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Rifle Scopes Best CQB optics for the price?

ArcticLight

ArcticLight

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 27, 2003
977
68
Silverdale, WA
Girlfriend is building her first AR - she likes my ACOG (Small one, fibre optic, tritium etc)..

But I see that Eotech 511 for sale -

OF the two, or maybe a 3rd MFG - what's a good one for a beginner.

The key for her is wide field of view so she can point, and shoot.

She has a slight loss of use of her left arm so she gets a bit shakey - want something that's on target fast for her..


Thanks,
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

i like a lit 1-4x scope for an M4 myself ..... which one depends on budget. that way you can go 1x for CQB, or crank it up for longer range work. if just CQB consider an aimpoint, again model depends on $ available.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Here's my 2 cents.
I also prefer a 1-4 optic on a Carbine. I would imagine she likes your Acog do to the fast acquisition of the reticle. Then being able to use the leads and hold over's of the Acog. Now for the Eotech it's rather a simple means of framing ones target then taking the shot. The only negatives, no hold over's.

Take a look at the design of the PST 1-4 optic.

1-4x24TMCQ_MRAD_4x_Closeup.jpg


If you'll notice the over all design of the reticle it pretty much resembles a Eotech reticle (circle dot) Slapped on top of a TMR reticle. So in my thinking you would be able to frame close targets, (like a Eotech reticle) but be able to use the descending mil holds for farther shots. Now Sam @ Vortex has said the 1-4 Pst has a very generous eye relief and fast acquisition. That's why he has recommended mounting the 1-4 Pst farther out on the rail, like the Larue Spr-E
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I'm of the mindset that all shots would be made within a 200 yard range - anything further and we move to the bolt gun as the AR's are 16" bbl's - capable of further but why not use a better tool.

Lets see some pics and models on the aimpoint? I was impressed with the last one I saw.

Oops you posted a pic - but I can't see it on my work computer..
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Eotech and aimpoint are both great, but id prob stick with aimpoint so that she never has to worry about changign batteries
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets see some pics and models on the aimpoint? I was impressed with the last one I saw.</div></div>
Here is a link to a good deal on one that I jumped on:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1444377#Post1444377

I like the turn key solution with mount, ARD and flip up caps. There is a good synopsis of the different models further into the thread.

Good luck.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Get the Eotech.

They are extremely sturdy, held up well and never "washed out" even in the extremely bright sunshine of Iraq or Afghanistan. If I were to re-deploy, I'd buy my own Eotech before I flew out.

my $.02
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

i like the eotech myself. I have a 552 and 517. You run a 3x magnifier withe the eotech too.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

EOTechs are great if you need a paper weight in the next year or so. They also work well for something to throw at the wife when you want her to do something.

Now if you want just a sight that works all the time go with an Aimpoint. The T-1 and H-1 are great but a bit pricey for some. After that the M68 is great, tried and true.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I would say eotech, they did have a problem with the battery contacts but that has since been fixed, so my vote would be an eotech with a the magnifier. Theyre faster for multiple targets and I prefer the 1 moa dot for accuracy
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

The Vortex PST 1-4 is made of Unobtanium right now so its kind of pointless to even think about until June or July .

I have used Eotechs quite a bit and really like them . I also like the Aimpoint T1 . The nice thing about a red dot versus a magnified optic is that head position becomes a moot point when shooting from awkward positions so no scope black out . If she can see the red dot she just has to get it on the target and pull the trigger . The Aimpoint has the extreme edge when it comes to battery life .with something like 10-50,000 hours of battery life . My pard just turns his on and leaves it on . Changes the batteries out every January and rocks on .
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I run an EO tech for strictly CQB, an Aimpoint CompM2 for CQB and mid-range, and an ACOG TA01NSN if I don't myself doing much indoors. I like the reliability and simplicity of the Aimpoints, and that it's as good at 300 yards as it is at 3 yards. Still, either an EO Tech or an Aimpoint will probably suit your lady friend just fine, IMO.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I use a leupold CQT which gives you the best of all three. Has a fast dot at 1x power which would allow her to shoot both eyes open. Has a 3x power adjustment to shoot midrange easily to 300 yards. Has an illuminated reticle yet is etched and will also work with no batteries. Built like a tank and has been on my patrol rifle for the last three years and has never let me down. I don't know why these are'nt more popular but I have had all three types of sights (acog,eotech, aimpoint) and continue to search for something better than it for all around use.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

EOTech still has problems. The battery contacts were the biggest problems but allowing the batteries to run inline with the recoil allows them to slam back and forth. This was the initial need for better contacts but it still allows the batteries to be beat to hell and will cause them to leak after prolonged use. The newest EXPS EOTech finally transversly mounted the battery and fixed the problem. The fact that it took them YEARS to address the problem bothers me. Along with the location of the controls.

