I apologize if this has been covered before. I've read many threads with different opinions but wanted to ask the hide for advice about my specific requirements. I'm on the market for a new precision rifle after selling my last one in .308 and have the desire to to shoot out to 1500 yards but will mainly keep it within 800-1000. Now I know a .260 can get me there and the other 6.5 and 7mm rounds but I want something that is able to kill big game at extended ranges as well. I reload so wildcat and ammo availability is of little concern to me although I'd like to keep it <1.50-2.00 a round reloaded. Also I plan on purchasing a thunder beast 30p-1 or 30ba in the very near future so I'd like to keep in .300 wm or below. The flatter shooting the better obviously but is also like the ability to take deer, elk, and moose at extended ranges once I've had a couple more years of practice under my belt. The .308 I had did not bother me much recoil wise but also was not really effective past 1000 yards with any real energy. So what should I look for? 6.5x284? 6.5 swede? .300 wsm? 7mm rem mag? I don't mind getting a new barrel turned but would like to keep barrel life >2000 rounds.
- Thread starter generalzip
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300 win, 215 Berger (BC .696) 3000+ fps from a 10 twist 28" barrel and a JP brake. Large game to 1000 deer and antelope to 1300 +. Steel or rocks to a mile plus.
Hard combo to beat no matter how much sugar you sprinkle on the others.
Jeff
Hard combo to beat no matter how much sugar you sprinkle on the others.
Jeff
Anyone shoot 7mm SAUM? I've entertained the idea of .300 wm but wasn't sure if there were other options that shot flatter had less recoil and better barrel life. In know 7 SAUM is a barrel burner too burn heard the recoil is pretty timid and it barely gets pushed in the wind
.300WM is a safe bet to operate within those parameters and it'll be relatively inexpensive to shoot. Paired with some of the newer high BC bullets pushing 3000fps (as Broz mention) makes is a serious but often overlooked contender in the 1000-1500 yard arena.
Zip
I do not own a 7 SAUM but shot a couple of rifles in that caliber, up to 1800, they were both lasers (long actions, 180 gr Berger; you can use these in a SA but you will have to single feed, not the best for a follow up shot. In a SA, you will be better off with shorter COAL, smaller bullets). Very little recoil and, once you establish your dope, shooting a mile is easy with this caliber, both owners were extremely satisfied with their rifles; they shot them up to 2400 yards and hit the target several times. If you do not hot rod your loads, or practice rapid fire on consistent basis, I think your barrel could last up to 2000 rounds but it would be best to talk to a few guys that actually own one.
1500 yards is also 100% within the 300 WM effective range but, as you mentioned, it does kick more.
As far as hunting, some use this rule, some others disagree: .300WM ....400yds deer.....300yds elk....250yds moose and bear. Some will take these games from further out, depends how much they care about a "clean kill" and how good of a shot they are. As it is very much about shot placement, shooters/hunters should know their limits before taking a shot. The 7mm saum will allow LR hunts too but you will also be better off having answers from the ones whom actually hunt with it. What I do know for sure, both calibers will take "bad guys" out of a fight at 1500 yards but there are less worries about a clean kill, most of the time. My rifles are .308 and .338LM, works well too. Hope this helps some; good luck.
Thanks for the info man! Hmmm I might have to do the smart thing and get both.... Would you get 7mm SAUM over say a more popular .260? Or try another exotic cartridge like 5.6 creedmore or 6.5x284?
I have and shoot 7WSM a lot. I also shoot 7 Dakota, and 338LM Improved. I think the key is your statement that the rifle will be used to take game at extended distances. With that in mind, I agree with Broz and Dogtown and would say 300WM is #1, with the 7mm a fairly close #2. I believe my 7 Dakota (180 Berger @ 3,200 fps) will do what the 300WM can do at greater distances than the 300WM can do them, but the expected barrel life is shorter than the 300WM.
I like the 7 SAUM, but finding brass is huge pain (I have been told 300 SAUM brass is fairly easy to find, but 7 SAUM is next to impossible). Personally I would use a full blow 7WSM (or 7/300WSM), long throated to 3.00+ COAL, long action, and run Berger 180s at or close to 3,100 fps. Alternatively, the 7WM is still a darn good cartridge (and the 7/300WM is gaining a following in some corners of the hunting world) and the brass is not overly difficult to find. I like having the larger boiler room on the WSM (and the brass is easier to find) and the 7/300WM. High BC bullet velocity has a price - recoil + barrel wear, its all about the tradeoffs.
Jeffvn
I like the 7 SAUM, but finding brass is huge pain (I have been told 300 SAUM brass is fairly easy to find, but 7 SAUM is next to impossible). Personally I would use a full blow 7WSM (or 7/300WSM), long throated to 3.00+ COAL, long action, and run Berger 180s at or close to 3,100 fps. Alternatively, the 7WM is still a darn good cartridge (and the 7/300WM is gaining a following in some corners of the hunting world) and the brass is not overly difficult to find. I like having the larger boiler room on the WSM (and the brass is easier to find) and the 7/300WM. High BC bullet velocity has a price - recoil + barrel wear, its all about the tradeoffs.
Jeffvn
I have a 7/270 WSM , 7X68 Imp & 6.5 WSM and all great at your range and beyond but if you had to bet money on a shot i would opt for a 7mm everytime as you would have to push big 30's so fast to even get close to a 7mm . IMHO
Regards
Greg .
Regards
Greg .
For big game why not a 300 Norma mag? Take a look at the ballistics with heavy greater than 200gr bullets.
