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Besides Spotting Scopes, Binoculars, RangeFinders

bignada

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Minuteman
Sep 30, 2009
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What else is there? In way of "devices" that might relate to observation and spotting, I mean...

Kestrel wind meter?
Is there some new way of rigging a drone to relay wind speed near target? A new device to hack wireless internet at distance and commander with stealth those devices? A gizmo to stealthily activate a cell phone and enable relay of temp and humidity???

Seems like you know how to use a rangefinder or you don't?

Binoculars and spotting scopes have more utility value than the "Great Glass" riflescopes; but don't even whisper that around this board, some sponsor will demand you be banned or shot (just kidding about the hit-order)...

Have never understood the need so many feel to have optic quality, (talking lensatic perfection here) in a rifle sight. Are there that many duty-slotted snipers out there that watch their target constantly all-dialed-in awaiting an order to press the trigger? Does it matter that scope have resolution like a copy-camera at any distance? We talking constant observation of "target" and need for most minimal fatigue?

Probably a good sub-section of the forum.
Would like to see a section on iron sights and backup sight gear. M24 system, Sako TRG 22/42 systems have iron sight systems available. Few other rifles or system designs do... How is it that the HighPower gamers shoot so well in Palma and other iron only events at 1000 yds, since they don't have "great glass" or any glass at all?


My thinking is for sure ass-backwards, but best quality binos make the most sense for me, followed by a quality spotter of at least 65mm with excellent resolution in shadows at 40x or better magnification if zoomable. Being able to scope the shadows is what matters. Mostly its a matter of having a large diameter occular lens, not so much the objective diameter.

Fujinon probably the best quality japanese optics M22 binos and spotter I own are really superb. Yet, my Zeiss bino sets are crisper and lighter, smaller. 8x30 and 10x42 Zeiss are handy and unobtrusive, unlike the 7x50 Fujinon or even more my 8x56 Pentax. Redfield armored spotter is very durable and compares as good or better than Kowa 612 I owned. Fujinon angled spotter 65mm is right there except for image crispness with the $2K+ Zeiss I've handled at retailers.

My scopesight choice will gravitate toward lighter weight units with features that help my shooting, not my "observation" of target. Needs are to have durability, lightweight, reticle design I want, and dependable consistent turret movements. I can shoot with irons, and my focus is nowhere else but on front sight or reticle. Target does not have to be crisp or perfect rendition as long as can ID positively and place reticle with confidence.

It occurs to me that maybe I missed some bruhaha here... Has the great debate about FFP or SFP reticles in spotters warmed up yet?
 
Re: Besides Spotting Scopes, Binoculars, RangeFinders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What else is there? In way of "devices" that might relate to observation and spotting, I mean...

Kestrel wind meter?
Is there some new way of rigging a drone to relay wind speed near target? A new device to hack wireless internet at distance and commander with stealth those devices? A gizmo to stealthily activate a cell phone and enable relay of temp and humidity???
</div></div>
there was is a device mentioned somewhere here that does that, and a rednecked version too, i can't seem to find the link....the "profesional" model is big bucks, i do remember that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Seems like you know how to use a rangefinder or you don't?
</div></div>
yeah, point it at the target, press the button, "whalla".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Binoculars and spotting scopes have more utility value than the "Great Glass" riflescopes; but don't even whisper that around this board, some sponsor will demand you be banned or shot (just kidding about the hit-order)...
</div></div>
have you used the search function, there's alot of stuff on spotters and binos...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have never understood the need so many feel to have optic quality, (talking lensatic perfection here) in a rifle sight. Are there that many duty-slotted snipers out there that watch their target constantly all-dialed-in awaiting an order to press the trigger? Does it matter that scope have resolution like a copy-camera at any distance? We talking constant observation of "target" and need for most minimal fatigue?
</div></div>
'cause when lives are on the line, tasco or BSA is not the first name i think of...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Probably a good sub-section of the forum.

Would like to see a section on iron sights and backup sight gear. M24 system, Sako TRG 22/42 systems have iron sight systems available.

