Hey everyone, I'm looking to get a bolt action rifle that I would do mainly PRS league shooting and some occasional hunting with. I was looking at options like a Springfield Waypoint, Ruger Precision, Seeking Havok PH2. My main question is what would be the best caliber to learn how to shoot long ranger with? I've had some say the .308, some have said the 6.5/6mm/7mm. Just looking for some advice. I have little experience with PRS and long range shooting but I went out to a PRS event and really enjoyed it. Thanks for all the help! Any other advice is more than welcome
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How often will you be shooting and about how many rounds per year?
How often can you afford a $700 barrel?
That will dictate a lot.
How often can you afford a $700 barrel?
That will dictate a lot.
308 will challenge you more, as it’s ballistically inferior to the common 6mm and 6.5mm chamberings while also delivering more recoil. If you like to fight for it, this is your cartridge.
6.5 CM is a great all-around cartridge, with a lot of factory offerings for both match and target ammo. For strictly PRS, I wouldn’t get any other 6.5 cartridge, but I also probably wouldn’t get any 6.5 for strictly gaming. For a crossover round that’s a good hunting cartridge, it’ll serve well, although 6.5 PRC or 6.5 / 7 SAUM are more tailored to hunting.
There are a ton of 6mm cartridges for PRS, I’d look at one that has factory ammo offerings. 6 CM will work, but it has more recoil and shorter barrel life than most others. 6BR is great but can be fiddly in mags, you’ll need mag kits or purpose-made mags. 6GT is also good but you’re stuck with Alpha brass instead of Lapua or Peterson, and I honestly don’t know what factory ammo is out there. Do some shopping, but at the end of the day, any 6mm that’s smaller than 6CM will be the bee’s knees for the game.
6.5 CM is a great all-around cartridge, with a lot of factory offerings for both match and target ammo. For strictly PRS, I wouldn’t get any other 6.5 cartridge, but I also probably wouldn’t get any 6.5 for strictly gaming. For a crossover round that’s a good hunting cartridge, it’ll serve well, although 6.5 PRC or 6.5 / 7 SAUM are more tailored to hunting.
There are a ton of 6mm cartridges for PRS, I’d look at one that has factory ammo offerings. 6 CM will work, but it has more recoil and shorter barrel life than most others. 6BR is great but can be fiddly in mags, you’ll need mag kits or purpose-made mags. 6GT is also good but you’re stuck with Alpha brass instead of Lapua or Peterson, and I honestly don’t know what factory ammo is out there. Do some shopping, but at the end of the day, any 6mm that’s smaller than 6CM will be the bee’s knees for the game.
I go to my local range already every weekend, and I'm not sure what the average amount would be for getting in a good range session so I guess I would do anywhere from 50-75 rounds a weekend. As far as the barrel, I'm not sure on what normal barrel life is, forgive me, but I wouldn't mind changing every other year.
Awesome info, thanks for that. I don't mind working and fighting for it, especially if will teach me lessons in the long run. I would rather do that than have something that just shoots flat from the get-go.
Just go with a 6.5 CM or 308
This thread will likely become a shit show.
But one thing is for certain,
308 shooters will always be better than the 6.5/260 guys.
6.5 CM guys will always ask their boyfriends if 260 was the better choice
260’s will always run faster than 6.5 CM putting shame to claims the 6.5 is the ultimate long range caliber
If you reload - 260
If you don’t reload- 6.5 CM
If your balls have dropped and you want better knockdown power for hunting inside 500 yards - 308
This thread will likely become a shit show.
But one thing is for certain,
308 shooters will always be better than the 6.5/260 guys.
6.5 CM guys will always ask their boyfriends if 260 was the better choice
260’s will always run faster than 6.5 CM putting shame to claims the 6.5 is the ultimate long range caliber
If you reload - 260
If you don’t reload- 6.5 CM
If your balls have dropped and you want better knockdown power for hunting inside 500 yards - 308
Last thing I wanted to start was a shit show, trust me, just wanted to get some opinions. But I really do appreciate the info, seems like .308 is the way to go in my case.