What kind of velocity do you think I could get out of a supressed 24" 10 twist bbl w/that pil loaded to AICS mag lenght?
I think a 338 Edge would be about perfect. Maybe a touch too much bang, but when you get out to 1500 yards or close to it, you will be glad you had the extra poop
You should also look at the 284. Its an excellent long range round. I am only shooting the 162AMAXs and I have shot mine out to a mile. Its a hammer and you will be amazed at how well they shoot and how easy it is to get them to shoot. Plus they are good for 3000rds. So what's not to like!!
I'll second the 284 to 1500 yds.
I shoot the 180 VLD's at 2870 fps.
Super flat trajectory and very little recoil.
You can watch them fly to the target.
I shoot the 180 VLD's at 2870 fps.
Super flat trajectory and very little recoil.
You can watch them fly to the target.
As Broz mentioned, the 215's in a 300wm with a break is a hard combination to beat. My 300wm weighs about 10lbs, I can shoot it all day without any problem and I'm not the biggest guy around.
I personally shoot a 7WSM. This is a GREAT cartridge, very flat shooting, better than even the .300WM IMO. I shoot the 162, 175, and 180 super high B.C. bullets. At a 200 yard zero, I only have to dial to 4.6mils to get out to 1000 yards. A .308 would need about 7-8 mils to match that. I'm thinking under 1000 yards, it is flatter shooting than even my .388 Lapua. Over 1000 the Lapua shines, but you can't go wrong with the 7WSM.
I will add the 30-06 to the mix. ive been doing a lot of research on it and with the ability to push 190gr bullets up to 2900fps in a 26" or 2800 in a 24" barrel, it will not go transonic until 1600 or so depending on your elevation and such. get 300 win mag ballistics with a smaller case using less powder.
+1
Or, a 7mm WSM ...with a little sugar sprinkled on it of course. To really make work you have to mix that with cinnamon.
First, I would list out your requirements in order of highest to lowest priority. Are you mostly going to shoot steel at 600-1000 yards? Or are you going to be big game hunting most of the time? If hunting is the main function, you would not want to pack a rifle with a 26"+ barrel. If shooting steel is the main function, you don't want a rifle that will kick the hell out of you. I agree with the posters above when it comes to the .300 WM, it is very hard to beat with 208 grain bullets and above when it comes to energy on target and ballistics. However, you pay the price with recoil. I had (just sold it) a 7mm SAUM with a 25" barrel, I shot mostly 162 Amaxs through it at about 2980 fps. With a break or suppressor you could literally watch the bullet impact targets, very mild recoil. It has pretty much the same trajectory as the WM, and enough energy for ethical shots on pretty much all North American critters. But, it doesn't pack as much energy as the WM. It all comes down to a personal decision that should be based on what your realistic uses for the gun will to be. Unless you want to cover all bases, then just get both.
I really wish FN would make an SPR in 7WSM with a 26" BBL.. it'd be ideal for me.
300wm gets my vote. don't worry about recoil if you are going to shoot the TBAC on it. i shoot a 30p1 on my 26 inch 300wm and the recoil is next to nothing. of course, without can, you can throw a FTE brake on it.
First a question - I've heard 300WM's belted case can be tricky from a reloading / accuracy standpoint. True?
Next, I was gonna go 338 Edge because of the ability to neck up 300RUM brass. Then I learnt 300RUM brass is next to impossible to find, and there's only about 1 source for 338 Edge brass (Bartram) And its more expensive than 338LM brass.
I decided to go with 338Norma Mag. 1x fired surplus brass is available for about $1 / case. Excellent ballistics in 250, 285 and 300 gr boolits. The military is adopting it, so load development and surplus opportunities seem likely.
Lastly, I've heard a lot good about the 7mm Mag family.
Next, I was gonna go 338 Edge because of the ability to neck up 300RUM brass. Then I learnt 300RUM brass is next to impossible to find, and there's only about 1 source for 338 Edge brass (Bartram) And its more expensive than 338LM brass.
I decided to go with 338Norma Mag. 1x fired surplus brass is available for about $1 / case. Excellent ballistics in 250, 285 and 300 gr boolits. The military is adopting it, so load development and surplus opportunities seem likely.
Lastly, I've heard a lot good about the 7mm Mag family.
If you need to resize the belt, it can be very tricky since the die wont touch the belted section of the brass, other than that the 300WM is a great choice. The 300WM can do wonders with 200-215gr, no problem to get to 1500 and beyond. I chose the 338 Edge for ELR, but chose to run the cheaper RP brass. I also looked into the Bartram brass as well as Norma who recently added the 338 RUM brass to their lineup. When you consider the 338 Edge with the 300s is going transonic around 2500 yds depending on your load, its a good choice. Also, discussing barrel life with the barrel maker I went with (Benchmark), they are often seeing upwards of 4K + rounds through the 338s.
Kirk Roberts
I've been reloading the 300wm for many years now and have rarely if ever run into the need of using one of those collet dies that re-size the last little bit at the belt, and I even own one. My primer pockets usually loosen up before I ever have needed to shrink that last little bit of the cartridge.
With the new bullets that are available now it is the perfect combination for many shooters economically and performance wise.
With the new bullets that are available now it is the perfect combination for many shooters economically and performance wise.
+1. I have the collet die as well, but since I made the switch to the Redding S-die I haven't used it in years. I'm pushing the Berger 230 Hyb Tgt @ 2901 fps in my 300WM with a 28" Krieger 1:10"
Anyone here actually have experience shooting long with (and reloading the) 7mm SAUM?
