Best barrel length for .260

RobertB

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  • Aug 20, 2009
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    Oak Grove, Louisiana
    Hi guys. I currently have a 28" barrel on my surgeon .260. Its got a kreiger 8.5 twist tube on it. I have realized that I don't need that long of a rifle. It is to nose heavy and just heavy in general. I shoot the 142 SMK with H4831SC if it matters. What I want to know is the opinions on having the barrel cut down to a shorter length. What is a good length? I have a brake on it now and probably don't really need it, so opinions on that as well. And while we are at it, I got a Savage .308 with a 24" I believe and I'm thinking of having it cut down as well but to a 18-20". Opinion's on that as well if you got em. Fluting might give me trouble on that one. Surgeon is not fluted. Thanks in advance. Advice needed.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Depends on what you want to do with the rifle. Everything is a comprimise. Personally, since I've got a .260 that I plan on stretching it's legs out a bit I went with a 26" tube. I know that there is the group on here that loves shorter barrels, but I'm more of a longer barrel guy (without being too long) for the .260. If I were hunting with the rifle and had to pack it everywhere it might be a different story. I damn sure wouldn't be running around with a Broughton 7.7HV contour either though if that were the case. YMMV.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    One can get some interesting numbers by setting up a spreadsheet to list barrels by bore and then by length and then find the length to bore ratio of each combination of barrel. In the Navy, the length to bore ratio was called the caliber. A three inch fifty rifle had a tube length fifty times the bore, or 150 inches.

    One can use the barrel length or the length of the barrel less the chamber. The length of the barrel less the chamber is the distance in which the projectile is accelerating.

    A twenty inch 308 has proportionately less distance to accelerate than a 264 or 223. I was surprised by how much.

    Our three inch fifties had a very impressive muzzle flash at night. Sort of like the Rem 600 18.5 inch 243 I once had.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    3"-50
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    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys. I currently have a 28" barrel on my surgeon .260. Its got a kreiger 8.5 twist tube on it. I have realized that I don't need that long of a rifle. It is to nose heavy and just heavy in general. I shoot the 142 SMK with H4831SC if it matters. What I want to know is the opinions on having the barrel cut down to a shorter length. What is a good length? I have a brake on it now and probably don't really need it, so opinions on that as well. And while we are at it, I got a Savage .308 with a 24" I believe and I'm thinking of having it cut down as well but to a 18-20". Opinion's on that as well if you got em. Fluting might give me trouble on that one. Surgeon is not fluted. Thanks in advance. Advice needed. </div></div>

    Here's my SWAG:

    <span style="text-decoration: line-through">.308 = 18" barrel
    .264 = X

    My SWAG theory: the trick is that the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">smaller</span></span> diameter hole requires a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">longer</span></span> barrel to get the same efficiency of powder burn <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">without over pressurizing the cartridge</span></span>.

    so,

    .264 ÷ .308 = 0.85714285714285714285714285714286

    18" (.308) barrel ÷ 0.85714285714285714285714285714286 = 21 inch .260 caliber barrel.

    - or -</span>

    I'm full of shit and that was just a complete waste of time. Your guess is every bit as good as mine.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    I run a 18" 308 barrel and was getting a average velocity of 2750ish with 155 scenars

    My 260 has a 24 inch barrel and with 8 twist and running the 140 AMAXs around 2820 fps.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a 18" 308 barrel and was getting a average velocity of 2750ish with 155 scenars

    My 260 has a 24 inch barrel and with 8 twist and running the 140 AMAXs around 2820 fps. </div></div>

    To a certain extent, we are talking apples and oranges with these two bullets. The 308 155 gr scenar has a sectional density of .233 and the 264 140 AMAx has a sectional density of .287.

    Each psi of pressure behind the 140 grain AMAX is having to accelerate more grains of bullet than the pressure behind the 155 Scenar. If a .264 bullet of comparable sectional density to the 155 scenar were used, it would weigh about 114 grains. And it would accelerate to a higher velocity than the 140 grain bullet.

    The 140 grain 264 would retain more of its starting velocity and energy downrange due to better wind cheting shape.

    The 260 Rem has proportionately more powder for the bore than the 308. And the 243 has even more powder proportionately than the 260.

    In any case, as previously stated, it is all compromises between overall weight and handiness of the rifle.

    In my original post, I was just observing that there are some interesting numbers one can get with the different bores and barrel lengths. Intuitively, it would seem that proportions would be relevant. But there are a bunch of other variables involved. The relative powder is not consistent between the 308, 260, and 243.