The myth that the EOTech is faster has been debunked time and time again. The times will drop with training. The EOTech reticle has a reputation of allowing newer shooters to get sloppy with that 65 MOA circle up close and further out obstructs the shooters vision for details.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EOTECH bro, Eotech. Aimpoints are ok, but Eotech's are SO much faster. PM inbound </div></div>

I mean no disrespect but I always find it odd when people say that eotechs are SO much faster... as if it were a fact.

The truth is it's a individual preference, I happen be WAY faster with my aimpoint.

I've had three eotechs and sold them all for aimpoints. I find the eotech reticle to be too busy for my eye, I'd rather have a single dot to focus on rather than a large ring with a dot inside. Plus the eotechs are really large and bulky, not my cup of tea.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

A while back a friend (competent shooter) and myself (somewhat competent) tested the EOTech against the Tijicon reflex sight for speed / accuracy. We worked until dark.

Reflex won and I was surprised how easy I was to hit with the Reflex towards dusk.

We also tested them against open sights and If I remember correctly open sights were slightly faster than the EOTech. Reflex is VERY fast because the ret is VERY big.

What if you forget to turn on your EOTech? Reflex doesn’t need to be turned on. Also during daylight it was VERY easy to see the reticle of the Reflex. At dusk the Reflex reticle was much dimmer but still well visible. Adjustments could be made to the EOTech for conditions

As for low power variables I really like the “ring” type reticles such as that on the Horus AND the Leupold CQT. The human eye automatically wants to make circles concentric so for this reason they are very fast.

However

“I don't know why these aren’t more popular (Leupold CQT)”.

Well because some college indoctrinated liberal marketing guru assumed that “rails” were the current fad and that shooters were susceptible to the same asinine marketing tactics as the rest of the brain-dead public. God forbid Leupold would actually ask the shooting community what they wanted in a scope (or listen). Therefore they covered the scope in RAILS! I am still looking for a stock and a muzzle brake with RAILS to go with my scope mount and scope that has RAILS. Not to mention my RAILS that are attached to my RAILS. Unfortunately they don’t realize that some of us take pride in being independent thinkers.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Wide field of view means Eotech. I have no problem using mine out to 300 meters. So I would say that if the Eotech is considered no faster than the Aimpoint than the Eo is no less usable at longer ranges.

The new mini with the 123 battery setup is on my short list of things to buy this year.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I mean no disrespect but I always find it odd when people say that eotechs are SO much faster... as if it were a fact.

</div></div>


Agree, however it's actually a preference of what they like, not what they shoot better, faster, et al.... Having quite a bit of experience shooting, testing and measuring both, they are both WELL within they sphere of the mass majority of shooters skill. It's always stated that the EO is "faster" up close then an AP. Those who say that fall into one of two categories... Either they are world class shooters or they have never put it to the timer. Every time I/we have had shooters test it the average times are virtually identical between them. As an example, my times on the "2+2+2" drill averages between 1.28-1.30 seconds clean with either one.

I have actually seen that most will shoot an Aimpoint a little faster because you don't have to center anything. As soon as red appears on the target, press the shot. Where some, and I stress <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> might see a difference is shooting groups. Even then it's not as big a difference as most make it out to be, usually .5-1moa difference. And that's true group shooting. As soon as stress/time/etc is involved the difference usually goes away.

When you factor measurable performance differences, battery life, reliability (no matter what some would like to believe- they ain't there yet), and durability, the EOtech loses.

Having said all of that, I run both depending on the use. I'm using an EO XPS for precision, short duration uses, and the Aimpoint for when maximum reliability/durability outweighs the slight advantage in pure shooting I have with an EO. According to the timer, I can run the EO a little "better" for precision shots and it is <span style="font-style: italic">slightly</span> easier to acquire the reticle while wearing kit and shooting in asymmetric positions.