In your case if you plan to shoot prs or something similar I’d go 6.5 over 308. If you were primarily hunting then 308 would get my vote
6.5 CM has become a standard in long range precision. I personally think 260 is better. But if you don’t reload then 6.5 wins hands down
Buy a 6.5 in the Ruger or Seekins and blast away. If you plan to shoot over 700 the 308 isn’t a dog in this fight in my opinion
338 Lapua typically a man's caliber .........
Trust me I would love to go this route, but the league at my range wont allow anything over a .308 (no magnums either)
I own both a .308 and a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'd go the 6.5 Creedmoor for it's reduced recoil and better ballistic profile.
Still comes down to what you prefer.
You will shoot better with what you like.
I'd go the 6.5 Creedmoor for it's reduced recoil and better ballistic profile.
Still comes down to what you prefer.
You will shoot better with what you like.
When it comes to learning, we always suggest a .308. Excellent accuracy in an easily available match load, inexpensive rifles available, modest recoil but enough to make you acquire a good position. It will make you better at fundamental skills like word reading and rangefinding. The hot cartridges like 6.5CM etc will cover up errors, which is great for competition, but it hurts in the long run.
I get people that show up for XLR for example, that shoot just fine with their 26lb 6mm, but the shoddy position that work for the zero recoil system kills them when they get on the .375CT and they have a terrible time fixing it. Wind reads suffer as well.
I get people that show up for XLR for example, that shoot just fine with their 26lb 6mm, but the shoddy position that work for the zero recoil system kills them when they get on the .375CT and they have a terrible time fixing it. Wind reads suffer as well.
Pretty hard to beat the 6.5 and 7mm’s.
I started with a 260 and wore out a few barrels before moving forward to bigger calibers like 7 magnums and 338’s.
One benefit of that was I knew exactly what I wanted and needed when I built up a nice custom rifle.
I started with a 260 and wore out a few barrels before moving forward to bigger calibers like 7 magnums and 338’s.
One benefit of that was I knew exactly what I wanted and needed when I built up a nice custom rifle.
Since you are wanting to shoot precision rifle matches, I would get a 6.5 Creedmoor and be done. It will be competitive, unlike a 308 (so you won't be discouraged, and quit after a match or two), factory ammo is plentiful, barrel life is great, known load data, etc. You can rebarrel to any of the 6's once you cut your teeth.
I would also budget for training to set a baseline. There are tons of us that "knew how to shoot", or "I was in the Army, blah, blah, blah...." that had our asses handed to us at matches until we stumbled our way through things. Don't be one of us, get training right out of the gate and shorten that curve and get rid of bad habits.
I would also budget for training to set a baseline. There are tons of us that "knew how to shoot", or "I was in the Army, blah, blah, blah...." that had our asses handed to us at matches until we stumbled our way through things. Don't be one of us, get training right out of the gate and shorten that curve and get rid of bad habits.
If your not regularly shooting past a mile I’d agree with what you said.
I'm not.
Just bought a B14R to start training on. Actually more excited to get this rig going than many of the center fires I’ve done
6.5 creedmoor
“Abundant” (relative to unicorn farts and unobtainium widget gaskets) factory ammunition and decent barrel life (~2,500 rds)
Less recoil than a 308 Winchester therefore better for spotting trace and impacts.
“Abundant” (relative to unicorn farts and unobtainium widget gaskets) factory ammunition and decent barrel life (~2,500 rds)
Less recoil than a 308 Winchester therefore better for spotting trace and impacts.
Most fun rifle I've ever had
At my home range's 300 yard line
I've had it to 400 yards at Thunder Valley Precision but couldn't tell hits from misses because the paint on the plate what shot completely off.
You need the Magnetospeed target flashers at 400+. Even with a dedicated spotter on a scope.
546 yards (500 meters) is my longest hit w/ .22lr. Flashers are a must have at 500. It's incredibly difficult to spot hits that far unless the paint is fresh.
Grew up with a .22.
So much fun.
So much fun.