    In terms of smaller bores needing longer tubes for accelerating, it is true that they have proportionately greater surface area, and therefore more friction against the bore, all else equal in bullet shape. That is why larger bullets have better ballistics. Their surface area doesn't increase linearly with the bore or weight, since the volume (and weight) of the bullet is proportionate to the radius squared. Again, all else equal in terms of bullet shape.

    I've wondered what we would find if we got chronograph figures from some number of Remington 308 LTR's with 20 inch barrels and the same number of Remington 308 varmints with 26 inch barrels, same 1x12 twist, same number of lands, with the same lot of Federal 168 grain gold medal match. Or, get ten 26 inch varmint barrels, and cut off two inches at a time, going down to 16 inches.

    And that's enough math from me for one night.

    Run what floats your boat.
    smile.gif
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Thanks guys, I am thinking about the 24" for now bbut it is still a few weeks before it goes to the smith. When it was built it was for LR only from the prone position. Now the matches I do are more run and gun and the distance's aren't near as long. I would like the rifle to be as light and handy as possible but still have the qualities of the .260. I know you can't have everything but there is usually a happy median somewhere. On the other note, does anyone think it is a bad idea to go to 18" on the .308? I am all ear's(or eyes on the internet) to know what some of yall think, and again, it is greatly appreciated.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Everyone's entitled to their opinion. For me, the 308 happy medium is closer to 22-24 than 18". More tube length for acceleration, with less muzzle flash and blast. I understand the Savage "short action" is actually not that short, and can take a 30-06 round. It is just shorter than a long magnum action (375 H&H). If you want a shorter rifle, why not a Remington SPS Tactical AAC (1x10 twist) with a replacement stock or an LTR. Or one of the custom actioned sticks?

    But, a 308 barrel length shorter or longer than 22-24 may be just what another person thinks is great. I understand the military is going with a 20 inch barrel on the M-110 KAC rifles. And the F class and Palma guys are going with up to 30 inches.

    I originally inherited my father's 24 in barrel 30-06 which is 44.5 inches long. It was a bit awkward to maneuver in our south Texas box blinds, so I bought the rem 700 22 inch barrel 308 which is 41.5 inches long. Even so, last winter I took two axis deer with the 30-06, being very careful as I maneuvered the rifle in the blind to avoid banging the barrel against the side. Nothing like a sharp unusual noise to relax the deer.

    Your primary use will probably be your primary determinant of happiest barrel length.

    FWIW and IMO.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Depends what/how you shoot... I have a 22" and 27". You give up about 20fps per inch. I personally would never go below 24" again. When you miss the tiny X ring at TBRC by 1" at 1k you will want all the barrel you can get.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    The long barrel is great on the ground shooting long range. But not so good when you go to run and gun, sit, kneel, and carry it around. Trying to get something more handy and not so nose heavy but not give up too much velocity.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The long barrel is great on the ground shooting long range. But not so good when you go to run and gun, sit, kneel, and carry it around. Trying to get something more handy and not so nose heavy but not give up too much velocity. </div></div>

    Robert's points suggest that intended use, field use or bench/prone range use, should determine the length. Or, if both uses are planned, which use takes precedence for a given user when the chips are down.

    Maybe the best of both worlds is a 20 inch barrel with an A1 stock for field use and a heavyweight A5/AICS stock for static/range use.

    The Remington MSR brochure

    http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/pdf/remington_msr-brochure.pdf

    shows 2575 fps for the 175 SMK 7.62 in a 20 inch tube and 2650 for the same load in the 27 inch tube. The higher velocity keeps it supersonic about another 100 meters. Maybe 20 inches doesn't give up that much. Maybe one can't get enough slower burning powder in the 308 win case to make the extra barrel length really worthwhile, velocity-wise. Can some of the more experienced folk enlighten us?

    This thread is helping me refine my thinking on my collection.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Im running a 20" 1:8 barrel on my 260 Kreiger Sendro contour on a Manners T5A with a Elite Iron 8" can,,,,to me I couldnt ask for a better setup! This is my PDog gun with 95gr VMaxes,,,, get allot of Hang time the RPMs are up there with a 1:8 and 95gr bullets really blow the shit out the those PDogs. Built this gun 1.5months ago and already have 650rnds down the tube and its shooting great (Brother and TucsonDave are to blame for that...lol) Barrels to me are like tires on a car when they are worn I replace them, not being very nice to this 260 we shall see how long it last and when its shot out Ill put another 20"er on it, working in a gun shop is a big PLUS!
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    I believe that Terry Cross posted one time that he uses a short barrel .260 (20 inches or so) for everday tactical use and a long barrel (26 inches) for match shooting.

    Is your rifle an everyday tactical rifle or a long range competition rifle?

