

There are multiple posters on multiple forums saying they have tried it and that 95 gr VLD will work in 10" AND others saying it won't work.

That sure is a mystery.
Yeah, it sounds super-hard.

</div></div>

 

[fireguyty]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I loaded the 95 VLD in my Win M70 with a 1-10" 22" barrel. It shot a 5 shot 100 yard group at .6 with Win 760 at 3000 fps and a .02 jump to the lands. In my seating depth test the best depth was at the lands, but closely followed by .02". .02" allowed mag loading and so that is what I went with.

I hunt with Berger bullets in my .204, .223, and .243. I have been very impressed with the bullet entering and never exiting while still providing a clean kill. So far I have claimed coyote, antelope, and a mule deer with these and all have not made it more than 15 feet.

Try em for sure.

 

[steve123]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diriel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think part of why some folks report it working for them might be attributable to ASL and Velocity combination. The higher ASL the easier it is for a bullet to stabilize. Also add in temperature, the higher the temp the easier it is to stabilize a bullet, in general. You take that 10 twist barrel shooting the 95 VLD stable all day every day at 5000 ASL @ 85F, then go to Alaska in the dead of winter at -20f, about 300 ASL, and see how stable it is

It makes a HUGE difference.

So, in reality, the answer is It Might Be Stable for YOU, under your local conditions. But then for others with different conditions, it may suck. Hence - "it's not stable". Stable would indicate you can take it anywhere, anytime, and shoot well with it. Always some kind of compromise someplace.

Good shooting,
Gary
P.S. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
link is to JBM stability calculator. Can be fun to play with. For a bullet to Be Stable it should have between 1.3 and 2.0 stability index. </div></div>

Perfectly stated!

 

[prosise]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I use the Berger 95 vld, 105vld, and the Sierra 107's in my 6br. It shoots real nice but the VLD's wont expand like a Ballistic tip, or soft nose bullet. If you are shooting long range accuracy they are awesome. I have shot them in 1-8, and 1-10 twist barrels (20" barrels) with real good accuracy. My wife Shot in the LSSO a couple years ago with the 105 vld's and placed 13th overall. If you are going to be building up some hunting loads I would highly recomend a hunting bullet.

Like the bullet says, very low drag. Puts a little bity hole in a coyote. Shot a couple with the 95's and had to follow up with a second shot.

Oh by the way, using Varget with the VLD's.

prosise

 

[wfjames22]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: prosise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are going to be building up some hunting loads I would highly recomend a hunting bullet.

Like the bullet says, very low drag. Puts a little bity hole in a coyote. Shot a couple with the 95's and had to follow up with a second shot. </div></div>

I dont want to get into the whole "what bullet for game" argument, but the box says "Excellent for targets, Recommended for hunting" (or something like that).

I finally tried a couple of loads out yesterday and I think that I need to speed them up. 42.2gr of RL22 shot a little less than an inch (5 shots @100yds), but it was only running 2670fps. I only went up to 42.5gr and that group opened up to about 1.5" and ran 2721fps avg. I ran the numbers going up to 2950fps in my calculator and the drops/drifts were not phenominally different by going up 300fps, but would be nice.

Im thinking about trying another powder or two, but work really gets in the way of my range time and rifle season is not far away.

My plan right now is to load up 10 or so of that promising slow load and try bumping the speed up closer to 3000fps (Berger data shows 45.5gr RL22 as max at a little over 3000fps). Any thoughts??

 

[mtscott]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

I used the 95 grain VLDs on antelope a couple of weeks ago. The animal was shot at around 150 yds. The loads were chronographed around 2950. The shot was placed just behind the shoulder, centered a rib and did not exit the opposite side. The antelope ran around 100 yds after being shot. The heart and both lungs were turned to mush. Although the kill was clean and ethical I am not sure I would use the VLDs next year. Berger indicates that what I described is what they intend the bullet to do. I like pass throughs and large exit channels.

"The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the initial expansion, the bullet will shed between 40% and 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organs).

The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area that will be 13" - 15" long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow." Berger Bullets

 

[jeremybowlin]

Re: Berger 95 VLD ?

The 6mm 95gr berger more then likely will work with a 1:10 twist barrel. I believe walt told me the bullet was designed for a muzzle vol of 3200fps max. I would not hesitate to give them a try.
I shoot the 105gr hunting vld in my 243AI and its an excellent bullet. In my opion you cant beat a berger bullet. Im running RL-22 as well good powder for your set up. i would keep going up with your charge and see what it dose. i have noticed in the short time i have loaded a lot of the rifle i have loaded for there will be an accurate load down low go up a little more and the groups would open up. go up one more 1/2 gr and she really tightens up on the groups. I would say your close once ya find it i think you will be really happy with the performance of the bullet.

 

[LoanHarvey]

Hello, I just posted as a new member to this question. I have a new R700 243 CDL in a 9.125 twist. Finally dialed in a load that mine likes with the 95gr Berger VLD Hunting bullet. Mine likes 40.5gr IMR 4350 with a COAL of 2.797. I have shot it out to 888 yards and seen the splash, and have first round hits on steel at 290, 420 and 600 yards. I use Lapua Brass and WLR primers. Hopefully this helps.