Here are your options. The top is a more do-it-all cartridge with more energy, more recoil and easy factory loads. The bottom is better PRS cartridge's lower recoil, less energy and less factory loads. I recommend the 6.5 Creedmoor. I think its better than the 308 due to better ballistics and its proven competitive in the PRS when in the right hands. It'll teach you good fundamentals while keeping up in the ballistics.
308 - More recoil fairly crappy ballistics but its do-able. Its the 1980-2012 cartridge. Older fellas love it because it was new when they started shooting. It works.
6.5 Creedmoor - The sports car version of the 308. Better ballistics, less recoil the new generation of the most versatile caliber. (IMO its replacing the 308)
6 creedmoor - The Ferrari of the Creedmoor. Super fast, light recoil, and accurate as hell... but barrel life is short, its wears out tires (barrels) quickly.
6GT - The affordable version of the Ferrari. Super fast, lighter recoil and accurate as hell with a little longer barrel life than the 6 Creed. Handloaded for now but factory options are coming.
6 Dasher - The custom sports car. You'll have have hand load for it to keep shooting it but its the best combination of recoil, speed and energy for PRS.
6BR and 6BRA - The Oldsmobile cutlass 88. There is nothing fancy about it, but its gotten the job done for a long time and is reliable. (plus hand loading and some factory options)
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Additional options for training.
223 - This round can teach you a lot about shooting, good practice, easy to load and works well out to 600-800yds.
22LR - who doesn't love shooting for 6cents a round. get one to train yourself on trigger pulling.
308 - More recoil fairly crappy ballistics but its do-able. Its the 1980-2012 cartridge. Older fellas love it because it was new when they started shooting. It works.
6.5 Creedmoor - The sports car version of the 308. Better ballistics, less recoil the new generation of the most versatile caliber. (IMO its replacing the 308)
6 creedmoor - The Ferrari of the Creedmoor. Super fast, light recoil, and accurate as hell... but barrel life is short, its wears out tires (barrels) quickly.
6GT - The affordable version of the Ferrari. Super fast, lighter recoil and accurate as hell with a little longer barrel life than the 6 Creed. Handloaded for now but factory options are coming.
6 Dasher - The custom sports car. You'll have have hand load for it to keep shooting it but its the best combination of recoil, speed and energy for PRS.
6BR and 6BRA - The Oldsmobile cutlass 88. There is nothing fancy about it, but its gotten the job done for a long time and is reliable. (plus hand loading and some factory options)
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Additional options for training.
223 - This round can teach you a lot about shooting, good practice, easy to load and works well out to 600-800yds.
22LR - who doesn't love shooting for 6cents a round. get one to train yourself on trigger pulling.
6mm Creedmoor.
"I got the V6 because I knew it'd be better for me than if I had got the V8 before I was ready..." - said no one ever.
"I got the V6 because I knew it'd be better for me than if I had got the V8 before I was ready..." - said no one ever.
“When I need to work on fundamentals, I go back to the 308 because it keeps me honest and shows me where I’m getting sloppy,” said Phil Velayo not too long ago (paraphrased).
.308 is good for keeping shooters honest.
The .308 won't let you lie. My 6BRA and 6.5 Creedmoor let me get away with shit all the time.
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Used to be done with a 30-06 all the time too. Then .308 came about.
Things evolve. The .308 still has its purpose, but for practical shooting, it will go the way of the dodo just as the 30-06.
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You're using one of the more common .308 with one of the less common 6.5. But if you go with the factory information on those, its well over a foot of difference.
But, assuming that was true, that's over half an ipsc. Thats very substantial.
Yeah, the 175SMK at 2600 will drift 22” more (26% more) in a right 10mph wind and 29”more (30% more) in a left 10mph wind than my 140gr HPBT at 2720.
Those are big percentages to improve, especially when you consider the load also delivers less recoil. There’s a reason the 308 is taking a back seat.
