Berger No BS BC Podcast Episode 1

[Lowlight]

Part One is up,

The Everday Sniper Podcast: Bryan Litz & Emil Praslick Berger No BS BC Part 1 | The Everyday Sniper

The Everday Sniper Podcast: Bryan Litz & Emil Praslick Berger No BS BC Part 1 Welcome to the Berger No BS BC Campaign feature Bryan Litz & Emil Praslick. At Berger, we are obsessed with the science of ballistics. Consumers share our obsession, yet repeatedly latch-on to each new projectile...

theeverydaysniper.podbean.com

You can include questions from here on the site,

 

[300_BLK]

Looking forward to it @lowlight. Thanks for doing what you do, the site looks great now that you merged!

 

[Dthomas3523]

@lowlight

I posted this question/s on Berger’s FB, but I’ll post it here to so maybe it finds its way into one of the upcoming podcasts:




At the end of the podcast, Bryan started to get into the topic of when you have a known muzzle velocity. But didn’t go too much into it.

Since it’s a hot topic when it does come up, let’s say for example, you are using a magnetospeed or Labradar.

One camp will say “always use this number as it’s a known”

The other side “good starting point, but do what you have to, to make the calculator work.”

Could you guys go into more detail on which side you are on and why when it comes to:

Using a BC (g1 or g7) where you are able to manipulate the MV *and* the BC

Using a custom drag model where you only have the option of manipulating the MV

Bryan’s connection got cut off before he had time to address truing when you don’t have access to transonic ranges. Obviously we know that’s the best practice. But for example, I have ready access to about 930yds.

So, let’s say for the every man, they can find a way to get to a 1k range. All things being equal, with shooter and rifle capable of proper vertical spread needed, how would you specifically recommend truing with:

G1/g7

Custom drag models

Thanks!

 

[Darqusoull13]

Really enjoyed this first podcast @lowlight . I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the series

 

[Chesapeake]

This was actually my first time listening to the podcast and loved it. I have to x2 @Dthomas3523 . I am also very interested in Bryan’s thoughts on trueing when one has a magnetospeed or labradar but can’t quite get the distance to transonic. Thanks for putting out this content.

 

[Rickstir]

Really enjoyed the podcast! Thanks

 

[A&8's]

Great 'cast!!

This is one episode I wish I could get the printed transcript, so I could go back and re-read sections.

 

[BigJimFish]

This podcast had both the best explanation of the difference between G1 and G7 that I have heard and also the best explanation of how trajectory is modeled. Frankly, I was a bit shocked at how limited and mathematically unsophisticated the models that we typically use are. I can now see why Brian is doing this custom drag modeling.

Prior to hearing this podcast it had been operating under the belief that the deviations I always see between the output of ballistic models and my actual results were mostly failings in the BC printed on the box coupled with differences between the DA I used in my calculations (I typically do calculations at home and take print outs to the range vs. futzing with my phone) and the actual DA at time of shooting. I now some of the deviations are likely intrinsic to the mathematical model as a result of it's dependence on comparison with the measured G7 archetype bullet which deviates in important ways from whatever I am using. I can also see that my failure to have success in the subsonic region (distances at which you are subsonic are not so common in Ohio) may not be from the round being unsuccessful at transitioning well to subsonic but rather that the model is so bad after that transition that the splash has not been where I have been looking for it.

I look forward to hearing more about this custom drag modeling as better modeling is certainly desired.

It furthermore seems to me that better general trajectory mathematical models could be created that would allow for substantially more precise predictions without the need for custom individual testing with a long range doppler rig. This may not be able to be done with the current variables of G7, bullet length, bullet mass, twist rate, sight height, and velocity, but given the testing bullet companies do in development, a good deal of trajectory information has been gathered that cannot be summarized in a single G7 value regardless of what velocity you are calculating it at. Perhaps our model should actually include the trajectory of the specfic bullet we are using (as measured during development) in place of the G7 archetype and the deviation between our rifle and the test rifle in terms of twist, and velocity, as the input variables. Sure that means the model would have a shit ton of different trajectories piled up in a giant database but memory and processing are cheap now so that is hardly a downside.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

Loves it.. most of that stuff is covered in his book and more in depth for those looking for a hard copy.

When do we get part 2 ?

 

[Steel head]

@lowlight

I posted this question/s on Berger’s FB, but I’ll post it here to so maybe it finds its way into one of the upcoming podcasts:




At the end of the podcast, Bryan started to get into the topic of when you have a known muzzle velocity. But didn’t go too much into it.

Since it’s a hot topic when it does come up, let’s say for example, you are using a magnetospeed or Labradar.

One camp will say “always use this number as it’s a known”

The other side “good starting point, but do what you have to, to make the calculator work.”

Could you guys go into more detail on which side you are on and why when it comes to:

Using a BC (g1 or g7) where you are able to manipulate the MV *and* the BC

Using a custom drag model where you only have the option of manipulating the MV

Bryan’s connection got cut off before he had time to address truing when you don’t have access to transonic ranges. Obviously we know that’s the best practice. But for example, I have ready access to about 930yds.

So, let’s say for the every man, they can find a way to get to a 1k range. All things being equal, with shooter and rifle capable of proper vertical spread needed, how would you specifically recommend truing with:

G1/g7

Custom drag models

Thanks!

yes to that question!!!

I tend to true with BC with the knowledge that the barrel and Brake/suppressor will effect the BC and I have a Chrony I trust.

 

[Dthomas3523]

yes to that question!!!

I tend to true with BC with the knowledge that the barrel and Brake/suppressor will effect the BC and I have a Chrony I trust.

I don’t want him to contradict his software or anything.

Just an explanation to what we are all doing already.

 

[Steel head]

I don’t want him to contradict his software or anything.

Just an explanation to what we are all doing already.

I get that.
honestly I could be missing something anyways.

Just listened to the podcast and It was answered kinda adequately.

I’m gonna just have to play around with it.


I’m going to play with a speed adjustment vs a BC adjustment, maybe it’s a non issue and it trues the same or close enough with either.

 

[John Glidewell]

This explains it. There are other videos out there too. I always did BC getting velocity on labradar. I did it how they show in video this last week end. Only 15 fps change truing at 1100. In another video it is explained the Kesttel is taking atmospherics into equation. They further went through getting muzzle velocity temps to further true the system.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This explains it. There are other videos out there too. I always did BC getting velocity on labradar. I did it how they show in video this last week end. Only 15 fps change truing at 1100. In another video it is explained the Kesttel is taking atmospherics into equation. They further went through getting muzzle velocity temps to further true the system.

This video is exactly the opposite of answering the questions. And exactly why people keep asking.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I get that.
honestly I could be missing something anyways.

Just listened to the podcast and It was answered kinda adequately.

I’m gonna just have to play around with it.


I’m going to play with a speed adjustment vs a BC adjustment, maybe it’s a non issue and it trues the same or close enough with either.

Just trued up my 6x47 for a match. Of course this time, I used the custom drag curve and my chrono velocity and it lined up dead nuts at 300 600 and 1,000. Zero tweaking involved

109 hybrid @ 2950

I think part of it is how much more consistent the 109’s are.

 

[Steel head]

Just trued up my 6x47 for a match. Of course this time, I used the custom drag curve and my chrono velocity and it lined up dead nuts at 300 600 and 1,000. Zero tweaking involved

109 hybrid @ 2950

I think part of it is how much more consistent the 109’s are.

I’m having similar results with 190 hybrids.
punch in box BC, punch in speed.
Basically no need to true at all and only a slight DSF adjustment at a bit past 2000.
No custom drag curve yet that I know of.