Few other rifles or system designs do... How is it that the HighPower gamers shoot so well in Palma and other iron only events at 1000 yds, since they don't have "great glass" or any glass at all?
</div></div>

1. probably not a "good" one

2. there are other sites (web) that deal more with CQB rifles (not saying a thread can't be created, or not that several dozen already exist)

3. 'cause they can shoot well and choose to train with "opens"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My scopesight choice will gravitate toward lighter weight units with features that help my shooting, not my "observation" of target. Needs are to have durability, lightweight, reticle design I want, and dependable consistent turret movements. I can shoot with irons, and my focus is nowhere else but on front sight or reticle. Target does not have to be crisp or perfect rendition as long as can ID positively and place reticle with confidence.

It occurs to me that maybe I missed some bruhaha here... Has the great debate about FFP or SFP reticles in spotters warmed up yet?
</div></div>

lot of lightweight QUALITY STUFF out there, target has to be crisp (in the context of positively making out the "target" at distance....i don't want to mistake odonnel for osama)

you didn't miss the bruhaha, just didn't look enough for it. most of the guys that use that fancy schmancy spotter stuff knows what works and don't and may take it for granted, and soesn't get mentioned as much as the rifle optics, sure. but most of the fancy schmancy spotting scopes available with special reticles used for a specific purpose that are worth the pack space are really only made by 2 or 3 manufacturese, so ther isn't much debate on them. kinda like starting a debate on the best issued combat boot.


GET THE POPCORN!
 
Re: Besides Spotting Scopes, Binoculars, RangeFinders

Look....


We are talking about "looking", after all...

As far as quality riflescopes go, on this website there is an almost religious dogma: "Thou must usest THE BEST optic thou canst afford"...


My point is "it ain't necessarily so"...

For field use, probably binoculars of highest quality are most critical. Ever use the Govt issue Fujinons? Pretty damn good quality. Not Zeiss, but damn good. Better than Steiner and most everything else. Have not used Swarovski Habicht, but the M22s are better from what I know since each ocular lens is adjustable.

Is any scopesight other than the 72mm objective Hensoldt "as good" as a spotting scope? Doubtful. Spotting scope is made for continual, non-fatiguing observation. Riflescope is not.

Yet... There is that religious dogma mojo working here on the subject of riflescopes....

Leupold Mark 4 fixed or variable is held in pretty low esteem by the dogma believers. The highest dollar scope possible KoolAid is a strong tradition... Gad, don't even talk hear about Burris and how many S&B 3-12x PMII listings have there been that included "gotta have more power"...

Also is amusing that this site purports not to be "political".
How much more "political" does it come than waging war or employing snipers in domestic settings. Chandler brothers wrote about "Death From Afar", should have been death ordered from above...

Point is, being able to place a 300gr Berger on the uniform namebadge of a "target" at 1500yds might be demoralizing to troops/enemy around the dead target; all that matters is making the hit whether enemy dies or is disabled...

Most discussed cartridge on this board is the .308win.
It is really pushing the envelope to purport that it is a 1000yd ctg, even with 175smk or other high BC bullet.

Point is often made that this is not "benchrestershide"... Still the holy grail is precise placement and small groups.
But why? If you can hit target center mass, that is all need be done at any range...

High magnification and utmost clarity (optical perfection) are undeniably nice; but are they necessary or desirable given that they always come in heavier packages.

Still say most critical tool for optical performance is the binocular. Spotting scope is secondmost critical, then comes riflescope, ASSUMING reticle and turret function reliably and overall quality is good. Consider a fixed Leupold mk4 to be above minimum standard of excellence, although the dogma KoolAid drinkers here have many reasons to disagree.

Aperture ironsights will do the job on most military rifles if shooter knows how to use them. Shooter that knows how to use aperture irons will not need to take the hit dumping off a 3-12 PMII, 6, 10, or 12x is all he/she (Sheri Gallagher?) needs to place fire centermass at distance; and can likely do it with sling and shooting jacket...

Not much discussion here about how to use binoculars and spotting scope. This new forum sub-section should be very good. Maybe iron sights of all kinds fit in here as "devices"... Guess any electronic sight would also.
 
Re: Besides Spotting Scopes, Binoculars, RangeFinders

how true,alot of damage can,will,have been done with good binos and aperture iron sights.all the rest is to make poor shots betters shooters.