If AP came out with a 2moa dot version of the Micro, it would all but replace my EOtechs. I <span style="font-style: italic">prefer</span> the red dot of death....
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I've taken classes with both an EOTech and an Aimpoint. I've also shot both competitively. I can honestly say that, for me, there is no difference in speed between the two sights.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

On a small CQB weapon I always prefer a Micro Aimpoint or something similar in size. Its small, keeps weight down and you always have the capability to put on a 3X mag and take a little bit longer shots.

I do run on Eotech on my 10.5" AR but it a longer gun overall. My 7.5" was built to stay small and light.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Best CQB optics for the price I'd have to throw in the Aimpoint. Either the M2/ML2 or one of the micros.

It does come down to personal preference so if you have a chance go to the store and check both of them out. (aimpoint and EOtech)
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Aimpoint all the way. I gave in and used an eotech when they came out, but have since went back to the aimpoint.

As for the Leupold CQT. I used one in Iraq and sold it when I got home. It might be good for 3 gun or hitting paper, but it is not a battle optic. The dot is too large to make precise shots and makes zeroing a bitch. Also, the illumination on the reticle is horrible. It washes out in bright light making it useless. If your target is dark and it is bright out, kiss your ability to hit it goodbye. The illum will be nonexistent and the black etched reticle will blend in to the target.

Stay away from the leupy.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I have three Aimpoint T1s, one Eotech 512 and a brand new XPS line for my NV setup. I have had my eyes checked and have no astigmatism. Having said that i really hate the Aimpoint dots. They look like a cluster of grapes or a straight up and down line as it starts to get dark. Forget about any precision on longer shots.

What amazes me is that so many people just blow that off and either blame vision, or whatever. When you are already starting out with a 4MOA "dot" and that "dot" now covers up pretty much your entire target at a 100yards when the sun starts to go down i have no idea where i am shooting. I still like them because they are less than 4oz and great for up close.

If Eotechs could have the battery life of Aimpoint, there would be no competition. I like the Eotech reticle so much better.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Warning sent to SOF ref EOtech 553 Reply with quote
> To all concerned:
>
> The SOPMOD Program Management Office (PMO) is issuing this notice to all
> potential users of the EOTech SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight, NSN
> 1240-01-533-0941,
> also known as the holographic weapon sight.
>
> 1. It was recently brought to the attention of the SOPMOD PMO that there
> exists the possibility that the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight made by EOTech is
> susceptible to failure characterized by the sight shutting off in the
> middle
> of weapon fire.
>
> 2. The failure is caused by faulty battery contacts that were incorporated
> by EOTech without government concurrence. (See attached image). These
> faulty battery contacts are susceptible to wear due to shock while the
> weapon is firing. As a result, the batteries may lose contact, causing the
> sight to shut off.
>
> 3. EOTech has qualified a new supplier of these battery contacts and the
> SOPMOD PMO is currently validating this new configuration through testing.
> By mid April 2008, this process should be complete. At that time, SOPMOD
> will institute a 100 percent replacement of the SU-231/PEQs that have
> already been fielded. Maintenance Contact Teams will travel to field units
> to either swap out the sights with replacements or conduct on-site field
> repairs. As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a
> field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending
> test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field
> replacement
> kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.
>
> 4. The SOPMOD PMO has ordered a halt on any further fielding of this item
> until sufficient testing has been performed on sights with the
> incorporated
> part upgrade. For those field units that have already received the
> SU-231/PEQ, the SOPMOD PMO strongly recommends not using those sights
> until
> they can be replaced or repaired.

Also a 4 hour battery life is useless. I never did any patrols that were shorter than 4 hours.

I cant see why people would like the Eotech reticle better. I felt like it got in the way. What could be easier than a dot for CQB?

Alpha, I have never witnessed my dot looking like a cluster of grapes don't know what to tell you on that one. Also, it is a reflexive CQB sight, not an optic made for long range precision engagements.

 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Aimpoint Comp M3 in 2MOA...both eyes open...enjoy!
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Victory,

What you posted is from 2008. It is two years later. I have never seen 4hrs. The only Eotech i would consider now is the Eotech XPS series which the battery issue has been resolved. Also battery hours are a 1000hrs. Definitely not 50,000 of Aimpoint, but 1000hrs is a lot of hours. Also if you accidentally leave it on after 4-8hrs it shutts off automatically. I am not that lazy that cant change a battery in 5yrs, lol.