    I have a 20" .308 for my everyday rifle. If I build another bolt action .260, it will be for maximum range shooting and thus will have a 26" barrel (or longer).

    my ¢2
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    He mostly shoots a .308 but uses a .260 during comps if I'm not mistaken. My .260 is my all around gun. I shoot matches with it but also shoot it daily when I can.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    I had a 26" 260 and cut it back to 22"s after shooting the barrel out. It shot better at 22"s and I lost right at 60FPS by cutting off 4"s of barrel.

    The only thing I noticed was that at 900 and 1000yds the groups did start to open up. This gun was a .5 MOA or under gun all the way to 800yds on a good day. But it would not hold that past 800 and like I said the groups would open up to near MOA at 1000yds and this was everytime I shot it even on the good days.

    I think 24" is ideal for the 260s and have one at 23" (Barrel set back) that is still a hammer at 1000yds with 123s. The above rifle was shooting 140 and 142s. Hope this helps!!
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a 26" 260 and cut it back to 22"s after shooting the barrel out. It shot better at 22"s and I lost right at 60FPS by cutting off 4"s of barrel.

    <snip>

    I think 24" is ideal for the 260s and have one at 23" (Barrel set back) that is still a hammer at 1000yds with 123s. The above rifle was shooting 140 and 142s. Hope this helps!! </div></div>

    What twist do you have in each of your barrels?
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    I had the original factory 260 in a VLS and it had the 1-9 and shot everything very well. I then rebarreled it with a Pac Nor supermatch in 1-8 then won a Kreiger 1-8 and now its on the rifle with over 2000rds down the tube. Its a shooter too. I have a new Kreiger 1-8 sendero contour waiting to go on it.

    I have another one that I had rebarreled with a Bartlein 1-8.5 but I am not as happy with how it shoots compared to my other one. Its a very "Picky" barrel and only likes one load.

    All of my other 260s have shot about anyhting well and some loads extremly well.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Not that this is new on this site but I wanted to comment really quick prior to adding my 2 cents of 260 experience.... it is nice to see shooters weighing the real life pros & cons with barrel configurations rather than going with the heaviest & longest pipe they can get their hands on. Then after reality sets in they realize they are stuck with a front heavy rig that falls off the front rest or cannot be packed on a hike & a whole long list of other cons.

    I have shot a lot of straight 260, enough to experience an entire handful of barrels. I have had great success with a simple 24" & have gone as long as 28" clear down to 20".. mostly longer range shooting of bipod and/or bags & rest.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LHill22250</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that this is new on this site but I wanted to comment really quick prior to adding my 2 cents of 260 experience.... it is nice to see shooters weighing the real life pros & cons with barrel configurations rather than going with the heaviest & longest pipe they can get their hands on. Then after reality sets in they realize they are stuck with a front heavy rig that falls off the front rest or cannot be packed on a hike & a whole long list of other cons.

    I have shot a lot of straight 260, enough to experience an entire handful of barrels. I have had great success with a simple 24" & have gone as long as 28" clear down to 20".. mostly longer range shooting of bipod and/or bags & rest. </div></div>

    (Hit post too soon)

    The 24" kept the gun more maneuverable & had plenty of room to build the velocities I was after from 100-1000 yards. I do like a 26" for out to 1000 in a size heavier contour than say M Palma when primarily shooting from a rest. The 260 sure knocks coyotes hard too!
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    Mine is a bit different than most but with a 15" Lilja 1:8 3 groove I get 2600fps with 139 Scenars and excellent accuracy out to 1000 yards. Just showing ya that short barrels will shoot good and have decent velocity also.
    Topstrap
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    To my mind the use directs the form. Lots of looks good on paper doesnt show up out in the field.

    For prone only work I dont think you can be too big. (My wife is giggling but we will ignore her)

    Up off the ground I like a 20 to 22" barrel in both the 308 and 260.

    Handiness has several factors involved. I have found a bit more wieght in the stock's butt helps balance the rifle for positional work. Most short barrel rifles are still nose heavy and that is the biggest factor in my wobble.

    A few years ago seemed like every comp shooter had a muzzle brake on his 308. I never got on that bus but it was almost a rule to some folks. Quick back on target they'd say. Spot my own round another good one.

    About the only good thing I can find about a muzzle brake on the 260 or 308 is alot of times it does move other shooters a bit more away from you so they dont distract you as much.
     
    Re: Best barrel length for .260

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I have another one that I had rebarreled with a Bartlein 1-8.5 but I am not as happy with how it shoots compared to my other one. Its a very "Picky" barrel and only likes one load.

    All of my other 260s have shot about anyhting well and some loads extremly well. </div></div>

    Has anybody else had this issue with an 8.5 Bartlein barrel?