Actually, Phil Velayo laid out an interesting stat in one of the MDS podcasts a while back; over the course of his time as an instructor at the schoolhouse, the Marine sniper candidates that shot the 1000yd qual for score had a 1st-round impact consistency of about 30% (they all shoot the 175SMK, obviously; unsure of MV to be fair). These Marines had received weeks of training, and had practiced that same range plenty of times, and still couldn’t get much more than 30% first-round impacts. His point was: that cartridge really isn’t effective at 1k. Hits can be made, but they’re unlikely.
The thing that sometimes gets lost when it comes to this subject is there are other important variables to consider: like gas, and how far away your regular range is, how often can you get there, plus sheer cost of ammo/components?
I'm not against someone learning or starting out with .308... but ammo-wise it costs the same as 6.5CM, and/or 6CM, except with .308 one is going to miss more (not just impacts, but seeing splash too). So if your range is far away and you can't get there as often as you like, and you only have so much money to throw at this, then a more ballistically efficient cartridge will make range trips more fun and add up to more meaningful practice, dollar for dollar, minute for minute, spent.
That's why I recommend 6CM, a factory option for peeps that don't reload yet, costs the same as .308/6.5, but is ballistically sexier and has less recoil than either of them. People will say 6CM is a barrel burner, but that's not true unless you're running the sucker to 3100fps loaded right up on the lands like they did 10 years ago when it showed up on the scene (which most people aren't doing anymore).
That said, if you don't have access to a range that goes out to 800-1000 yards, a .223Rem bolt-gun running 75/77gr bullets is the way.
I'm not against someone learning or starting out with .308... but ammo-wise it costs the same as 6.5CM, and/or 6CM, except with .308 one is going to miss more (not just impacts, but seeing splash too). So if your range is far away and you can't get there as often as you like, and you only have so much money to throw at this, then a more ballistically efficient cartridge will make range trips more fun and add up to more meaningful practice, dollar for dollar, minute for minute, spent.
That's why I recommend 6CM, a factory option for peeps that don't reload yet, costs the same as .308/6.5, but is ballistically sexier and has less recoil than either of them. People will say 6CM is a barrel burner, but that's not true unless you're running the sucker to 3100fps loaded right up on the lands like they did 10 years ago when it showed up on the scene (which most people aren't doing anymore).
That said, if you don't have access to a range that goes out to 800-1000 yards, a .223Rem bolt-gun running 75/77gr bullets is the way.
A good 223 with 88s will surprise you. Really close to the ballistics of a 6.5 and 6mm. Much cheaper to shoot, no recoil to speak of and decent barrel life. Does very good to 1000 yards but hard to spot for and on a decent day has surprised us at Thunder Valley on the mile target. Hardest part will be finding SR primers and Varget, Son found Shooters Precision to be a good replacement for Varget.
I also agree that shooting longrange 22 rimfire is great practice that many overlook. It's all the same whether shooting 22s at 200, 300 even 500 yards or shooting to 1000 yards or shooting a mile target or really stretching it out to 2 or 3 miles. All use the same techniques and learning to use proper equipment to accomplish the same task. It usually just keeps getting more expensive the farther you shoot but it's still the Indian behind the arrow that makes it all happen.
Topstrap
I also agree that shooting longrange 22 rimfire is great practice that many overlook. It's all the same whether shooting 22s at 200, 300 even 500 yards or shooting to 1000 yards or shooting a mile target or really stretching it out to 2 or 3 miles. All use the same techniques and learning to use proper equipment to accomplish the same task. It usually just keeps getting more expensive the farther you shoot but it's still the Indian behind the arrow that makes it all happen.
Topstrap
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This here is why I’m spooling up to run 22BR with that exact bullet.
It depends upon how often you will shoot. Certain calibers go through barrels rather quickly. And, everything you mentioned except the .308 will be expensive to feed, and ammo selection and availability will also be an issue. I have rifles in all the calibers you mentioned. The .308s by far get shot the most. The 6.5 CM spends the most time in the gun case.
Best and Very clear advice!
I have MPA axiom 223. Fueled with 69smk, seriously great. If it’s not wind blown my mat, I’ll shooting 1k yard to 15” plate continues. Really great choice, but need little head scratching!
You can get some information also;https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/08/27/best-rifle-elr-caliber-cartridge/