But seriously you can search Arfcom where more people use Aimpoints than this site and i am not the only one that sees lines/cluster of grapes with the T1 as light starts to diminish.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Alpha,

Yeah I know it was old, but I still thought it should be posted. I wouldn't want someone buying a used unit to trust their life with.

Is it only with the T1 that you are seeing the clusters, and only during low light?

As for Arfcom, I try not to take advise from a brain trust that is composed of mostly guys who do nothing more with their rifles than take them to the range. I try to listen to those who have to depend on their rifle everyday while in austere conditions. I will say that they are the ones to go to if you want to know what the newest tacticool rifle attachment is though.

I don't know what the new Eotechs are doing now in relation to battery hrs, but the older ones sucked. I am glad they have addressed the issues with their older units.

Having not looked at the Eotechs lately, maybe I need to give them another chance. I do have trouble going back to something that has already left the sour taste of disappointment in my mouth, I try to learn my lessons once.

Cheers
Andrew
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

I have an AimPoint Comp ML3 and like it alot. Full range of view with precision. Bullet goes wherever the dot is, which is the point.

I've just purchased the 3X mag to put behind it for a little extra fun at the range. Pricey, but great functionality. And solid eye candy as well with ARMS/Samson mount!
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Victory,

I know what you are saying. I had an old old Eotech that died with batteries, but even their F revision fixed that. Their new XPS is pretty solid. Also if you use NV equipment the Eotech is much superior because of the open field of view. On my "go to" rifle i initially had a T1 and when i mounted the PVS-14 behind it the sight was pretty crappy with a tunneling effect. Now i have the XPS Eotech and it is 10x better and the dot is crips as anything.

As far as Arfcom, i wasnt saying i take advice from the members there. I am talking about just confirming that they also are seeing clusters or line instead of a crisp dot during low light. I also not aware of T1 being used by any of our boys over seas officially. I know that the Comp4 are but not sure about T1s. I will try to take a picture and post it. I know my camera doesnt have astigmatism lol



This is from Vic from TNVC

Aimpoint in front of PVS-14
AP-T1-NVE.jpg







This is the Eotech in front of PVS-14
PICT0747.jpg
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

We run the Comp 4's on our rifles.

I guess if you are mounting your NVG behind your optic, then the Eotech seems like the way to go. Most of us military guys don't mount our NVGs to our rifles. We don't want to have to point our rifles at what we want to see. Mounting the NVG is a large disadvantage in a CQB environment.

NVG stays on my head with a PEQ-2 mounted for night engagements.
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

My EoTech batteries leaked after less than 300 rounds on my SOCOM II. I have never had any problem with my Aimpoint ML3. Only benefit of the 552 is the 1 MOA dot compared to the 2 MOA dot on the ML3
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

Ok, this is a great post. I would like to add my .02.

I work for the Mesa Police Dept. in AZ. we have approx 800 officers on our dept so we are a decent size dept. We have a ton of AR's and M4's in service and over the years, we have had many (almost one at every qual) eotech's fail. Whether it is for batteries, battery compartments, buttons or whatever they have failed.

In that same time period we have never had one single Aimpoint fail. I am not dumb enough to think that it won't happen some day, but up to now, not one has failed. Our SWAT team will only use Aimpoints because of their track record. Clearing houses is as up close and personal as you can get, and the Aimpoint gets the nod for speed, accuracy, and dependability. Yes, we have had to use our Aimpoints to deploy A**hole repellant and the bad guys have died and we all lived.

Eotech is very proud of their product, and they show it in their price. I would never pay the money for an Eotech when I can pay just as much for an Aimpoint and know it is gonna last and last.

As for the reticle, Aimpoint offers the 2moa and 4moa dot. I trained a lot with the 2moa dot and got used to it. A good deal of people like the 4moa dot for faster site picture because you can find it quicker. Our range suggests the 4 moa. Again our engagements are 200 yards and in for training. The average PD sniper engagement is 70 yards, so you can see what we use our weapons for, not long distance.

Take your pick, but I would only be picking between the 2moa and the 4 moa dot. Not the Eotech or Aimpoint. Again this is not embellished or made up, this is what we have seen as intructors. Good Luck!
 
Re: Best CQB optics for the price?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x.
True 1x
4x for long shots</div></div>

There is no magnified variable optic with "true" 1x. It may be close (ie. 1.1x) however they are not 1x.... fwiw
 
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